Talk:Providence College/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Racepacket (talk) 16:41, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria Thank you for nominating this article. Please disambiguate Dominican College, Master of Arts, Mid-Atlantic, and Sean McAdam. No invalid external links. ✅ Continuing to hold as article progresses. Racepacket (talk) 03:20, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Is it reasonably well written?
 * A. Prose quality:
 * I would delete the acronym "PC" because it is not used in the article.
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Reword: "the college is known for its programs in the liberal arts and sciences."
 * Having trouble finding a suitable alternative. Deleted "sciences" because it's considered a "liberal arts school," but having trouble verbalizing that better.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "specializes in liberal arts", or "with a highly rated liberal arts program...." or "claims to be highly rated as a liberal arts program (cite to school's website)" Do not speak for Wikipedia. Racepacket (talk) 03:20, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ 20:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep the ratings out of the lead section.
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "who dreamed of an institution"->"who sought an institution"
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "In 1955, President Robert J. Slavin, O.P. (1947–1961) acquired property that pushed the original boundaries of campus to Huxley Avenue.[11]" - I thought that the college purchased the property. Not in source.
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "In addition to the hiring Joe Mullaney as the men's basketball coach, 1955 saw the opening Alumni Hall as the new home for Friars basketball instead of playing in local Providence high schools.[11]"->"Prior to the opening of Alumni Hall in 1955, the men's basketball team played in local Providence high schools. The college also hired Joe Mullaney as the men's basketball coach.[11]"
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I would drop the rest from the history: " Providence College gained national attention when in 1961 the Friars' men's basketball team won its first National Invitation Tournament (NIT) championship behind senior Lenny Wilkens.[11] Two years later, in 1963, the College took home its second NIT championship behind John Thompson.[11]"
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "In 1970, the College decided to end its policy of being an all-male institution by allowing the admittance of women for the 1971–1972 school year.[12]"->"In 1970, the College decided to admit women starting with the 1971–1972 school year.[12]"
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * " the unique Development of Western "->" the Development of Western "
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * "Peterson helped the College acquire" - why focus on the President? Perhaps a Vice President or a trustee played a more central role in this transaction.
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Does this paragraph belong in the history section, "With men's basketball tickets becoming a hot commodity at the 2,600-seat Alumni Hall gymnasium, and with the opening of the Providence Civic Center in 1972, the Friars moved downtown in time for their Final Four appearance behind Providence natives Ernie DiGregorio and Marvin Barnes.[13] The same year, the men's hockey team played their first season in their new home on campus, Schneider Arena.[13]"?
 * I would think so. Major events in athletics programs.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * " Peterson saw the student body changing drastically," - why is Peterson the subject of the sentence. If you wish, divide the history into paragraphs with a separate paragraph for each president. The topic sentence for each paragraph could be "President X served from y to z. During his term..."
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Title IX was passed in 1972, and the article implies that Providence did not comply between 1972 and 1994. Is this accurate?
 * The baseball team was dropped to comply with Title IX. Compliance situation changed between 1972 and 1999.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you have a source? Title IX did not require them to drop any team. They had the option of adding more women's teams.  Instead of expanding the total athletics budget, they cut back on baseball, but that was an internal Providence decision. So, let's be careful not to "blame" title IX unfairly here. Racepacket (talk) 03:20, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ Just dropped the sentence entirely. Probably not notable except in Providence Friars. 20:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * How does a closed campus differ from an open campus?
 * Hard to verbalize. Gated, maybe?  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Gated is fine.
 * ✅ 20:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Why does college has a cemetery? Did not community reject students whose families wanted them to be burried in the local cemeteries?
 * ✅ It's for the friars.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Generally, Wikipedia does not list tuition data because it quickly goes out of date.
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I have never heard a dorm being described as "single-educational"? Is that term really used at Providence?
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
 * Lead should be a fair summary of the article.
 * Words to watch - avoid superlatives.
 * " used the famous "skating Friar" logo since 1973." - please delete "famous"
 * 1) Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
 * A. References to sources:
 * B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
 * Do you have sources independent of Providence College, particularly for the history section?
