Talk:Puttin' On the Ritz

Covers
I think that it would be worthwhile to add a section commenting on the covers of this song by various artists throughout time, of which there have been many. Frank Sinatra and They Might Be Giants are two examples...there are more, i am certain.
 * The one that people alledge is by They Might Be Giants is, in fact, not. That version of the song is by Taco Ockerse, which the article already mentions. Tell your friends.
 * TMBG did a cover of Istanbul (Not Constantinople) which was originally based on the music in Puttin' on the Ritz.

Is it appropriate to include the "internet phenomena" of Puttin' on the Ritz being synced to the video of Japanese surrender on USS Missouri in the covers section? It is not a new performance of the song and should now qualify as a cover. Further I haven't been able to find any copies of this "internet phenomena" online.--Eladamry (talk) 19:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

There is a German language song named "Kokettier' nicht mit mir" which has music that sounds very much like Puttin' on the Ritz. I don't have any other information about this song at this time. A performance of this song can be heard at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fCaoBN2jvU Titled Annett Louisan & Götz Alsmann - Kokettier' nicht mit mir. There are also other performances of this song on youtube. The comments on this clip say that this performance is from November 2008 on German TV.Wcomm (talk) 06:22, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Falco
Falco also had big success with this song. He shold be named in the article!
 * As far as I can tell, Falco made no such recording. I believe that many people are incorrectly remembering Taco as Falco. If it's not mentioned on Falco's own Wiki page, it should not be on here.


 * Has anybody done a version and passed it off as done by Falco?  Dexter Nextnumber (talk) 02:22, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Other
I rather disagree with User:ShaunMacPherson's edit with the comment "people do not know/ care?/remember who origionally did it, their experience with this song is from the more recent versions". My thoughts are that since this is an encyclopedia (or aspires to be one), it is aimed at informing those who wish to find out such things. Furthermore, I don't necessarily agree that everyone will necessarily encounter first/only the "more recent" (you mean the 1982 one?) versions; they may first hear the number on some film they see on television, which could date anywhere from the 1930s to the 1970s. I tend to prefer to have information in chronological order unless there is a pressing reason not to. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 16:50, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * My God, Wikipedia has advanced since then. The horrifying thing is that this user is still contributing to the site, and appears to have a position of authority; that disturbs me, it takes more than six years to live down that kind of edit. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 17:07, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It hasn't advanced that much. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 18:32, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't know how you would phrase this so that it wasn't POV, but the original lyrics to this song weren't about white people going to black jazz clubs, they were mocking black servants who dressed up in fancy clothes and acted like rich white people on their nights off. The lyric is full of racial epithets (ie "lulubelles") and the basic gist is that it's fun to go to Harlem and watch black people getting dressed up and spending all their money. It's blatantly racist.

Number of appearances at the top of the chart
I've heard time-and-again, especially on Casey Kasem's radio show, that Berlin had a hit in at least 5 decades with this song. If it can be verified, then that should be mentioned in the article. Jimcripps 03:06, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Original lyrics
The assertion that the original lyrics referred to whites visiting African-American jazz clubs is incorrect. The original lyrics were actually quite racist, and underwent revision fairly early. In the first version of the song, mention is made, for example, that "every Lulu Belle" goes out Thursday evenings. Thursday evening, of course, was the traditional maids' night off:

Have you seen the well-to-do Up on Lenox Avenue, On that famous thoroughfare, With their noses in the air?

High hats and arrow collars, White spats and lots of dollars, Spending ev'ry dime, For a wonderful time!

If you're blue and you don't know Where to go to, why don't you go Where Harlem sits, Puttin' on the Ritz.

Spangled gowns upon the bevy Of high browns from down the levee, All misfits, Puttin' on the Ritz.

That's where each and ev'ry Lulu-Belle goes Ev'ry Thursday evening with her swell beaus Rubbing elbows

Come with me and we'll attend the Jubilee, and see them spend their Last two bits, Puttin' on the Ritz.

