Talk:Pyrokinesis/Archive 1

Pyrokinetic child
Someone should put the Pyrokinetic child from the Philippines. It was on the NEWS since March. Checkout one of the links I found: http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/9522508-reallife-firestarter-girl-from-philippines-sent-to-hospital-for-burns — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.9.106 (talk) 14:11, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Personal Commentaries
I added the header to this discussion (by an indeterminate number of unidentified posters) to tidy the page a little and get everything under the index. Septegram 21:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Pyrokinesis is a power that is part of Psi. Psi is a power that is atact with the mined. Pyrokinesis is a Psi power that alows you to controle fire. It is pritty cool to me. I just hope that I dont git my self bernt.

Well my faverit power would be TK, that means telekinesis. It is Relly cool becuse telekinesis you can pick up objects. With TK you could do some thing werid like pick up people with out tuching them. So there would be thing like boxes moveing around and fliying into walls.

Pyrokinesis Could chang being in the cold to being in Florda. Well that is more thin I could say.

--

Perhaps you should do more research into psionics before you claim what one can and cannot do. Trying to do the things you mentioned would be a good way to kill yourself instantly.

I agree with you very much, you will hurt yourself and others around you.
 * I think you'll find the most these "pyrokinetics" claim to be able to do is putting out matches.

--

I think it should say real pyrokinetic abilities and not the fake ones done in comic books.

--

Pyrokinesis is a topic that seems to be either incredibly broad or narrow. I've been discussing the topic with several of my friends and we're interested into any scientific research into the psionic ability. A few questions that have rose while talking to those friends are:

Does Pryokinesis limit itself to the creation of fire? Does it include the control of the speed of particles after a flame has been created? (This has already been answered in the article I believe) Are there any theories, opposed to conclusive evidence, to how the mind could be capable of creating/moving/destroying a flame? Do any noticible cases involving claimed pyrokinesis exist?

Looking to the article, I notice it's only three sentences. Ouch. Then there is a lack of description below the 'In Fiction' portion, all that exists being a link to the main article. I would love it if someone could find some supposed cases of pyrokinesis and place the claimed strengths of the ability. Perhaps someone could find a link between fire, which has been shown to effect power lines with it's electromagnetic field, and the human mind.

I will look for some research and cases and I hope others will do so also. I believe this article could be longer without the need to dedicate a portion to fiction.

Clean up
Why not take down the multitude of listed names and put them all in a category? :) Dlohcierekim 01:02, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and put Category:Fictional people with pyrokinesis o all the charactes with pages. :) Dlohcierekim 02:55, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 * We need to put back the list of things that you are capable doing with pyrokinesis, otherwise the section should be called "Pyrokinetic people" not "Pyrokinesis." --Anyr 15:58, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm only posting this to emphasise the fact that pyrokinesis is a psionic/psychic ability, not simply the ability to generate/manipulate flame and heat. Although the two go hand-in-hand as far as their functionality, one is produced by the power of the mind and the other is physical. Not to mention, the likelihood that a person could manipulate flame psionically (if only on an extremely subtle level) isn't ruled out as a possibility, where as the vast number of things that a comic book superhuman can do with that ability is clearly fictional (as far as we know...nothing's impossible). Lumping the Wikipedia definition of pyrokinesis in almost entirely with comic book fiction somewhat trivializes that possibility, making it less of a paranormal phenomenon and more of a cartoonish idea. The Wikipedia definition of psychokinesis isn't simply a list of telekinetic fictional characters that toss tractors at people with a pissed off thought. Why, then, should pyrokinesis be? Just a question. I'm not some hardcore pyrokinesis enthusiast. I'm just trying to do my little part in keeping Wikipedia as consistent as it can be.Chaosphere 12:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)Chaosphere

Thinking of adding a listing to the References section
But, it looks as if you all want to clean that out or otherwise change it. Reference Additions:

Fire Blast / Fire Manipulation "Blaster" powersets from City of Heroes Fire Assault / Thermal Radiation "Corruptor" powersets from City of Villains

Both games have a 'pyrokinetic' class. The Blaster is your classic example of pyrokinesis - thrown flames, fireballs, flame breath, immolating targets at close range, using flames as shields, using flames to imprison, creating 'fire showers' that affect a wide area, all the way up to a character-centered explosive blast that levels pretty much everything.

