Talk:Promise Keepers

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Untitled
Section removed which appears to be an acknowledged copyright infringement. jimfbleak

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Wow! This is a really good advertisement for Promise Keepers. (Mental note: need to expand on and NPOV this article. Please stand by.)  --MTR (&#20005;&#21152;&#21326;) 05:40, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

This Article Needs More On the Section Titled Beliefs
After visiting this article I find almost no information on what the promise keepers believe. Could someone add to that section? This article does not inform me at all.

Hotel room rentals
Where's the stuff about the Promise Keepers-event where a hotel saw a 600% increase in porn rentals during their conference? I'm trying to find out whether it's true or not, so if anybody can help me out I'd be thankful. Mastgrr 22:30, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Probably because it never happened, though you obviously wish it did. FAF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.122.187.234 (talk) 14:34, February 17, 2006

Yea, I don't see why people get so upset about crap like that. This is clearly not an add - the person who wrote it if anything has a bias against it. Who cares, read it - take it for what it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.86.248.1 (talk) 10:21, March 27, 2006

thats a common type of urban legend.there are different varieties, like an increase in alcohol and condom sales in towns where Christian events are held. Rds865 (talk) 18:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Witnessing History
I had the pleasure of attending several Promise Keepers events in the 1990s. My first was 1994 Indianapolis, where the dome sold out 62,500 seats, the largest at that time. It was the most amazing event of my life to that point. The singing was incredible, especially the hymn "Holy, Holy, Holy", and the speakers were right on target for issues that the average man was dealing with in his daily life. Also amazing was how all of us were fed box lunches in surounding parking lots in just 90 minutes; each lunch was half a chicken...that's over 30,000 chickens eaten in an hour and a half!

The greatest event in the 1990s had to be Stand in the Gap, the prayer meeting on the Washington Mall. I was there sitting on the north slope of the Washington Monument watching one of 11 jumbotrons. During the time there was singing and praying for our families and nation. Imagine if you will the sight of hundreds of thousands of men on their knees or laying prostrate on the lawn, many with tears of repentance in their eyes. It is a time I can never forget.

All in all, I attended six stadium events and the Washington Mall event and have been changed because of my involvement during that critical time in my life. I now have an eight year old son whom I hope to take to a Promise Keepers event in the next few years, with the goal that he will grow up to be a man who will keep his promises.

Larry Quicksall--216.176.81.47 02:05, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Good page.
Thanks to whoever created this page! -- Promisekeeper2005 23:30, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Weasel Words
"After more months of prayer, 72 men came together at Boulder Valley Christian Church in Boulder to organize" This paragraph holds no information. please rephrase. When did 72 men come together at Boulder Valley? Instead of "After more months of prayer ...", I'd wish for "On [date] ..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.78.113.17 (talk) 21:12, July 17, 2006

Given that Promise Keepers is a men's movement, are there really people who criticise it's exclusion of women? Really? DJ Clayworth 17:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's possible. There are people who criticise the Boy Scouts for excluding girls. I suppose the best counter is to demand boys be allowed to join the Girl Scouts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.67.93.133 (talk) 06:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

It is kinda crazy how much they hate it, but they do. Rds865 (talk) 18:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

There, hopefully that's less biased
I just did a major overhaul of this article, the guy who wrote the original article was obviously a Promise Keeper himself since he had nothing but glowing praise for the organization --Todeskaefer 21:16, 28 July 2006 (UTC) \

Whoever put that paragraph in about doctrines is obviously one of those arrogant types who feels that only his doctrine is correct. It is precisely this type of sectarian garbage that is the destroying the church in America today and driving away millions of men who are crying out for answers but are afraid of being judged or beat up because of disagreements on a few finer points. What does this person suggest? Interviewing everyone at the door and denying entry to anyone whose doctrine differs slightly from his? Has this person ever even been to a PK event? I've been to several of them and I can tell you that it's a beautiful thing to see thousands of men get together where love of Christ is the only thing that matters and doctrines, demoninations and socio-economic considerations get left at the door.

