Talk:Pyreflies

D'oh! I went and wrote a Pyreflies article thinking one didn't already exist (its not linked from anywhere, is it!?) only to find that stub in place went I came to create the page! My plans to have more than one credit for article creation are scuppered again! ;) Anyway, I've replaced the stub with the updated content and, without saying anything else at this point, I'd be interested in any response to the new article... leave a note here or on my Talk page if you so wish. Gamemaker 12:33, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Great job! Very informative and well-written. I just now added a picture of pyreflies to top things off.PiccoloNamek 13:51, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I've made a few slight corrections. The enmity of the unsent dead can attract Pyreflies, but not in the sense that this is what allows a dead spirit to become a fiend. Rather, spiritual energy is pyreflies and the pyreflies of an individual who is not Sent manifest physically as either a fiend or an Unsent depending on the individual. The Ultimania Omega Guide confirms this, though it's consistently made apparent throughout Final Fantasy X as well. It is true that pyreflies can be attracted to enmity, though (as they are with Omega's hate drawing powerful fiends to him, or Shuyin's enmity drawing pyrefiles to the Den of Woe until it was filled with them), but it would be more accurate to say that they're attracted to areas of powerful emotion in general.

Also, Pyreflies do not cause problems in Spira per se. Rather, they can be used for any purpose. They themselves are no more a cause of problems than a gun is on its own.

By the way, the article is sort of incorrect at this time in identifying the Shuyin seen throughout Final Fantasy X-2 as not the real him. The only "fake" form of him is seen in the Den of Woe, where his powerful emotions did, indeed, become imprinted upon Pyreflies, and remained there even after he had left in Nooj's body. While he's referred to as a "shadow" and it's said that his emotions began to act on their own, this is in reference to him being a shadow of who he was, his former self nearly altogether buried by his despair and animosity toward both Bevelle and himself (he felt that he had failed Lenne), inspiring him to destroy the whole world so that he may vanish. Much like Yu Yevon become totally driven only by the summoning of Dream Zanarkand, Shuyin became totally consumed by his despair and the desire for destruction. Weird things can happen to Unsent. In Lady Ginnem's case, she was pretty much a fiend, though she still retained her human form. She didn't even have any of her humanity left in her. Even though she was -- for all intents and purposes -- gone, it was still her spiritual energy, and her form would not appear in the Farplane until this fiend-like apparition of her that remained was dealt with.

There were various other corrections that needed to be made. I've seen to them all.

Ryu Kaze February 9, 2006


 * Thanks for clearing up some of my uncertainties. The only thing that seems to raise some doubt in my mind is the assertion that referring to Shuyin as a 'shadow' is just a figure of speech - is this explicitly covered in the UOG too? Incidentally is this Guide an official publication? I just looked it up and it doesn't display any Square-Enix branding. Anyway, if so then I bow to its authority on the matter. >Gamemaker 23:53, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. On the subject of Shuyin, he's discussed at length in the UOG and the implication seems to be that he's him even while he's not him in the sense that he used to be. Obviously the original Shuyin wouldn't have wanted to destroy the world as his Unsent self did. He merely wanted to use Vegnagun to destroy Bevelle out of revenge. He changed, but that's probably more a result of his nature as an Unsent than anything else. Unsent are tricky in defining because while there is a standard definition for what they are and how they come to be, no two Unsent are exactly the same.

For example, the standard of how they come to be is that they must first have a powerful will and second they require a powerful emotion. The combination of these two things will keep them bound to the world. It usually is depicted as being a result of feelings of unfinished business (Auron's promises to Jecht and Braska, Mika's desire to ensure that the people of Spira kept hope, Seymour's desire to "free" Spira's people, Belgemine's desire to train other Summoners, Maechen's thirst for knowledge, Yunalesca's desire to carry out her father's wishes but to ensure that Spira didn't lose hope, Jyscal's desire that his son's twisted ambitions be put to an end, etc.), and these people tend to either go on to the Farplane when their business is settled or when what is keeping them in the world of the living goes away. However, there are a couple of notable exceptions, one of which is Shuyin, and the other of which is Lady Ginnem.

It's probably safe to assume that Ginnem became an Unsent at first out of feelings of duty to the people of Spira and a desire to vanquish Sin, though it's never identified for certain. For whatever reason, however, she did become an Unsent and over time, she lost her humanity and become something akin to a fiend but in her living vessel's guise. She was still technically an Unsent, and even still had the ability to summon Aeons. In her case, she goes on to the Farplane without a Sending when her Aeon is defeated. Despite her humanity being gone, I would speculate that even while she lost her former identity, some part of her buried consciousness held onto the idea that she was a Summoner and that her purpose was to use the art of Summoning to aid the people of Spira, but with most of her consciousness clouded, all that remained was the focus on summoning but to no particular end. Seeing her Aeon get defeated caused her to let go of her grip on the mortal world and go on to the Farplane, most likely because the summoning itself was all that remained of who she was, and with that being taken down, she had no bond left to the world of the living that she could remember.

In Shuyin's case, to be sure he didn't become an Unsent at first out of a desire to destroy the world, but the exact cause is kind of left unclear. All that's made obvious is that his powerful feelings kept him bound to the living world. Perhaps his original intent was to see if he could still save Lenne or even to get revenge on Bevelle. Who knows? But for whatever reason, his spirit wandered until it came to rest in the cave beneath Mushroom Rock Road, and in time, he'd become the Shuyin we see in the game. Much like Ginnem, his former intent in remaining bound to the living world vanished and began to be replaced by a desire for destruction. Rather than chaotic destruction like Ginnem's spirit seemed to be disposed toward, Shuyin's despair and hate were very powerful and made him very focused as a result: He wanted to destroy everything.

He kind of pulled a Seymour, really. Main difference being that Seymour's desire couldn't be curbed by anything, whereas Shuyin just needed to know that Lenne loved him and didn't blame him for what happened. He really blamed himself. It's odd to say it, but Shuyin's humanity is what made him become the fiend-like Unsent that he was. Certain aspects of his humanity just became buried under the surface, but his love for Lenne was always the strongest emotion in his soul. That's why Lenne could still reach him and make him be like he was before. His desire for destruction was great, as was his enmity toward the living, but his hatred of himself was greater than all of that, and he just wanted it all to end. He wanted to stop seeing what happened to himself and Lenne. He wanted to stop being reminded of his "failure." That, sadly, led him to do some terrible things. Fortunately, his hate of himself and everything else was second to his love for Lenne, so he wasn't beyond redemption, or, at the very least, sanity.

So, yeah, it is him, but for most of the game, he's like a fiend.

As for the Ultimanias, they are definitely official Square-Enix publications. Square-Enix actually publishes them theirselves (if you see an Ultimania that says "Published by DigiCube," it's the same thing; DigiCube is Squaresoft's former publishing subsidiary; Square-Enix disbanded it a couple of years ago). I'm not sure why you didn't see the Square-Enix name on the book you looked at. It should be right on the front cover near the title. You can see it in this image:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/animebooks-com_1879_227161892

I hope I answered your questions somewhere in all that. Sorry if it was a bit long.

- Ryu Kaze 03:51, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the info. Maybe it's time to learn Japanese =) Regarding the authenticity, while searching I ended up here, which is why I wasn't sure it was official. >Gamemaker 14:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)