The Corruptor is more an 'evil counterpart' - the focus here is also damage from fire or heat, but the Corruptor also focuses on encasing their allies in shields of flame, or emitting flames that heal themselves or allies within range.

I will have to find the 'official' write-up of both character classes (and all four powersets) and link them in as references, once I get home from work and have access to the official game sites.

Regards, --Professor Blues 14:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Article Splitting
A suggestion for the people watching this article. Perhaps you could split this page, one dealing with the psi phenomena of pyrokinesis, and another that deal with it's fictional uses. It's my understanding that the goal for this page is to look more like the other parapsychology pages and not just a place to promote people's favourite fictional firestarters. CKalhoon 18:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Pyrokinesis in fiction is now open for business. Please move all discussion for fictional fire powers to that page and this can be about only the psi phenomenon. CKalhoon 14:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * THANK YOU!


 * Why move the fiction material when there's almost no nonfiction material, though? Doczilla 07:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

pyrokineticist??
early in the article: "[pyrokinesis] is purported to be the postulated psi ability to manipulate a flame, or control it."

later in the article: "Pyro (comics) is not a pyrokineticist because although he can manipulate fire, he cannot create it."

consider changing one of these statements to accomodate the other. and oh yeah, i don't think i've heard the word 'pyrokineticist' before. maybe it's just me. 74.121.48.170 23:18, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * A pyrokinetic would be the appropriate term for such a person. --Chr.K. 07:23, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

doesn't pyrokinetic mean someone who can totally manipulate fire, if someone is a pyrokinetic, that means they can start, become and control fires, right? JCno1fan 20:48, 12 July 2007

Pyrokinetic is an adjective. Pyrokineticist is a proper noun. Calling someone a pyrokinetic wouldn't be much different than calling Harry Potter a magical. The use of the adjective in place of the proper noun is generally accepted by many in the Sci-Fi community, but it's not grammatically correct. MarkoOhNo (talk) 02:46, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Definition
I believe that "manipulating flames" was the definition of fictional pyrokinesis; the supposed "real" psi ability claims to be able to heat or burn objects. Anyone who knows anything about parapsychology, please give this article some help. Noclevername 21:26, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

And while we're at it, would it be possible for someone to add a category regarding people who claim to have it rather than a bunch of fictional characters? Crazies deserve a spot too. 70.70.97.117 (talk) 06:06, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Merge
[Disussion concluded, Pryokinesis in Fiction was merged into this article. 5Q5 (talk) 16:24, 20 December 2010 (UTC)]


 * Why not just merge this with Pryokinesis in Fiction? There are no cases of this in non-fiction. --CF90 23:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That's an opinion, not a provable fact (I agree with you, but that's not relevant). This is an encyclopedia; all it should do is point out evidence for/against, not make blanket statements about controversial subjects. At present, this is barely an article, it's a placeholder for future information. Noclevername 23:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge - There's really not a reason to separate them. Neither article is large enough to justify being split. Anybody looking for instances of pyrokinesis in fiction is probably going to start by typing in pyrokinesis anyway, so naming conventions becomes a consideration - they state that the most common and least complicated should be used. CovenantD 07:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect Pyrokinesis in fiction into pyrokinesis per above. This article is just a dicdef as things stand, except for a link to the other, real article. --N Shar 23:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter whether or not cases are real (WP:V handles that), all that matters is that the terminology is real. I.e that this wasn't made up for some film or other. perfectblue 10:17, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge and redirect Pyrokinesis in fiction to pyrokinesis. Pyrokinesis should be the main article with the fictional part a section in the article. Pyrokinesis is technically a specialized ability of psychokinesis (the umbrella term); specifically micro-TK because it involves speeding up atomic movement/vibration to cause ignition (just as freezing is the opposite). Pyrokinesis is listed in the "See also" section on the PK page. In my research, I have come across cases of temperature rising and spontaneous fires in real PK cases. I'm the main author of the PK article. Merging these two pyro articles is not something I have time to do, but I am working on adding a one-line mention about pyrokinesis and freezing in the PK article under telekinesis. Good luck to the editor who does the merge. 5Q5 13:42, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Should these really be there?
This is the list of articles in the "see Also" section of the article: Shoudl any of these really be there? Because, it seems to me, that these have just been put there for no other reason than to create a "See Also" list for the article. --JB Adder | Talk 06:16, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Pyro
 * Spontaneous human combustion
 * Firestarter
 * Liz Sherman