Also, I'm not sure where the comment about how it's wholly white and conservative came from, but the events I attended were in Florida and there were lots of minorities both on the stage and in the audience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.252.225 (talk)  21:58, October 1, 2006


 * This is an encyclopedia and not a discussion forum or even a place to debate the correctness of doctrine. Since this type of criticism does exist in the public sphere covering it up is irresponsible. --JNZ 11:49, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

i changed the bit at the beginning because i thought it didnt fully explain the whole submission doctrine and felt it would confuse non Christians.

As far as i've understood and been taught women actually want to submit to a man (its part of their curse from eve, go ask a str8 girl if u dont beleive me) but its first the responsibility of a man to lay down his life the Bible says in a way that she will willingly do so.

Similar to how a Christian loves Christ because Christ first loved them and put his money were his mouth is on the cross. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Safetybutton (talk) 11:32, April 13, 2007
 * This is a good point in the discussion to ask a question. One that has nagged me for quite a while.  PK is a "Christian" organization, as stated and generally assumed.  If that is the case, why do the rally's feature prayers offered by Buddists, Native Americans, Muslims, Jews... etc... that's far from "Christian?" I am wondering if Unitarian or Universalist, Zorastian,  or BaHai might provide a better, clearer statement of faith than Christian?   Following doctrinal Christian thought (dogma) is one of "no other Name but Jesus" and "No other God but the Father of Jesus."  Perhaps I was a little perplexed when viewing a televised PK event in Washington DC which televised the prayer to several other gods.   The interesting point to me, which became immediately evident was the Unitarian bent along with a sort of Masonic order twist to it.  Again, I found it interesting, especially in light of what diverse denominational backing this organization has garnered over the years.   One writer persumes conservative backing, unitarian/masonic thought is far from conservative.  If traditionally conservative denominations are backing PK, it is probably in error, or perhaps hitching onto the tail of a comet hoping to gain a meteoric rise which would persumably further their public image and marketing strategies.  The only impression that I can take away from this, is that PK is teaching a doctrine which is all encompassing; Christianity doesn't perscribe to that reasoning, and PK and all the follow on groups supporting it should review there tenant documents and approach this, and other movements with a cautionary view of what is scriptural, and what isn't.  Followers of the Christian ethic would probably do better to stick with what is scriptural NT guidance rather than something as nebulous and off track as PK.  But that's just my 2cents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by  172.135.136.157 (talk)  10:32, May 29, 2007

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"As far as i've understood and been taught women actually want to submit to a man (its part of their curse from eve, go ask a str8 girl if u dont beleive me)"

Uh, no. "Str8" girl here (I believe most people spell that "straight"?) And if you would ask me, I would tell you something much more truthful: that men WANT to believe that women want to submit to them, and men want to make women believe that they want to submit to them. Wanting to submit to someone and wanting someone to submit to you belongs solely to S&M. And if you're into that kind of thing, I won't judge you. But you should know what it is. You dirty bird.

Just thought I'd set you "str8" on this misconception. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdru (talk • contribs) 21:51, May 29, 2007

POV
This article seems to have had most of the substantial criticisms discarded, despite that fact that the Books and Other reference sections cite numerous critical books and aricles. I have tagged this entry for POV. It is basically one-sided.--Cberlet 03:29, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