 Lenox Avenue - A main thoroughfare in Harlem. High browns - A variation of the phrase "high yellow", referring to those of mixed racial background, usually with the inference that they are putting on airs beyond their social station. Lulu-Belle - A generic nickname for a black maid. Thursday evening - Typically, the maid's night off. Two bits - a quarter (25 cents) 


 * Partly right, but somewhat off on your initial assertion. The lyrics indeed show the racist attitudes common in mainstream culture at the time. "Quite racist" depends on what standard you're using; taking these historic lyrics to today, certainly-- but they are not particularly racist for the era (in the 1920s mainstream pop music still had many examples of songs with such stereotyped descriptions as "shuffling darkies" and worse). "High brown" is/was a term for a light brown skinned African-American with no comment on "putting on airs". The song absolutely refers to the then current fashion of whites visiting the black clubs of Harlem. Note the line "Come with me, and we'll attend their jubilee"-- the speaker ("me") and the audience who the speaker is adressing ("we") are implied to be white, and the "they" are the Harlem blacks detailed in the song whose "jubilee" the whites attend for their own amusement. Listen to period recordings of the tune or see the early sound film use to confirm this nuance. -- Infrogmation 14:17, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * This is not the view taken by some specialist writers on this era. For example, John Mueller writing in Astaire Dancing - The Musical Films notes (p.267) "In the original version it told of the ritzy airs of Harlemites parading up and down Lenox Avenue. For the 1946 film, the strutters became well-to-do whites on Park Avenue. The patronizing, yet admiring satire of the song is shifted, then, and mellowed in the process. The change may have had to do with changing attitudes towards race and with Hollywood's dawning wariness about offending blacks." The article has been altered accordingly Dermot 19:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Concur with Dermot on this. I've never run across "high brown" before, but I've seen "high-yaller" in print, where it was used by a black person to refer to another (light-skinned) black person who, in the speaker's opinion, was getting above his station.  I've also heard "yellow" used by a black person to refer to a light-skinned woman who wouldn't bother with him (I think "stuck-up yella b****" was the turn of phrase used).  The term's about as judgmentally neutral as "half-breed".  I suspect the term "high-brown" may have been invented by the songwriter for Negroes who act white, but aren't even light-skinned.
 * Kudos to Sussmanbern for doing the original research on this song. I've taken the liberty of reformatting the lyrics slightly, to better illustrate the meter and rhyme scheme (the latter varies from stanza to stanza, but most consistently it's "ABABCC"), which are part of what make this song such an enduring favorite. For more info on what makes it feel so odd, look up "syncopation", a musical structure popular in the 1920s; see also "Ragtime Cowboy Joe".  My apologies - I fully recognize that they may not have been formatted this way when originally printed.
 * Also corrected "bevee" to "bevy", meaning "a plethora".
 * And finally... I think every Wikipedia article about a song should include the lyrics. Multiple versions, if more than one widely-accepted version exists (the original version of "Why "Don't You Do Right", for instance, included one more stanza than the version used in the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"). And sheet music, copyright law permitting. That might help upgrade this article to more than a stub. CHR0MEdome (talk) 11:14, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

¶ I think the original (racist) lyrics had it "White spats and FIFTEEN dollars" (instead of "lots of dollars").Sussmanbern (talk) 23:08, 25 December 2012 (UTC) ¶ Correct - original lyric does have it "White spats and fifteen dollars" - also, previous line should read "High hats and colored collars" - finally, line 1, verse 4 should read (minor edit) "we'll attend their Jubilee" - (wonder if that's a reference to "Marching Through Georgia"?) Redpaul1 (talk) 19:52, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Disagree btw, mildly, with the assertion that 'high-yellow' is necessarily judgemental, though I would certainly concede that it's very old-fashioned. I first came across the expression in Jamaica nearly 40 years ago, where it simply meant someone light-skinned, but not white. The example CHR0MEdome quotes doesn't really support the argument that it's judgemental: "stuck up black b***" for example couldn't be used as an illustration of how 'black' is a judgemental or racist term. Context, as ever, is king.
 * In that context(!), imagine how the 1929 lyrics would sound today if the original recording had been by Duke Ellington - that really would have given the lyrics a satirical quality: "All misfits - Puttin' On The Ritz"... Redpaul1 (talk) 19:52, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

In addition to the original 1930 picture and the 1946 Astaire movie, I believe there was a low-budget decidedly non-pc movie that featured this song (and, I thought, used it for its title -- but IMDB knows nothing of it). It was about a white vaudeville entertainer whose entire act seemed to be getting up in blackface and raggedly clothes and singing this song (the old lyrics about "where Harlem sits", and apparently it's the only song used in this flick) -- evidently his stage name was "Country Boy" Something. At some point in the movie he abandons his wife and infant daughter, and then about 15 years later, doing vaudevillian backwaters in the same shtick he encounters a 20-something girl - also white also in blackface - who doesn't recognize him but tells him that her dad was known as "Country Boy" whatever, so she has continued the family trade and does blackface vaudeville as "Country Girl" Something. I saw this on local TV many years ago - I think the station was giving all its Stepen Fetchet, Amos and Andy, and other old racist films one last showing before it had a big bonfire of them. Maybe this vague recollection is enough for someone to play detective. Sussmanbern 23:52, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

