Talk:Provisional Government of Oregon

To FA
Should be enough. Aboutmovies 07:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Add Capitol sub section to Structure, include info on votes for capitol and all meeting places used. Also add sub section on Officers and add details of the positions
 * Expand on Laws, including second organic laws info, adding additional districts, chartering of institutions
 * Maybe Operations section
 * Make Elections section

There's a serious discrepancy between the article and that very nice map.
The map currently shown, represented as the area governed from 1843 and its four subdivisions (districts), while very very interesting, clearly is not a map of the entire Oregon Country (a.k.a. Columbia District) prior to the Oregon Treaty's 1846 division of the region along the 49th parallel, into the northern, British, portion and the southern, U.S., portion. The map clearly shows only the U.S. portion, i.e. what in 1846 became the Oregon Territory. Which begs the question: How can the four districts shown on the map be the four districts defined by the Provisional Government when they do not include the entire area governed?

As fascinating as that map is, it points to something being very wrong here.--IfYouDoIfYouDon&#39;t (talk) 12:54, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
 * All it points to is that map only represents it from 1846 on. I personally have not come across another map showing divisions of the provisional government, only versions of this one. If you would like to volunteer to make one, feel free to. Not to mention, as the article covers, the effective control never extended into modern Canada, and the northern boundary shown in the map was basically wishful thinking. Aboutmovies (talk) 17:31, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, it says "the effective area of control was limited to the lower Columbia and Willamette Valley"; by your argument, then, we ought to have a map showing all four districts confined to just that area, not the area of the entire Oregon Territory. More importantly, the article goes on to say that "[t]he districts divided the entire Oregon Country into these four districts" (bolding mine), which is clearly contradicted by the map. It also refers anachronistically to Twality or Tualatin District's northern boundary as extending south from "the northern boundary line of the United States", without any qualification regarding anybody's wishful thinking. Meanwhile, the 1844 presidential election was won largely on the assertion that the U.S. would annex the entire Oregon Country up to 54°40′ north (See, e.g., Oregon boundary dispute, if you doubt this); so whose wishful thinking are you talking about?--IfYouDoIfYouDon&#39;t (talk) 01:38, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, provide a better map. That will solve your problem. Otherwise, the map is accurate for 1846 on. Not to mention the map (per the caption) is meant as representative of the districts and not much else. As to the rest, the wishful thinking is covered with your opening sentence; "effective" was mostly the greater Willamette Valley area, so anything beyond that was wishful thinking. As to the 1844 election, read the other article carefully as to what won the election, which was far more than just the Oregon question. Not to mention we don't cite to other Wikipedia articles as I could go into it and edit it to say monkeys then landed from Mars at set up a colony. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:41, 1 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The map is not accurate for 1846 on, because in 1845 a fifth district, Polk, was subdivided out of Yamhill. (The boundaries of the map also contradict the article's explicit claim that the Provisional Government in 1843 divided the entire Oregon Country, on paper at least, into the four original districts named: If you can satisfy yourself/others that it's not supportable, take it out; but that still won't save the image.) The map in fact contradicts the statement found directly beneath it in the book from which you've sourced it, in the short passage regarding the December 1843 creation of these first four districts (Horner 1919, p. 97): "Twality District was bounded on the north by the northern boundary line of the Oregon Country." (Italics mine.)


 * If the map is incorrect for the period preceding the 1846 Treaty -- which it certainly appears to be -- then it's incorrect for all time periods; and patently inaccurate material, whether from a published source or not, or whether someone is offering a suitable replacement for it or not, does not belong in any Wikipedia article.


 * I did spend some time trying either to find a map that showed the four districts as they would have appeared when accurately imposed on the entire Oregon Country, or to determine the precise boundaries of the fifth district added in 1845, so that I might attempt to add it to the existing map (with a caption indicating it was post-Treaty); but I haven't succeeded at either one.
 * I can very well understand that you might wish to preserve this contribution of yours; still, all I can tell you is: It's broke, SOFIXIT (including the "Don't get upset" section). Or (Don't get upset...) it needs to be deleted.--IfYouDoIfYouDon&#39;t (talk) 11:45, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Seriously? The only person who seems to be upset is you, as you would be the only person deciding they need to add emphasis. I've further qualified the map caption to address your concerns. The bi picture here is, and as your research has confirmed, there really are no other maps. This is simply it, and it is actually better than none at all, as it shows many things to the reader: the original divisions; current national boundary; current state boundaries. All of which provide context to the reader so they know what is being discussed. As you can attest to, if you read the entire article you can then learn even more, including that the area of claimed control goes beyond what the map shows, and that the national boundary was not set until 1846 (and even then only most of as covered in the Pig War). Aboutmovies (talk) 19:31, 9 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Ah, you simply changed the caption... Thank you! That's an elegant solution you came up with there. Wish I'd thought of it.--IfYouDoIfYouDon&#39;t (talk) 06:50, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

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