 * Tough to find. Any suggestions?  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Try Google News archive section with specific date range. If X became President in 1950, search from 1949-1951 for X and Providence College -  Presidential selections make the NY Times.  Add some newspaper sources.
 * All NY Times archived are pay-only and most do not contain any sort of abstract beyond a headline. Is that acceptable for referencing?  Pats 1  T / C  01:06, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * C. No original research:
 * 1) Is it broad in its coverage?
 * A. Major aspects:
 * The WP:UNI guidelines suggest an Organization section which could cover Providence's Board of Trustees, relationship to the church, etc.
 * In this case, I felt it would be better to leave it out due to notability concerns. Board of Trustees, perhaps. But it's not part of any larger university system, and doesn't have any substantial division between academic schools (they're more nominal).  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and add it: how many trustees on the board and on the Corporation? Any student or faculty trustees? How are they selected? How often do they meet? I assume they hire/fire the President. What is College's relationship with Catholic Church? Is having a separate Corporation and board of trustees a way to distance the college from the church? http://www.providence.edu/governance Racepacket (talk) 03:20, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ Could not find much on relationship with Catholic Church though, other than the fact that the Bishop of Providence is a member of the corporation and board of trustees.  Pats 1  T / C  01:03, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the history section should explain the 2008 reorganization into separate college academic units.
 * More of a nominal change. Business School would be the most notable, which is included.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The WP:UNI guidelines suggest discussing sustainability in the campus section.
 * Lack of information there.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Please summarize this website: http://www.providence.edu/EHS/Sustainability/ Also many University articles report on their Green Report Card rating: http://www.greenreportcard.org/report-card-2011/schools/providence-college Racepacket (talk) 03:20, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ Don't want to go overboard with it though.  Pats 1  T / C  20:29, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * You did fine. Racepacket (talk) 16:56, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there a library or an art museum on campus? Any other cultural institution?
 * Library, yes, but nothing that would make it particularly notable.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Why not add it to the Academic section. Name of library and number of volumes. Racepacket (talk) 03:20, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅  Pats 1  T / C  20:15, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Does Providence College offer distance learning or computer-based instruciton?
 * Lack of information/notability.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * B. Focused:
 * Undue coverage of athletics particularly in the school history section.
 * Tried to limit it to the addition of athletics buildings to campus and the exposure of the school on a national level.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Consider deleting the civ scream paragraph.
 * Fairly notable tradition, but would consider shortening it.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Is it neutral?
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * File:Providence College logo.png - isn't this missing a copyright tag?
 * ✅.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * Although not a GA requirement, more photos would improve the article.
 * Definitely working on that one. Have contacted some Flickr authors.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * This article represents significant work by its author, but is far from GA standards. Putting review on hold for you to address concerns. Racepacket (talk) 16:12, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * File:Providence College logo.png - isn't this missing a copyright tag?
 * ✅.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * Although not a GA requirement, more photos would improve the article.
 * Definitely working on that one. Have contacted some Flickr authors.  Pats 1  T / C  00:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * This article represents significant work by its author, but is far from GA standards. Putting review on hold for you to address concerns. Racepacket (talk) 16:12, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

The history section continues to have problems caused by using the President's name as the subject of many sentences A possible fix: "In 1955, President Robert J. Slavin, O.P. (1947–1961) acquired the House of Good Shepard property..."->"Robert J. Slavin, O.P. served as president from 1947 to 1961. During his tenure in 1955, Providence acquired the House of Good Shepard property..." Racepacket (talk) 05:00, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

When you deleted the baseball sentence, you accidentally left in the first part: "Also, in a very controversial decision, " Racepacket (talk) 05:19, 22 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Will be on the last two outstanding items (organization section and references?) within the next day or two.  Pats 1  T / C  01:13, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I suggest you follow the Saint Anselm College GA as a guide - as PC, Saint Anselm is a very similar Catholic college - I did most of the Saint Anselm College page and was responsible for it being promoted to GA. My suggestion: Add some beautiful images of the campus - this article has far too much text without any images. I'm from RI btw, PC is a beautiful campus! So when May comes around, snap some pics of campus like I did for Saint Anselm College

Good Luck! :) --Ericci8996 (talk) 22:41, 2 April 2011 (UTC)