Talk:Pudding (Space Channel 5)

Sourcing
Some of the sources you are using in the article are not reliable, like Steam guides. You should check WP:VG/RS for a list of suitable video game sources and consider replacing any that may be considered unreliable. Anarchyte ( talk ) 14:59, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * @Anarchyte thank you for pointing this out. I didn’t not even realize Wikipedia provided this type of content. With this said, I’m doing additional research and will be replacing the two unreliable links I’ve placed that you’ve mentioned. If there’s anything else that should be changed, give me a holler. --Lord of Fantasy (talk) 17:00, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 13 January 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Megan B....   It’s all coming to me till the end of time  17:30, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Pudding (character) → Pudding (Space Channel 5)

Besides the fact that this particular character is from an objective POV, relatively obscure or borderline notable within the international pop culture zeitgeist, the title of this page being "Pudding (character)" is an incomplete disambiguation and does not follow the same convention as another character from the same video game franchise, Ulala (Space Channel 5). A quick google search indicate that there are at least a few other fictional characters who are primarily known by "Pudding" as a mononym. Haleth (talk) 12:25, 13 January 2022 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support move. Current disambiguation is incomplete.  O.N.R.  (talk) 17:39, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support name change. It’s a good idea to be as specific as possible, seeing as there are a few other characters named "Pudding" out there. Lord of Fantasy (talk) 20:17, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support Per nom.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 12:21, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Is it actually notable?
After looking over the article, it seems that it may be subject to heavy WP:REFBOMBING. I am curious as to the WP:THREE best sources that prove the character is notable. Most of the reception seems to just be snippets from other unrelated things, or things that put literally every character there and give no outsized importance to this one.

