Talk:Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario/Archive 1

Requested move - Request Withdrawn

 * The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Request Withdrawn
 * Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario → Ontario PC Party — Requested move to the most commonly known name, which the party uses on its documents, and website. —nattan g 07:55, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose : Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario is still the official name, and its use is far more common in sources—both historical and current. Also best to avoid abbreviations in an article title where possible, in my opinion. Rich Uncle Skeleton (talk) 10:15, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it might be the name that it is registered with Elections Ontario, however, the Ontario New Democratic Party is registered as New Democratic Party of Ontario and yet we use the former as the title of the article. I think its only fair that we use the name that is most commonly used: in the case of this article, it's Ontario PC Party. nattan g 12:26, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * But it's not Ontario NDP. If in doubt, I still think it's best to avoid using abbreviations in article titles, whenever possible. Rich Uncle Skeleton (talk) 22:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Fair use rationale for Image:Pc85.JPG
Image:Pc85.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 17:37, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

John Tory Era (2004 - 2009)
Typo in 1st paragraph, was missing the statement 'as leader' instead of prior text 'leader', alone. Seemed to be missing this part of the article. [Citizen of Ontario, Canada], Responsible-Richard-NQW (talk) 15:19, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

John Tory Leadership Review
The article correctly identifies Rueben Devlin and GrassrootsPC.ca as the prime movers during this period. Nick Kouvalis (principal of Campaign Research, Campaign Manager for Rob Ford) was the founder and driving force of the entire campaign. He was the first to publicly identify himself as opposed to Tory's leadership and begin a "Yes" campaign for a leadership race. Unlike most campaigns of this sort that are usually conducted as whisper campaigns from the backroom, Nick immediately openly declared himself against Tory, launched the website and began organizing. He attended well over 40 delegate nomination meetings across the Province and visited many more ridings drumming up support and volunteers. I designed the Draftaleader.ca website and created all it's content, including videos, for the entire campaign. It was a focal point in the anti-Tory effort, both in terms of messaging and organizing. Rueben's and his groups efforts aligned with the work Kavalis was doing including fundraising and backroom work. The ground work, including a war room setup at the convention coordinating the YES forces was a collaborative effort. 174.92.140.148 (talk) 03:11, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Redirected Big Blue Machine
Hello. I've redirected the Big Blue Machine article to this parent topic because it is entirely without footnotes. I will add the section here if anyone wishes to source it and add it back. Viriditas (talk) 01:20, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Big Blue Machine
The Big Blue Machine was a nickname for the group of strategists and advisors to the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party in Ontario, Canada, in the 1970s and 1980s. The moniker was coined by journalist Claire Hoy of the Toronto Star in April 1971. It has most frequently been applied to Bill Davis' term in office from 1971 to 1985 where his Red Tory government won election after election by promising moderate, well-run government. During that time, the Progressive Conservatives often ran to the left of the Liberals. Davis' period was only a portion of an unprecedented 42 consecutive years of Tory rule in Ontario, and sometimes earlier organizations are also referred to by the Big Blue Machine moniker.

Noted members included Alan Eagleson, William Kelly, Patrick Kinsella, Gerald Nori, Eddie Goodman, Maurice Hughes, Norm Atkins, and Ross DeGeer, John Thompson. The party workers were often accused of being dismissive of the Members of Provincial Parliament they helped to elect, and would sometimes draft legislation without any input from the Tory caucus or cabinet.

