Talk:Progressive rock

Rock Music
This whole article is a misunderstanding of what rock music is in general. Rock is defined as a specific type of music by its structure. So called progressive rock does not exist at all and is a fantasy of the critics who think they understand music. Rock music is defined by the beat of the music and its 'flutter' of the beat. The 'flutter' rotates around the beat and through the music. Progressive rock was a term invented late in the rock music scene I believe as a way to discredit and downplay the significance of the more serious forms of rock music. In classical rock the art achieves greater heights in many instances that anything ever achieved by the classical artists and musicians. This fact is glossed over by the term prog rock. It is usually pronounced by the critics with a drawl and an air of disdain. Classical rock musicians were insulted by Rolling Stone at times saying that they exceeded the worst excesses of the Baroque era, whatever that meant. I don't even think thee authors of the insults knew what they meant. They "just wanted to add chaos to all that order." So, in essence Rock music was gradually destroyed by the critics and producers who thought the public agreed with such critics of the genre as Rolling Stone Magazine and they replaced much of rock with schlock such as punk and ne wave. This articular is a made up fantasy by someone far removed from the scene who has no real understanding of the music at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.146.83.207 (talk) 19:00, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
 * At the time when it was developing, the term progressive rock was not intended "to discredit and downplay the significance of the more serious forms of rock music" or "pronounced by the critics with a drawl and an air of disdain." That came later, specifically with the rise of punk rock, when the progressive bands fell out of fashion. In the late 1960s and early 1970s the term progressive rock was used to distinguish the music from the more "pop" music of the era; although there were prog hit singles, mostly prog was album-based whereas pop was centred around singles. RGCorris (talk) 12:59, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
 * This article has a lot of good referenced info but I think it misses two important points about prog rock.
 * (1) Are Eric Clapton, Dwayne Allman, and Jimmy Page better (or worse) guitar players than Steve Howe and Steve Hackett? No, but they are predominantly blues-based players, appealing to a different audience. In general prog rock eschews the blues. David Gilmore straddles the fence, having been a blues guitarist prior to joining Pink Floyd but there's never going to be a perfect classification system.
 * (2) The rhythm section in prog rock is firmly in the rock camp. Even if you take perhaps the most accomplished prog rock rhythm section, Tony Levin and Bill Bruford, what they did (at least in the early 80s, and with Bruford in the 70s) is not comparable to what Stanley Clarke and Lenny White did for Return to Forever, or what Jaco and Tony Williams brought to the Trio of Doom. Fusion is it's own thing with a jazz rhythm section and does not belong to prog rock. Of course, subsequently Bruford left prog rock behind to become a fully fledged jazz musician, but that was later.
 * I'm just putting this here because I have no references for any of this, just my ears. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjfeuer (talk • contribs) 15:42, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Another person worried about the terminology
I was a teenager in the 70s and lived and breathed this style of music. But the term 'progressive rock' was not one that I ever heard until decades later. The term 'progressive pop' is one I that I first heard in 2023. At the time, this style of music was pretty much universally referred to as 'progressive music'. It was never thought of as a sub-genre of rock and did not exclude music that clearly was not rock. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.254.242.128 (talk) 11:58, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Rush in the 70's
As a fan of progressive rock in general and of Rush in particular, the person who wrote that Rush had top ten albums in the 70's is incorrect. They did not, in fact, reach the Billboard top ten until 1980, when "Permanent Waves" hit the number four spot. Rockislandrocker (talk) 15:27, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Place of origin
Concerning edits of long-standing content by @FMSky.

My perspective on the page’s previous listing of “the United Kingdom and United States” is that the United States should stay, as this reflects the information presented as to the origins of related genres like Experimental rock, Psychedelic rock, and Proto-prog. Both sources (the one FMSky provided and the one I did) emphasize how many of the definitive bands in the Progressive rock genre came from the UK, while also noting American influences. I also now think Germany should get a mention, as Allmusic references Krautrock, a basically identical genre that’s mostly just distinguished by the scene’s German roots. Numerous American groups are named across the Allmusic and Rock & Roll Hall of Fame sources, from The Beach Boys, Jefferson Airplane, The Mothers of Invention, and The Byrds, to Styx, Journey, and Kansas. That’s to say nothing of notable US groups not referenced that were important to the genre, like Frank Zappa, Utopia, Captain Beefheart, and Glass Harp. Threefrgy (talk) 12:07, 20 December 2023 (UTC)


 * It's pretty clear from the cited sources that the cultural origins included US artists:
 * Early Prog Rock was inspired by the long jams, improvisations, and sonic journeys of bands like the Jefferson Airplane, the Grateful Dead, the Byrds, and the Zombies, but the two albums that most directly influenced the birth of the genre were Pet Sounds (1966) by the Beach Boys, and Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967) by the Beatles.
 * That said, it was mostly a UK phenomenon until US artists like Kansas and Styx started copying bands like ELP, Yes, and King Crimson. Which is fleshed out in the article text. So, an argument can be made to only include the UK as the cultural origins, but seems to me that including the US has the better side of the argument. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 21:22, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I would agree. Can you give me your thoughts on the inclusion of Germany at the end? I think Progressive rock is a potentially expansive label that relates to, and could encompass, virtually identical genres like Electronic rock, Jazz fusion, Experimental rock, and Krautrock (which is mentioned in the Allmusic summary). I think the UK, US, and Germany should all three be listed as originating locations. Threefrgy (talk) 22:25, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * My sense is that krautrock developed independently in Germany but simultaneously with developments in the UK and US. Whether that merits inclusion in the lede and the info box is debatable and I don't have strong opinions either way. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 00:10, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, its basically the same as in heavy metal. UK invented it, US was quick to copy it --FMSky (talk) 04:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

2000-2020
I have been trying to improve and expand upon these weak sections but keep getting constant reverts. User:FMSky and User:Binksternet, please explain what you are looking for with the sources. I have tried to summarize events and notable releases of the decades and the bands I mention are included in each source I've referenced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kernelpanic85 (talk • contribs) 14:31, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * for example, in this edit https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Progressive_rock&diff=prev&oldid=1210619443 you added Dream Theater but they are mentioned nowhere in any of the sources you put in -FMSky (talk) 15:16, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * If that is the issue, I can find another source for Dream Theater then. No need to revert then entire edit which I put a ton of work into... Kernelpanic85 (talk) 16:25, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I responded to this pair of edits by you. You cited rateyourmusic.com which is not a reliable source, disallowed at WP:ALBUMAVOID, in violation of WP:USERG. Same with albumoftheyear.com which you cited. Finally, you added a bit about Rush, supported only by stuff found at rush.com. If you want to make a new paragraph, it should have a foundation in WP:SECONDARY sourcing. Binksternet (talk) 22:25, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Also, what is the issue using band websites and setlist.fm to reference the prog rock festivals and cruises? Kernelpanic85 (talk) 18:31, 7 March 2024 (UTC)