Even the article for the main protagonist Ulala, a character much more prominent than Pudding, is on shaky ground notability-wise, though the fact that there is a lawsuit involving her gives her ka certain type of notability (similar to Kadabra). ZXCVBNM (TALK) 09:36, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, this fictional character is notable (particularly in Japan and Korea) — and complies with Wikipedia's notability standards and what qualifies for a separate page of a larger proportion. I left links to the best three sources on the talk page right underneath the WikiProject's section that somewhat identify the character's notability. With the character being more popular in the early 2000s, it’s quite difficult to find reliable sources that are still accessible online. I know she’s also mentioned in several official guide books, and part of a highly-collectible action figure set (being one of the more sought-out character’s), but I haven’t gotten around to adding those sources to the main page just yet, or including the information due to it not being ready. In specific terms, despite the three-best-sources rule, 'yes' — the character is prominently notable in video game culture, much like Ulala — although both have lost recognition within the past few years due to decline in popularity of the original games in the series. Thank you for bringing this up (that way other readers have an idea as well), and I hope you understand! Also, the character has enough information to be separated from the Space Channel 5 article, which includes barely no mention of other characters besides Ulala. Thank you! Lord of Fantasy (talk) 01:59, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I would like to point out that the GNG specifically requires secondary sources - which a lot of newer editors get confused for primary ones. Official guidebooks don't count as secondary since they are not evidence of wider notability, just an attempt by the creator to market their product. An example of a secondary source is a publication specifically writing an article about the character, and it is rare that non protagonists are notable enough for their own page unless it is an extremely prominent video game or a character that received a sort of breakout status.
 * Checking the WP:THREE articles, one appears to be an interview (primary, not secondary), another primary source, the HG101 source (not WP:SIGCOV) and the GamesRadar article (not specifically about the subject). I am confident that if someone did a full source review at AfD it would fail, so I would seriously consider whether this page passes notability or if you are just mistaken about the GNG. I am keeping open the possibility of magazine sources but frankly, they are likely to concern the protagonist Ulala and not Pudding if there are any. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 03:15, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you for pointing these out. Like I said, those are the best ones for now, I just need to dig deeper into my research frame and extend into magazines and such (aka secondary). However, now that you mention it, I did read a Sega magazine at a library a few years back that mentioned the character in a page or so (promoting the upcoming Space Channel 5: Part 2 video game), but I don’t recall the names of the publisher, writer, etc. or even the publication year (which I presume is either 2001 or 2002), so I’ll try to find that one online or check back at the library. As for the links I provided, those are really the best ones. A lot of highly notable characters, including Ygritte from Game of Thrones, Cream from Sonic the Hedgehog, and Jessie from Toy Story 2, have trouble finding secondary sources even though they are popular in top-categories (example: Video Game, movies, television). But again, thanks for pointing this out — and like I said, this character is definitely notable in video game culture. Lord of Fantasy (talk) 03:46, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with ZXC. The vast majority of references in this article are ancillary mentions, primary sources which do not establish notability, or fail verification entirely. Considering Ulala only barely makes the cut for a standalone article (and could easily fall the other way with a little more scrutiny), an article of this length for a character this minor strikes me as massively WP:UNDUE. Merge. Axem Titanium (talk) 07:26, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:PAGEDECIDE is the relevant consideration here, as opposed to WP:UNDUE which is mostly concerned about the presentation of information and viewpoints within a given topic's page or outside of it. Haleth (talk) 15:49, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd Merge this, as many of the sources are questionable at best, and the character has seen practically no attention or relevance outside the series. Also the way the article's written seems more like a Wikia than Wikipedia. --ProtoDrake (talk) 11:10, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm also for a merge; the existing sources just aren't enough for it to stand on its own. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 17:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge because of lack of secondary sources that address the topic directly and in detail. She is only discussed within the context of Space Channel 5 games, not as a standalone character of any real significance. Ulala has the whole lawsuit going for her, and secondary sources that are primarily about her and not the games she appears in. TarkusAB talk / contrib 21:05, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I would support a merge as an alternative to deletion. As TarkusAB have noted, many of the sources do not address the topic directly and in detail. Rampant use of several questionable or unreliable sources as well, as I have discovered after scrutinizing the page as part of the GAN. Haleth (talk) 08:18, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I wouldn’t mind a merge of this article if a general list of characters were created and moved to the main space, rather than merging to one single video game article. I’ve already been working on a List of Space Channel 5 characters for some time (which is currently in the draft space). Lord of Fantasy (talk) 18:57, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That sounds undue. Are there secondary sources that talk mainly about Space Channel 5 characters (not the games)? I kinda doubt that. You have a long history of creating character articles that end up getting redirected. Wikipedia really isn't the place for this kind of material. I think you ought to familiarize yourself with WP:VGSCOPE. TarkusAB talk / contrib 09:44, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I’m just saying the character is better being merged to a list or a larger page discussing the series as a whole, rather than the one article that discusses the first game (of which she barely makes an appearance in). Seeing as there is no list of characters currently, nor a page consisting of the series as a whole, it would not be a bad idea to include a "Characters" section on the Space Channel 5 and Space Channel 5: Part 2 pages (but only discussing the main characters). For example, the Space Channel 5 page could only include information on Ulala, Jaguar, Fuse, Pudding, Blank, and Space Michael — while the Space Channel 5: Part 2 also includes those characters, with Pine, Hoorg, Mimi & Lily, Purge, Noize, and Peace included. I also took a look at both pages too and noticed the plot sections are very weak — as they literally don’t mention most of the plot whatsoever, which is also something to consider when merging the page. If people are in an agreement that the page should be merged, it should also be clear what page(s) it will be merged to, what sections will be added, and/or if there’s other details that should be added or fix while doing so. Just something to consider. Lord of Fantasy (talk) 17:52, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * There's nothing wrong with minor redundancy by covering the same character(s) twice, once at SC5 and once at SC5 P2. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:49, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I see you still haven't read WP:VGSCOPE, or are choosing to ignore it. Good luck in your future editing endeavors. TarkusAB talk / contrib 23:23, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Any updates here? ZXCVBNM TarkusAB, Axem Titanium, ProtoDrake. Seems like everyone are in favor of merging this article. 121.145.227.140 (talk) 22:25, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree that the consensus is clear. Bit busy these days but if I'm the first to get to merging it, then I'll do it. If not, anyone else is welcome to give it a shot. Axem Titanium (talk) 23:08, 27 February 2022 (UTC)