No problems here
What I find interesting is what actually upsets woman regarding PK. It would appear that it is only the areas around PK encouraging woman to submit. Now whilst I am actually yet to hear a PK speaker say that, and regardless if they do as my wife is a free thinking individual who is encouraged by me to be her own woman, I find it disappointing to see that the woman who are so against PK cannot see past this one issue and look at the good the orginisation is doing around the world. It's a little like me seeing the word lesbian on the National Organization for Women website and go away thinking that all the readers are big fat ugly shemales who can't get a man so go for second best, not that I do think that. Come on, us Christians are forever told to get an open mind, how about taking a little of your own medicine. 203.89.184.91 07:00, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, why can't they get over it? All they're being asked to do is give up their personal freedom and be treated as less than a human being by a man who thinks God justifies his actions! Come on, ladies! GET OVER IT! --70.178.212.159 (talk) 13:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, also, the lesbian thing was also ignorant and rude of you. It would be like someone saying "I saw the word 'Christian' on the Promise Keepers website and all I left with was the impression that they were misogynistic assholes who use their beliefs for their own personal benefit and never for the good of the community. The kinds of people who will fight wars and sign off on the murder of women and children if it's in the name of their God or patriotism. Not that I believe that, or anything." You see what I'm getting at here? --70.178.212.159 (talk) 13:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe the point was that feminists seem to do exactly what you say here, assume that as an organization aimed largely at Christian men it's got to be full of misogynistic, power-crazed bigots who are trying to return women to their "proper place" inferior to men. This would indeed be similar to the assumption he suggested.  He wasn't saying that that's how he saw them, just that that's the negative stereotypes associated with them.  On a separate point, I'd like to see if there are any responses to criticisms and accusations, as I'm sure they've talked about public opinion.  I'm not part of PK, but as I've understood it's largely about trying to become worthy as men.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.45.169.2 (talk) 18:09, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

I wonder when we're gonna get over the pissing match of masculinism and feminism and find some kind of egalitarian balance. Feminism is misandry, and masculinism is misogyny - both do a disservice to the race and the right of individuals to choose their own way. Mason.witt (talk) 00:09, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

rallies
It seems to me the core of the group is it's rallies. I am pretty sure, it is neither a lobbying group or another political organization. Therefore there should be more information on what happens at the rallies. I went to one, and there was a variety speakers, who spoke on several themes, how to be a good husband, how to be a good father, and how to be a good son. There was also worship and a concert by a band composed of father and sons. really the purpose is to make men better, not improve men's place in society. Their exclusion of women could be seen as similar to the exclusion of CEOs as a convention for plumbers. Rds865 (talk) 18:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think people are objecting to the exclusion of women in club membership. I think they are talking about how the organization wants women to be submissive to their husbands and views that sort of relationship as ideal.--70.178.212.159 (talk) 13:34, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Nowhere have I ever heard that PK wants woman to be submissive! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.89.184.68 (talk) 23:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

What's the big deal?
This entry seems fine to me and in alignment with my search on Promise Keepers (which I am not). I have heard of PKs, but could not answer when my wife asked what it was. As an encyclopedia, this entry does a nice job. Are there arguments on scandals and doctrine, sure but that is not what PK seems to be about. Those types of arguments belong in articles not reference materials IMO. Similarly, descriptive text of Christianity should not seek to debate denominational doctrine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.203.223.219 (talk) 01:36, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Ecumenism
There should maybe be information on inclusion of Roman Catholics within Promise Keepers, since this has apparently been controversial among Protestant fundamentalists. It has also been addressed within the USCCB, which urges caution on the matter. . ADM (talk) 20:12, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Promise Keepers Is A Cult
Why isn't Promise Breakers listed under cults? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.215.147.95 (talk)  02:05, June 17, 2009
 * Mainly because it isn't one! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.49.187.78 (talk)  00:59, June 23, 2009
 * Actually it is one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.215.147.95 (talk) 11:45, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should refer to 'cult' in your dictionary —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.49.187.78 (talk) 00:13, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Cult:
 * A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
 * A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

Check, and check! Thanks for pointing out we can use a dictionary to find the definitions of words. Now we can clearly see PK is a cult. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.161.227.70 (talk) 21:04, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Famous Promise Keepers
There should be a list of notable or famous Promise Keepers (celebrities, etc) in this article.
 * Sure, go ahead and add one, but you have to use reliable sources where the individuals identify as Promise Keepers, and they should already have articles to show that they are notable by our criteria. Dougweller (talk) 11:09, 6 August 2012 (UTC)