Talk:Protestant youth ministry

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I did what I could to clean this up and make it into a suitable stub...I think it's a valid topic in its own right, but I'm not sure if the title is the best for the subject. Postdlf 4:04 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I modified this page for a class assignment; youth ministry was a good stub, so I incorporated chunks of it into my article. Now, the page is detailed enough to do the subject justice. So that everyone knows, I wanted to go beyond basic definitions of youth ministry-- I thought it was appropriate to discuss its history, its nature and its impact on society.

In addition, to make this article a good learning tool, someone should add an image to it to appeal to visual learners; if anyone can do a better job of finding an image than I did, then feel free to stick it on in there somewhere. Arkman87 22:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

The main stub is very innacurate
A youth ministry is a Christian evangelical ministry intended to instruct and disciple teenagers in what it means to be a Christian, how to mature as a Christian and how to encourage others to claim Jesus as their Savior. This is accomplished through teaching, relationship building and mentoring. Youth ministries may vary widely depending on their denomination, size, liberal or conservative outlook and geographic location. The ministries themselves are almost always built on relationships between the youth minister and the student and their shared perception of their relationship to God. Youth ministries have existed for many years, starting with educationally based Sunday school classes, evolving into the complex, student-oriented organizations that they are today. Youth have become an integral part of nearly every church’s ministry programming, and youth ministries continue to have a profound impact on the societies in which they exist.

"teenagers" - is incorrect, youth ministry deals with children from middle school age (10 or so) until such an age where most people are grounded in a vocation and family of their own (as old as 24), the term teenagers does not reflect this, i suggest it be changed to "youths".

"Youth ministries have existed for many years" - this is incorrect and conflicts with the history section below it. "many years" should be refined to (depending on the definition of youth minstry) either "nearly 150 years" going by my next protest below or "nearly 300" if we trace youth minstry back to 1724 when the colonial paster Cotton Mather organized societies to sustain the faith of young people. this also only reflects america, im not familiar with the history of youth ministry in other nations should anywhere else preceed the US.

"starting with educationally based Sunday school classes" - this is also incorrect, and conflicts with the history section below it. youth ministry began formally as a weekly bible study for youths between 12 and 22 at Brooklyn's Lafayette Avenu Presbyterian Church.

the entire history section itself is in shambles but im not going to edit it this late at night perhaps later, and i dont know how to edit the stub since there is no edit button by it.


 * In many churches the Youth Minister teaches a Sunday School class, usually the high school class because in many cases a lay person would not have enough training to engage in the higher level discussion and bible study done at this levelTjb891 19:11, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

EDIT: I've reworded the main stub to reflect a better concise definition. I might add and rework more of the topic at a later date.


 * Hi Tjb891, please provide sources for these claims. HellaNorCal 01:51, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Bias?
This article is openly pro-youth-ministry. It violates the rules of neutrality by arguing adamantly the economic and social benefits of youth ministry without adding much in the way of criticism. Could youth ministry be instilling unnecessary guilt in young people's lives? Is it even moral to teach young children about religion in a biased manner? Does it pressure young people into religious belief against their will?

I'm not particularly against youth ministry; it just seemed like the article was quite one-sided.

I agree, and non-sensical topics like "improving the economy" should be edited
 * It needs to be remembered that most youth activities are not during Sunday school hours and are optional in most churches. I would also like to mention most mandatory youth events would be related to confirmation or baptism and both of these events are voluntary in nature and church leaders would probably look down upon a parent forcing someone to do these things because this would defeat their purpose.Tjb891 19:17, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Please mark all of your comments with a signature by typing --~. There is also a button next to the red no W button that will add the signature to your comments. Further, if you do see issues with this page, please take a moment to update and edit the article to better match whatever non-biased viewpoint you would like it to contain. Those of us, like myself, who have taken the time to attempt quality, neutralizing edits on the page will gladly welcome your edits. --Avery W. Krouse 17:01, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree. This article is in serious need of some supporting citations, removal of bias and general tightening up of the writing style. The section "Youth ministry and society" is of particular concern to me. I have made a cursory attempt, but it could do with someone good making some changes. It is a shame, because it could be an interesting article if it wasn't so heavily biased. --Mr-Thomas 00:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I removed the sections on why youth Ministries are good for society. The rest seems pretty much NPOV to me. --Regebro 17:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Parachurch Organizations
I am removing the boy scouts of America from this list because it is not listed as a parachurch organization in the parachurch organization article or the Boy Scouts of America article. Also it should be noted the Boy Scouts of America only specifies a scout believe in a higher power and includes non Christian scouts as its member under the same status as Christian Scouts. Tjb891 19:21, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Just plain wrong
I'm a Unitarian Universalist, and we develop and provide ministry for youth; youth ministry. Youth ministry, is essentially, ministry for youth. It's not inherently Christian, Jewish, Jain, or Greek; it's not exclusive to any one religion. I think that either the "evangelical christian" bit should be moved to a lower section, and a broader introduction put into place, or maybe this whole article should be moved to Youth ministry (Christian), or Youth ministry (Evangelical). I haven't read through the whole article, so I can't say which I would consider more appropriate. Does anyone else have an opinion? HellaNorCal 01:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

