Talk:Protected Planets Treaty

I removed a bullet point from the "Finer Points" section:

"*In one attempt, the System Lord Anubis used a mothership to send an asteroid on a path towards Earth. It appeared to be of natural causes, and was thus not able to be dealt with by the Asgard."

This is incorrect. Anubis was not a System Lord when he sent the asteroid on its path. As pointed out in the episode Last Stand, the condition of Anubis resuming his position as System Lord was predicated on his promise to eradicate Earth beforehand, thereby circumventing the Protected Planets Treaty.

Natoma 22:27, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

They never actually state or discover that it was Anubis who delivered the asteroid, or even that it was one of the Goa'uld at all. They merely determine that it is likely it was the Goa'uld since the asteroid had to be alien to the solar system and the Goa'uld were the only alien species who wished to attack Earth. It could very well be some other as-yet-unrevealed hostile species, or even a natural event (Though the odds of it being a natural event are so astronomically large that it could very well be discounted as a possibility).

Is Adara not the same planet as the unnamed planet in the Revelation--Marco ie 20:35, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Treaty box
I was under the impression that the treaty box was for real treaties only. JoshuaZ 20:27, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really, as long as it's clear from the article that it's fictional. LD 17:33, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Protected planets and the Ori?
Will the planets under the protected planets treaty be protected from the Ori? I'm thinking not, the Asgard don't seem to be able to defeat Ori ships, at least not 1 on 1.

Anyone have any insight into this?

Faris b 21:02, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The PPT actually forbids the Asgard from intervening against the Ori in defence of a Protected Planet, since they are protected from the Goa'uld and only the Goa'uld. However, since the Goa'uld have been defeated I believe the PPT has been rendered null and void and, as such, the Asgard won't actually refuse to help as a result. JBK405 22:08, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I hate technical stuff like that. I just hope this year, they don't destroy all of Earth's allies. It seems that Hebridan has been overtaken, so what happened to the Serrakin? Wiped out or did they pack up an leave? They weren't human so they may have been wiped out. Jonas's planet was taken as well. I know this is the wrong page for this, but is it possible that the sentinel on Latona can be used against the Ori? It seems to operate on a simmilar basis as the Dakara weapon.

Faris b 01:46, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Is Cimmeria a Protected Planet?
I just rewatched Thor's Hammer and, after Teal'c and Jack are transported to the cavern, I noticed something interesting in the Thor hologram: He doesn't mention the Protected Planets Treaty. He calls Cimmeria a "safe world for developing sentient life," which doesn't specifically reference either the treaty or the Goa'uld. More than that, he says that the Asgard have declared Cimmeria to be a safe world and so notified the Goa'uld, all other planets that we know of to be Protected have entered the treaty via negotiations between the Asgard and the Goa'uld, nobody told either party anything.

This would fit what we've seen in both Thor's Hammer and subsequent episodes. If it was a Protected Planet there would be no need for the Hammer to be there, which is why we haven't seen another on any other planet, and also why Heru-ur would attack the planet without repercussion. If it truly were protected, not only would he not have dared attack it directly (He would have used an intermediary or indirect method of attack, as other System Lords have), but the other System Lords would have all united against him and squahsed him like a bug; I believe it was Lord Yu who clearly stated that the System Lords had to enforce the treaty upon all Goa'uld.

The Asgard and Goa'uld are at war and, though they are in agreement with regards to the treaty, they both still have goals for the rest of the galaxy (The Asgard want to save it, the Goa'uld want to conquer it). There's nothing in the treaty to prevent the Asgard from defending a non-protected planet, it simply means that the Goa'uld are allowed to attack it.

Thoughts?

JBK405 00:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I'm not going to set any time limit or anything (I hate when people do that, because I'm not on here 24 hours a day checking articles for demands in the Talk section), but if enough time passes and nobody brings up a quote or something saying it's a Protected Planet, I'm going to remvoe it from the list (Or at least put up a tag saying "Might not actually be on the list", or something like that.)

Good points, but I believe it is a protected planet but I'm guessing it's one of the first ones to be protected, thus the hammer. Plus, that society is highly Nordicly influenced so they probably feel safer having it.