The Big Blue Machine lent their expertise to the British Columbia Social Credit Party, enabling the latter to win the election there. The subsequent provincial budget, known as the Restraint Budget, embraced neo-conservative economic policies and concomitant attacks on institutions and issues sacred to the left, touching off the Solidarity Crisis, which nearly led to a general strike in the fall of that year. This group of exported advisors was known as the Baby Blue Machine but the political machine did not last since B.C. Premier Bill Bennett retired in 1986, although Patrick Kinsella stayed on to help engineer the takoever of the reborn BC Liberals from Gordon Wilson and his replacement by current Premier Gordon Campbell. Kinsella was campaign manager in the 2001 and 2005 general elections. His involvement in the sale of BC Rail has raised questions about his apparent lobbying for CN Rail, the purchaser of the crown corporation, at the same time as consulting for the provincial government, the seller. Kinsella has denied the allegations and threatened to sue NDP leader Carole James, and also raised objections to presentation of material concerning his activities in the pre-trial hearings concerning influence-peddling and money laundering by ministerial aides in relation to the sale. The Liberals had lost the 1996 election due to many regions and stakeholders in the province being outraged by the idea, and came to power in 2001 because they promised not to sell it, though immediately set about doing so after the election.

The 1985 leadership convention was the beginning of the end for the Big Blue Machine's influence, as they endorsed Larry Grossman, who was defeated by the more conservative Frank Miller. Under Miller's leadership, the PC Party finally lost power in the 1985 election. Although Grossman won the party leadership after Miller's resignation later in that year, the Big Blue Machine was again marginalized as he took the party to the right in the 1987 snap election.

In the 1990 leadership convention, Dianne Cunningham ran as the choice of the establishment and the Big Blue Machine. She was defeated by Mike Harris in what some saw as an upset, as Cunningham's Red Tory leanings associated her with the unpopular federal Progressive Conservatives under Brian Mulroney. Harris represented the party's right-wing and was not associated with the Mulroney government in the minds of most voters.

Harris embodied a more conservative style, promoting tax cuts and a shift toward the American model of free markets that differed significantly from centrist governance of Bill Davis and the Big Blue Machine. His "Common Sense Revolution" agenda returned the Tories to power in the 1995 provincial election. Many Conservatives MPPs under Harris were openly dismissive of Davis-era spending policies, and frequently highlighted the differences between Davis and Harris on policy issues. Harris' PC's won two elections, though Harris' spending cuts resulted in frequent clashes with public unions and health care waits in Ontario increased. Bad publicity increased about health care waiting periods, and bad publicity from the deaths in Walkerton caused Harris's popularity to decline in his second term. The deaths of seven people in Walkerton, Ontario,while due heavily to Stan Koebel falsifying water safety records, also was found to be partly caused by Mike Harris' deregulation of water quality testing and cuts to the Ministry of the Environment. This in addition to negative publicity about hospital closings for health care restructuring caused Harris and the right-wing of the PC's to become unpopular. The Ontario PC's (led by Ernie Eves, since Harris had stepped down) were defeated in a landslide by Dalton McGuinty's Liberals.

Relationship with Conservative Party of Canada
Surely there should be some explanation of the relationship between the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario and the Conservative Party of Canada. This doesn't appear to be mentioned anywhere, unless I've missed it. Are they parallel organisations, or is one effectively the provincial wing of the federal party? Skinsmoke (talk) 17:34, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080513013431/http://canadianpress.google.com:80/article/ALeqM5ins3OgMvyNcaSGRZ_jCZ5zsk-81w to http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5ins3OgMvyNcaSGRZ_jCZ5zsk-81w