The song is used in an internet phenomenon, where, if synched to a clip collection of the surrender of Japan on the USS Missouri
Really?. Google doesn't show anything. Youtube has a total of one video and that is just some retard showing A SINGLE picture then dancing around in his room. Doesn't something need to be on the internet to be "an internet phenomenon"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.6.18 (talk) 12:26, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Rhythm
The vocal melody song has a clever, tricksy rhythm that seems to dance around the words. Is this notably unusual, or is it just a case of odd phrasing? The article doesn't talk much about the musical construction of the song. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 11:42, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Good point. Musical analysis added. D7240 (talk) 19:07, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Crackers
Didn't Ritz Crackers use this song in their advertising for a while back in the early days? I know they are of similar vintage - the crackers were first sold just 5 years after the song was written. I seem to recall seeing some old vintage ads where they played a (modified lyrics) version of this song advertising the crackers. Lurlock (talk) 04:18, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Taco put an old man's song on the charts
I heard that Taco charting it made Irving Berlin (then still alive) the oldest person to ever chart so high... not sure that can be turned into an encyclopedic fact but there it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.175.101.2 (talk) 01:18, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Jeeves and Wooster theme?
The Jeeves and Wooster page says that the show's theme was an original composition by Anne Dudley, and her web site suggests the same -- http://www.annedudley.co.uk/Default.aspx?page=29&node=42 - so I'm not sure what the source is for the claim that it's "Puttin' on the Ritz". trystero11 (talk) 23:04, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I was thinking the same thing myself after seeing J&W listed in the entry. So I've decided to be BOLD and remove it. If someone can provide a source that the Jeeves & Wooster theme is a reworking of Puttin' on the Ritz it can go back in. ~ Brother William (talk) 01:15, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

¶ I don't know about their theme, but there was an episode where Wooster was trying to play it on the piano. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VGItt9cCgc  - Sussmanbern (talk) 23:14, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Banned in Nazi Germany?
Can anybody tell me if this song was banned in WWII by Nazi Germany? Dexter Nextnumber (talk) 02:26, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * If it wasn't banned, it was compulsory. Kid Bugs (talk) 01:56, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

prominence of Taco version
The current page features the Taco version very prominently. Obviously, this version is famous but so are many other versions. I think both the special section devoted to it and the graphic that shows us Taco's singles over time are not necessary; links to Taco would be perfect. If the Taco section stays, can it at least explain why this deserves its special mention ? Dirkjot (talk) 09:43, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I removed the extended track list regarding the Taco recording that included songs with little or no connection. 76.102.1.129 (talk) 09:53, 30 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Agree with comment. The 2013 deletions were very appropriate. As it reads today, IMHO, there's still too much emphasis on the Taco version for an encyclopedia article. While the Taco cover is the one that's stuck in my mind, I had no idea who sang it, nor do I have much recollection of the prominence of Taco at the time, or now. This isn't unusual since I am by no means a musicologist. However, I think that makes me the target audience for encyclopedia articles - someone who wants to know more about a topic who is not an expert.


 * Following the link to the Taco article, it appears that he's pretty close to what is referred to as a one hit wonder and that this song was his one hit. It says it was the only one in the top 40 in the US, and while popularity in the US should not be the measure of what makes a topic important, there's no mention of his achieving more fame elsewhere. The upshot of all this is that other than for his making the song popular again, his is just one cover among many.


 * Recommend that all but first paragraph of the article be moved from the intro so that it's the main body of the article, that it be followed by a section on the covers of the song, and that Taco's cover be listed chronologically in that discussion. It's fine for there to be a separate section for his cover, but this isn't some obscure song that we only know of because of some late 20th Century singer. The song has an interesting history and that context should be the content of the article. Ileanadu (talk) 13:11, 5 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree that the Taco cover is overemphasized relative to its importance. Following Ileanadu's suggestion I moved some of the lede into the body of the article, though I'm not that satisfied with the section headings I came up with. AJD (talk) 17:27, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

The Super Duper Gary Cooper
This article doesn't mention the mention of Gary Cooper, and his article doesn't mention the song. Since he's mentioned fairly prominently in the chorus, it might make sense to at least make a note of it. &mdash;Gordon P. Hemsley&rarr; &#x2709; 14:08, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Young Frankenstein?
No mention whatsoever of the song's use in "Young Frankenstein"?!? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.2.133.105 (talk) 19:54, 1 February 2019 (UTC)