Faris b 00:38, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

If the Hammer is only there because it predates the actual treaty and the Asgard never bothered to remove it, why would they replace it after Heru-ur's attack? Also, that still doesn't explain why the other System Lords didn't make any moves to stop Heru-ur, or why he would dare to make the attack in the first place (Even Ra obeyed the treaty, the only Goa'uld to knowingly and blatantly defy the treaty was Anubis, and that was only after he upgraded his ships with advanced shields and weaponry).

If the planet's inhabitants needed something visual to symbolize Thor's protection, a simple statue without any technology would do the job just as well.

JBK405 01:04, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, that depends on what kind of answer you're looking for.

The "real world" answer is: The hammer was there because the writers didn't think up the idea of the protected planets treaty until "Fair Game" in season 3, nothing more, that's why Heru-ur's attack was no big deal and such.

The show answer: Either it isn't which would be weird, why protect 27 planets but not 28 but put a weapon that can kill any Jaffa/Goa'uld immediately?

What I want to know is, that if Thor had a ship nearby the whole time or something rather, why did he not come and destroy Heru-ur immediately instead of just waiting til SG-1 approached him?

Faris b 01:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The complete hierarchy and ranking of the System Lords wasn't developed until well into the series, but canonically they existed even in the pilot episode; just because the writers didn't create it until later doesn't mean it didn't exist within the shows universe.

Anyway, both the Asgard and the Goa'uld need to agree on a planet in order for it to be added to the Protected Planets Treaty, so maybe they couldn't get the Goa'uld to agree to as many planets as they wanted. Also, as has been stated within the show, the Asgard do not have the resources to engage the Goa'uld on any large-scale level. They didn't know of the Goa'uld threat until the Goa'uld already amassed quite a force, and battling their way to the surface of each and every planet to install a Hammer would require more ships than they could spare (They've been battling the Replicators for quite a while now). So, they made the Treaty to protect some planets, and they put the Hammer on Cimmeria to (A) Protect just one more planet, which they couldn't get the Goa'uld to put into the treaty or (B) Protect not just people, but civilization, since Protected Planets are purposefully limited by the Asgard and the Goa'uld so as never to progress to a point where they threaten the Goa'uld.

And Thor didn't have a ship "nearby", in all odds he was somewere in a different galaxy when he got SG-1's call. The Asgard hyperdrives are capable of going inter-stellar in seconds and inter-galactic in minutes, which has been seen numerous times within the show. He simply didn't know of the Goa'uld attack until SG-1 told him about it.

JBK405 01:30, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Good point, but I can't imagine the Goa'uld just forgetting about a planet with people on it with an active gate, it seems planets with buried gates are forgotten about but not ones with active gates. Plus, coudln't the hammer have been destroyed by a Ha'tak from orbit? Or does the hammer shoot down Ha'tak as well? Because the Hammer seemed to be able to get rid of any Jaffa/Goa'uld that came through the gate so what about ships? I don't understand why they wouldn't be sending ships then to try and knock out the hammer. Yes, but we've seen protected plants be advanced, the people on the planet with the memory grafting device (The Garalans I believe) which is way beyond the Goa'uld level were a protected planet, did the Goa'uld simply not know about them or what? Because that would violate the treaty.

And regarding the whole symbolism issue, maybe Thor though the people needed more than a statue of the "human Thor" to appeal to them so he put the hammer since it transporters the Jaffa/Goa'uld to that cave and if they leave, they die. I mean, K'Tau is a protected planet yet they had that Hall of wisdom chamber where a holographic "human form" Freyr would communicate with them so wouldn't something simmilar be on another protected planet? This is of course assuming it is in the treaty although.

I would be inclined to agree that it's not in the treaty after this but we'll never know it seems. A full list of the protected planets has never been given.

Faris b 04:46, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Was it really stated in "Red Sky" that Cimmeria was not a protected planet? Because I don't think it was mentioned at all.

Faris b 20:59, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Goa'uld don't "forget" about planets with buried Gates, it's just that usually, when SG-1 tells a planet to bury their Gate to prevent future Goa'uld attacks, the planet holds no necessary resources for the Goa'uld to commit the time and energy to retake the planet by ship. Many planets have rebelled, and others have simply been abandoned by the Goa'uld because they were of no further use, even if they do have active Gates (The Land of Light for example, as well as that planet that Pelops ruled). Several episodes have stated this explicitly, and we've even seen times where the Goa'uld have retaken a planet by ship, even after they buried the Stargate (Double Jeopardy, to be specific).