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at Sourcecheck).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 06:59, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=332231
 * Replaced archive link http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kdgfDPwCASkJ:www.elections.on.ca/content/dam/NGW/sitecontent/Compliance%2520Documentation/English/Political%2520Parties/Reserved%2520Political%2520Party%2520Names%2520in%2520Ontario%2520-%2520March%25206,%25202017.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca/ with https://web.archive.org/web/20170703230401/http://www.elections.on.ca/content/dam/NGW/sitecontent/Compliance%20Documentation/English/Political%20Parties/Reserved%20Political%20Party%20Names%20in%20Ontario%20-%20March%206%2C%202017.pdf on http://www.elections.on.ca/content/dam/NGW/sitecontent/Compliance%2520Documentation/English/Political%2520Parties/Reserved%2520Political%2520Party%2520Names%2520in%2520Ontario%2520-%2520March%25206%2C%25202017.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 23:05, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Should change 'centre-right' to 'right-wing'.
Or at least 'centre-right to right-wing'. The party has taken a significant rightward shift with the ascendancy of Doug Ford. The party rejects centre-right policies such as the carbon tax or cap-and-trade. I think the party ideology in this entry should reflect these positions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.15.64 (talk) 01:51, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Added Social Conservatism
I'd say nowadays there are more social conservatives in the party. So I added it to the infobox. You got Sam Oosterhoff who's really anti-abortion, you have Randy Hillier who's just some anti-lockdown conspiracy dude. Even though the PCs support Universal Health Care, they (including Doug Ford) still oppose an increase in minimum wage as well as a carbon tax. I'd argue it's fair to insert SoConservatism as one of their ideologies.  Ak-eater06  (talk) 15:37, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi I've gone ahead and reverted the edits adding social conservative as an ideology. There were no sources given for this addition, and with respect to the points you've mentioned: a lone MPP (Oosterhoff) is not representative of party ideology, Hillier is not even a PC MPP so I don't see how he is relevant, and the minimum wage and carbon pricing are fiscal policies. WildComet (talk) 02:53, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

August 3 reversion

 * I've reverted to an earlier version because the changes this afternoon display the political bias of the anonymous writer. For example, he/she/it changed the comment that Eves was unable to reverse the PC Party's slide in the polls to a suggestion that he caused it. I'm pretty sure that the party was low in the polls before Eves took over. If someone can present evidence to the contrary, I'll happily change my view. The mystery editor should review Wikipedia's policies regarding point of view. Kevintoronto 21:09, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I hate reverting, so I've done a bit of research. The Ipsos-Reid polls (see website link in article) confirms my belief that the slide in the polls occurred before Eves became leader. In fact, the party recovered in the polls during the first few months of his leadership, only to sink again later. I've incorporated some comments along these lines in the article in order to support the 'despite' statement of a previous writer. This also gives a better picture of what was going on during this period.Kevintoronto 18:01, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * I am wondering if you could make one more edit to clarify a minor point. At one point the article says the Eves Tories gained in the polls after the provincial budget; in another it says that the budget cost them support. Is this a contradiction, or are we talking about two different budgets? HistoryBA 23:46, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Good catch. These were two different budgets. I have clarified. Kevintoronto 13:25, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * I have edited further to correct my mistake: the first of those budgets, introduced by Flaherty, was actually the last of the Harris government. Eves' government introduced only the one budget (by Janet Ecker), the 'Magna budget'. The polling data show that that budget did not help the Tories. Kevintoronto 13:09, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

There needs to be more here on the Tories' 42 year dynasty. At present, Leslie Frost and John Robarts don't even get a mention. AndyL 20:42, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Issues with the article
This article as a couple of major issues :

1. The categories list the party as an anti-catholic organization. This is POV at best, if not blatantly false. The party has Catholic members, and having opposed (in the past) government funding for Catholic schools does not make them an anti-Catholic organization.

2. The article needs to clarify that the party is not affiliated to the Conservative Party of Canada, or to parties with similar names in other provinces. David Cannon (talk) 11:18, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Went ahead and removed the anti-catholic category. Article is tagged as needing expansion for the lead and #2 should be addressed when that is done. (Might do it myself if I find the time, if not appreciate if who gets to it is mindful of this.) — WildComet talk 22:45, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

On Frost...
This statement: anti-Catholic, anti-French, anti-immigrant strain of the Tories was evident under Drew and his successor, Leslie Frost, shows obvious bias. This is why people hate wiki.

Need to fill in gaps in list of Tory leaders.

Frank Miller
is not the comic book Frank Miller.
 * I note that the link of former Premier Miller's name leads to the comic book writer and artist Frank Miller. While it would be amusing to think the two men were one and the same, they are not. The former Premier (1927-2000)

New Logo
Hey everyone,

I didn't know if anyone had a copy of the new logo to update the page.