Talk:Prostitution in North Korea

Relevance
From second paragraph on, this article is dealing with prostitution of North Korean nationals in the PRC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.34.232.66 (talk) 21:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, and the introduction doesn't fit with the "State Prostitution" claims.--Jack Upland (talk) 00:56, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
 * It doesn't mean that the article is NPOV.Xx236 (talk) 07:33, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


 * The article is messy and contradictory. It is POV to report as fact sensational claims of forced prostitution that are denied by the government.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:19, 26 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I have removed the tag as forced prostitution is not reported as fact. I've have tried to remove the contradictory elements in the article, and have removed the irrelevant material, as discussed below.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:15, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

North Korean Prostitutes in Russia
There are a lot of North Korean women and also men who work as prostitutes Russia.--141.19.228.15 (talk) 16:01, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080308222109/http://www.korea-dpr.com/faq.htm to http://www.korea-dpr.com/faq.htm
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20091111091210/http://www.refugees.org/countryreports.aspx?id=2127 to http://www.refugees.org/countryreports.aspx?id=2127
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090211173232/http://news.sky.com:80/skynews/Home/World-News/North-Koreans-In-Prostitution-And-Slavery-After-Crossing-The-Border-Illegally-Into-China/Article/200811215150156? to http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/North-Koreans-In-Prostitution-And-Slavery-After-Crossing-The-Border-Illegally-Into-China/Article/200811215150156
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080723152449/http://www.awomansvoice.org/nl1-2005-3.html to http://www.awomansvoice.org/nl1-2005-3.html

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Statistic

 * One analyst Martin Sieff, of the Asia Pacific Defense Forum, reports an estimated 25,000 active prostitutes in North Korea but there is no way to confirm this statistic.


 * A North Korean defector informed Ha Tae-kyung, a lawmaker of the Saenuri Party and publisher specializing in North Korea, that were approximately 500 prostitutes in their city, which has a population of 400,000.


 * “If [we] depend on the simple arithmetic calculation and put North Korean population as 20 million, we can assume that there should be about 25,000 prostitutes in North Korea,” Ha told Sieff.

This statistic is in no way reliable, so I will remove it.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:21, 17 March 2018 (UTC)


 * And by the way, the massage parlour mentioned in the Hyams' article is run by people from Macao.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:25, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Hunter
The lead currently says: "Prostitution in North Korea is illegal, and according to the North Korean government does not exist, but it is still practiced discreetly." The last statement is sourced to the CIA analyst Helen-Louise Hunter. What she actually says (p 107) is:
 * There is no organized prostitution in North Korea today. It would be impossible to use hotels or inn because of the close police surveillance, and the police are difficult, if not impossible, to bribe. Foreign visitors report no offers made by women during their visits to North Korea. However, some prostitution is still discreetly practiced around railroad stations and restaurants...
 * With no nightclubs, bars, gambling places, prostitution, or nudity... the regime feels very self-righteous about these issues and very disdainful of Western society and its "decadent lifestyle".

This book was published in 1999 based on a classified version compiled before Kim Il Sung's death in 1994. I will adjust the text.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:32, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

KFA
The lead says:"Prostitution in North Korea is illegal, and according to the North Korean government does not exist". The source for this is a FAQ by the Korea Friendship Association which says, "Unlike in many countries of the capitalist world, the DPRK is a state free of homelessness, unemployment, prostitution and starvation." This seems to be a case of taking a piece of rhetoric literally. It is not a statement by the North Korean government, and it does not say that prostitution is illegal. I have adjusted the text.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:50, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

A Woman's Voice, International
A lot of the article depends on this source, the testimony before the UN of a small US-based Christian charity. There seems little basis to think its evidence is accurate.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:09, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Moonlighting
I have removed this: "The North Korean government permits some women to cross the border to work in food preparation facilities, and some moonlight as prostitutes." Radio Free Asia reports in 2014 "about half a dozen" women were deported from China for "illegal activities — including prostitution", according to a "local source". This is bolstered by some other vague sources. This is really not notable.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:26, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Relevance again
As pointed out back in 2008, prostitution of North Koreans in China etc is not relevant to this article. Unless there are objections, I intend to move the material to North Korean defectors and other suitable articles.--Jack Upland (talk) 00:39, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Whilst the section is not generally core information for the article, I think it's inclusion could be justified as 'related'. I do agree it's inclusion in North Korean defectors is logical. Prostitution in China had what looked like an earlier edit of this section included, which I have updated. John B123 (talk) 10:47, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I think all that's justified is a sentence or too, with links to the other articles.--Jack Upland (talk) 07:24, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I've got no objection to that. John B123 (talk) 17:37, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

I've added a new section 'Sex trafficking' for consistency with other Prostitution by area' article, and moved 'Prostitution of North Koreans in China' to a sub-section of Sex trafficking. --John B123 (talk) 09:49, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Last sentence of Kippumjo section
The last sentence of the Kippumjo section includes the following: "...the source used is unclear as to whether only adult women are assigned to prostitution, or whether there is prostitution of children..."

If by "the source used" this sentence means "A Woman's Voice", then it is indeed correct that the source does not discuss the age of the prostitutes. It mentions that "the training takes about 20 months and involves fourteen to twenty year old virgins", but that is already mentioned further up in the article. I am uncomfortable about WP reporting on what a source does not say – is this not an example of WP:WEASEL words? I would suggest cutting this part of the sentence. - Polly Tunnel (talk) 12:13, 20 March 2018 (UTC)


 * - Hi, sorry for the late reply. I agree and have removed the offending content. --John B123 (talk) 09:51, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * - Thanks. Polly Tunnel (talk) 11:08, 30 July 2018 (UTC)


 * I think you too should reread what you just said and used your common sense.--Jack Upland (talk) 11:49, 30 July 2018 (UTC)