Anyway, we don't know if the Hammer can shoot down a Ha'tak from orbit, it's never been stated that it can/can't, however I assume that it can, since the Asgard never do things by half measures.

The Galarans technology actually wasn't more advanced than the Goa'uld, it was Goa'uld technology. Modified from a Goa'uld memory recall device, I believe, and that actually wasn't in defiance of the Treaty. No planet could progress to a technological level where they presented a threat to the Goa'uld, true, but simply having advanced technology doesn't make them a threat. We didn't see any advanced weaponry or space ships, or anything else advanced for that matter, so I'm thinking the Treaty simply doesn't apply. Also, we didn't meet the Galarans till after the defeat of the System Lords and (Though I don't recall if it was mentioned within the episode or not) they might have only created that particular device after the Treaty was pretty much dead.

Regarding "Red Sky", it wasn't mentioned specifically, though the Hammer was.

Unless we've got some major issues, I'm going to remove it from the list. It's obviously protected, true, but the actions of the Asgard (Which seem to be unnecessary) and the Goa'uld (Which seem to break the Treaty) both seem to imply that it's not Protected (If you catch the difference), and it never has been specifically stated (In dialogue, or props, or other such things) that it is a member.

JBK405 00:48, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

"* Cimmeria ("Thor's Hammer", "Thor's Chariot") (note: it is not a member planet in the treaty, as stated in Red Sky, hence the need for the hammer device.)" (What it was before I removed it)

Summary
Since Cimmeria's been re-added, and the above section is a tad convoluted, here's a summary of why it's not a protected planet:
 * It's never been stated to be a member of the Protected Planets Treaty. Plain and simple, Wikipedia's policy against original research and supposition alone makes this enough of a reason to keep it off the list.
 * Within Thor's Hammer, after Jack and Teal'c are transported to the cavern, the Thor hologram doesn't mention the Protected Planets Treaty. He calls Cimmeria a "safe world for developing sentient life," which doesn't specifically reference either the treaty or the Goa'uld.  More than that, he says that the Asgard have declared Cimmeria to be a safe world and so notified the Goa'uld, all other planets that we know of to be Protected have entered the treaty via negotiations between the Asgard and the Goa'uld, nobody told either party anything.
 * The Thor's Hammer device is unnecessary for a Protected world, and has been referred to as such by SG-1 themselves in other episodes, since the Goa'uld are forbidden to conquer those planets.
 * Heru-ur's actions would break the Treaty if Cimmeria were a member. Not only would he not have done so if it was a member, since the Goa'uld fear the Asgard, but the other System Lords would have stopped him if he did, since Yu clearly stated that the System Lords were required to enforce the treaty upon all Goa'uld.

To summarize the summary: It was never stated to be a member of the Treaty, the actions of the Asgard are unnecessary if it is, and the actions of the Goa'uld blatantly defy the treaty. So, unless somebody can get some concrete evidence, it should stay off the list. JBK405 05:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Then remove Galara, it is never explicitly stated that it's a protected planet, only that it was protected by the Asgard, like Cimmeria. I watched Collateral Damage this morning to double check this as well, it's never stated. You can't have one and leave the other out. - Count23 05:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

If that's true then yes, Galara should be removed, although there I feel that the use of the actual word "protected" might serve as evidence. Are you sure it wasn't mentioned as part of the treaty, cause I could swear that one of the characters said it was (Although it's been a while since I've seen it, so I'm not going make a big stink about it). JBK405 06:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Thor's Hammer said the world Cimmeria was "protected" for the development of sentient species and then it blabs on about the treat. Plus Thor's Charoit had Gairwyn saying that they were going to build a new hammer to protect them. It's not sufficient evidence for Galara - Count23 00:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

No, as I said earlier on this page, the hologram does not say that Cimmeria is a protected world, just a safe world; and the presence of Thor's Hammer is exactly my point of why it doesn't need to be on this list, since its presence is unnecessary. And if you're absolutely positive that Galara does not specifically mention being a member of the Protected Planets Treaty, then yes, Galara should also not be on the list. I'm not trying to have it be both ways. JBK405 23:12, 19 March 2007 (UTC)