This article introduces Yout ministry, then talks about 3,500 "youth organizations" in NYC. Is it claiming that all Youth organizations are Evangelical christian, or is it just not clear? HellaNorCal 01:49, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

So, to me, this entire article reads like a brochure for some "Christian Evangelical" program, or tradition. I put forth both that:


 * This article be moved, to an unambiguous page title,
 * Basically, the whole thing be reworded at least, if not rewritten, to more closely conform to a Neutral point of view. WP:NPOV

HellaNorCal 01:56, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I just stumbled onto this article today, and I agree with most of what you're saying. There's some serious problems; I cringed when I read the first line suggesting that youth ministry is "evangelical Christian", even though I may fit into that definition. I'll take a crack at cleaning it up some in the next few days.  Tijuana Brass ¡Épa! 03:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * What do you think of moving the article? It seems to me to be fairly focussed on one thing, and of a length which is suitable to be its own article, rather than a section, thus deserving of a move. I'm thinking that moving it is a first step, and then we may proceed with writing both an article on Youth-oriented ministry (Youth ministry), and neutralizing this one (under a name to be determined; my thoughts above). I'd like to get input from at least one other person before proceeding. HellaNorCal 04:45, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Explain a little more what you're thinking of in a move, since I'm not sure if I follow. I agree that youth ministry organizations vary by both denomination and individual congregation, but I don't know if it's necessary to separate it in that particular manner (or at least in the manner that I'm thinking that you're suggesting). Perhaps notable differences could receive their own sections or subsections within this article, since most Protestant and Catholic youth ministries have far more similarities than differences, along with some additional content being placed on the article of the respective denomination. In the case of a significant organization, say, the YRUU, they can be broken off on their own — as you very capably have done, by the way.  Tijuana Brass ¡Épa! 05:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm suggesting a move rather than revision, because I think that this is a quite decent article, though lacking scope. Youth ministry, as I've always known it to be, is not inherently Christian, although most Christian denominations certainly have Youth ministry. So while I don't want to break up the current article (which seems to me to be entirely referring to an aspect of Christianity), I want the Youth ministry article to be an overview of different faiths' ways of nurturing/indoctrinating their children/youth/young adults (or maybe just youth, but I think that the three could make up a single article). I also think that the current article is too big to be fit into a single section. Am I any clearer? I'm sorry, I've a tendency to forget rather simple but important things in my ramblings, and leave whomsoever I'm talking to rather ill-informed. HellaNorCal 06:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am strongly in favor of your proposal, and of the creation of a new article to cover youth ministries from every religious denomination (though they are not always called youth ministries). This can be done very simply using the move tab at the top of the article, then deleting the redirct that will automatically appear on this page.  Different youth ministries may or may not need to be separated out into their own articles, but this one should be moved in order to avoid the blatant POV of this article's title and content.  The article will then still need to be revised to be NPOV.--Musaabdulrashid 05:12, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Now that the AFD is over and we're out from under the headsman's axe, what do we think of the article's title now? I'm personally in favor of starting an article at youth ministry (which would entail moving this one back) that covers all types, and only splitting them out if the page gets too long/complex. -- nae'blis 02:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I am in full support of Youth ministry being an overview article. Now that the AfD is done, I've made a stub for it. I think that this article, the Evangelical one, merits it's own article, because it has stood as it's own article for quite some time now. Right now the Youth ministry article has this page linked as the Main article for Protestant Youth ministry. I'm going to put in a summary there too, though.
 * So the structure I'm looking to see is Youth ministry being an overview article, and creating other articles if need be, to branch out. I think that that's what several of us have been trying to do for awhile now. HellaNorCal 20:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * In either case, the name of this article (or section if it turns out as such) should be Youth ministry (Evangelical), not Youth Ministry (Evangelical). Evangelical describes "Evangelical" in Europe as equating to "Protestant" in the USA. Since this article deals mainly with the USA (the parts I've read anyway), would it be fit to name it Youth ministry (Protestant)? I believe that is what is meant by the article name. HellaNorCal 20:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Evangelical and Protestant are not the same thing. American Evangelicalism is a branch of Protestantism, and it seems this article is using that definition.

