Talk:Pronoian Made

References added
References added by several national newspapers. They have no archive dating back then, so I can't add a direct link to the article self - should I upload scans instead? Also, should I leave the references missing boilerplate, or should I remove it now, are these references sufficient?--2001:7E8:C625:3101:39D5:5E1C:61D1:9954 (talk) 17:50, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Various
Last name needed for drummer Luc. Does anyone know when exactly he left the band. This was never clearly posted on the bands official homepage. Also, who knows anything about the follow-up project Allmade's Eve? It's not Luceed. Any infos?

I added some of the links that were removed back. I reduced the number to three, which is a better number than previously in my opinion, but I also think these should really be included, as they feature the follow-up project of Pronoian Made, and the two most influential people/organizations/websites that supported or influenced the band. I think these are the most relevant links to this band, not only because of the impact they had on the band, but because they have been relevant to the band for many years.

If you don't agree, please don't just remove the links, discuss it here first, that would be a matter of respect and appreciation. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.207.166.49 (talk) 12:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It's an article about the music group, not about gothic stores and communities. --Ada Kataki (talk) 16:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Ada, why did you then remove the link to the follow-up project of Pronoian Made? If ever there was a relevant link, it was that one, and you removed that one too. I don't think it is a good idea to consider all links as bad. Many people have a "destroy all links" mentality on Wikipedia, resulting in the removal of relevant links. I will not undo your change right away, but I would like to know why you removed the link to Luceed too? Luceed is the direct follow-up project of Pronoian Made, playing the same songs with the same musicians, and you think it's not relevant? I don't really agree with the deletion of the two other links either, but especially this one shows that you did not take any time to really consider if you should remove it or not. --Mister Denial (talk) 22:07, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I didn't remove it. I only reverted the last edit. That's a difference. Feel free to add the Luceed link. --Ada Kataki (talk) 01:59, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I have a question then, would a Pronoian Made page with photos and other stuff from the band be considered interesting or relevant? There are barely any left on the web since pronoian-made.com went offline, and I don't really think it would fit the wiki style to post photos here, yet could they be of interest to anyone researching the band. What do you guys think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.207.166.52 (talk) 09:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

On another note, as I don't wish to get upset over this whole link-deleting issue, I would strongly suggest not to classify Pronoian Made as gothic metal, because of two reasons: the band has been around way before the term gothic metal did surface for the first time, long before Nightwish or Therion, and second, Pronoian Made has alway clearly distanced itself from the metal genre. To quote Oliver Made, the band's lead singer "gothic metal can't exist, as the gothic and metal genres both have opposite ideologies, they're not compatible". So considering that the band is older than the category gothic metal and has clearly distanced itself from metal, I suggest we agree on putting it just in the "gothic rock" category. If no one disagrees, I will make the change in a couple of days.--88.207.139.165 (talk) 23:29, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * They don't play Gothic rock. Gothic rock is a genre of Postpunk music in connection with Psychedelic rock elements. Pronoian Made doesn't use Gothic-rock-typical elements, but Metal elements. It's more an modern Alternative rock style. Furthermore, bands such as My Dying Bride and Paradise Lost were strongly influenced by the music of Fields of the Nephilim, The Sisters of Mercy and Dead Can Dance. Read the interviews of the early 1990s. On the other side, there were bands from the Gothic scene, such as Dreadful Shadows and Love Like Blood, which combined Gothic rock with Metal elements. Forget Nightwish and Therion. They never played Gothic metal, but a style called Symphonic metal. This is not really a gothic-metal-related style. --Ada Kataki (talk) 01:59, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I would consider the music closer to Sisters than Paradise Lost, not only because of the obvious similar drums sound, if you listen to the guitars carefully, they are very similar in many places too in terms of rythm and chord progression. A lot sounds like Vision Thing, and just listen to Temple of Love and compare it to Land of the Night. There are strong connections to Sisters, more than Paradise Lost or My Dying Bride. What more, electronic drum machines are definitely un-metal if you ask me, or most meatalheads, while it is not so uncommon with gothrock bands. About Therion and Nightwish, it is funny, when you say symphonic metal, I think about Rhapsody or Japanese stuff like some X-Japan or the Castlevania soundtrack... ain't that the beauty of labels, there are so many, yet noone can agree on them! ;) --Mister Denial (talk) 09:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Just for info guys, here is a review of the last Pronoian Made relsease that clearly labels them as goth rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.141.133.103 (talk) 20:22, 3 August 2008 (UTC)