what if you had to lean how to wirte some stuff I dont know how this really works —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.131.123.1 (talk) 18:38, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

This page should be merged.
There is already a page on Christian youth ministry. What is the purpose of this page? To discuss Protestant youth ministries, as though they are not Christian or something? I believe that Protestant youth ministry and youth ministry should be merged as one, or at least have a direct link on the youth ministry page to this page, so that if people stumble across the youth ministry article, they can read something about Protestant youth ministries and vice versa. 65.24.105.132 (talk) 23:35, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The Youth ministry article covers youth ministries of a variety of sects. If there were notable Buddhist or Islamic youth ministries, it'd be appropriate to include those in the Youth Ministry article.  The difference is sort of like the difference between the article Religion and Protestantism.  The difference in no way implies that Protestantism is not Christian or is not religious, but is a type of Christianity and so a type of religion.  If we merged this article with Youth ministry, it would create undue weight on Protestantism.  Why did you not also suggest merging Catholic youth work with the youth ministry article?  Ian.thomson (talk) 21:45, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Removed Doug Fields section
I have removed the section on Doug Fields and placed it below. It's content is overly-promotional and it is not well-sourced; two of the three references are dead links to promotional sites that I could not fix and the third lives only in archive. I don't feel that this person is notable enough to have his own section.

"Also of note is Doug Fields, who formerly served as the Pastor of Student Ministries at Rick Warren's famed Saddleback Church from 1992–2006, and today, is arguably the ministry expert premier youth in the world. His innovative church growth methods at Saddleback led to unprecedented growth, with over 1,000 students attending his high school ministry alone, believed to be the largest youth ministry in the United States at the time. This growth was accomplished without the use of a dedicated student ministry facility.  In 1998, Fields' groundbreaking Gold Medallion-winning book, Purpose Driven Youth Ministry was published, revolutionizing youth ministries around the world, and led to Fields' unofficial title as the "most famous youth pastor in the world." The book is still considered required reading in many evangelical college and seminary youth ministry courses. Saddleback5.jpg

From 2006-2009, Fields served as the Pastor of Life Development at Saddleback. In 2009, Fields resigned from Saddleback to pursue other ministry opportunities. His Purpose Driven Youth Ministry Student Leadership Conference attracts over 1,000 student leaders every year. Fields is also the founder of Simply Youth Ministry and hosts an annual conference for youth workers (youthministry.com/symc) in collaboration with Group Publishing. He is the author of more than 50 books. Fields is currently on staff at Mariners Church in Irvine, CA as part of the student ministries.

In 2008, Fields saw his dream of over 15 years come to fruition with the completion of the Refinery, Saddleback's first dedicated student ministry facility. Costing $20 million, the state-of-the-art facility is considered the premier student ministry facility in the world. The Refinery houses Saddleback's middle school ministry (JHM), high school ministry (HSM), and college ministry (CM). Since moving into the Refinery, all the student ministries have seen tremendous growth, with more than 2,500 young people attending services in the facility each week. HSM has doubled its attendance to 1,500 students attending per week since moving into the new facility.." Leschnei (talk) 20:38, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Needs inline citations
There are three books in the further reading section that could possible be used for inline citations. I don't have access to these books, so I can't be too sure. Leschnei (talk) 20:42, 24 October 2016 (UTC)