 * Agreed, three of them belong under the Pyr. in Fiction article and the other has no real connection to this article. I'm removing them. Noclevername 19:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Missed out cultural refrences
I havn't got a log in, can someone add these for me. Hellboy, theirs a girl in that who can use those powers. In X-men theirs a bloke who deals combustable cards. Also in super smash bros a computer game for the GC, their is a boy called ness who can use a move called PK fire a form of pyrokinesis. Also to a certain degree the marvel comics the fab 4 feturing the human torch also had pyro powers.


 * You do't need to be logged in to edit; however, these items all belong in the Pyrokinesis in fiction article, not here. Noclevername 21:22, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Expert needed
I re-added the Expert tag after someone inexplicably deleted it. I tried to ref the tag to WikiProject Paranormal, but I can't figure out how to do that; can someone please help? Noclevername 18:47, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Did it! Yay! Noclevername 20:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi. What are you trying to acheive with the "expert" tag. How can there be an "expert" on this? And assuming an "expert" existed and is editing here, s/he like does not need us to tell him/her about this article. I will remove the tag soon because all it does is add to a backlog. --Justanother 18:28, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

New People to be added?
shouldn't Portgas D. Ace be added to this list of pyrokinetics? JCno1fan 19:06, 12 July 2007

There was also a character in the Dreadstar comic series, Malchek, who was a pyrokinetic. This was in issue #34, published by First Comics in 1987.Kuahmel (talk) 00:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Emma Piggott
Case of Emma Piggott -- and the fires in the home of her employers were just about what the girl, alarmed by the greediness of her thefts, may have wished for. Also there are data that may mean that, because of experiences unknown to anybody else, this girl knew that, from a distance, she could start fires.

There is an appearance of affinity between the Piggott case and the fires in the house in Bedford. There was a sulphur fire that was ordinary. It was followed by a series of fires that were, at least according to the impressions in Bedford, extraordinary. In no terms of physics, nor of chemistry, was an explanation possible; yet investigators felt that a relationship of some kind did exist. The relationship [266/267] may have existed in the mind of Anne Fennimore. After the sulphur fire had been put out, she may have started fearing fires, especially in the absence of the only male member of the household. Her fear may have been realized.

http://www.resologist.net/talent25.htm

Her case has been documented and witnessed. --70.126.236.103 05:58, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I think Aya Brea from the video game series "Parasite Eve2" should be added in the list of people unde the video games category?
I think Aya Brea from the video game "Parasite Eve 2" should be added in the video games, since she has one of her powers called "Pyrokinesis". Well pyrokinesis is a fire element in her arsenal of parasite powers aside from the wind, water, and earth elements.

139.168.126.65

the pineal gland
The pineal gland was the last endocrine gland to have its function discovered. Its location deep in the brain seemed to indicate its importance. This combination led to its being a "mystery" gland with myth, superstition and even metaphysical theories surrounding its perceived function.

The pineal gland is occasionally associated with the sixth chakra (also called Ajna or the third eye chakra in yoga). It is believed by some to be a dormant organ that can be awakened to enable "telepathic" communication.

In the physical body the eye views objects upside down. It sends the image of what it observes to the brain which interprets the image and makes it appear right side-up to us.

But the human body has another physical eye whose function has long been recognized by humanity. It is called the 'Third Eye' which in reality is the Pineal Gland. It is long thought to have mystical powers. Many consider it the Spiritual Third Eye, our Inner Vision.

It is located in the geometric center of the brain. This correlates to the location of the Great Pyramid in the center of the physical planet.

The Pineal Gland is about the size of a pea, and is in the center of the brain in a tiny cave behind and above the pituitary gland which lies a little behind the root of the nose. It is located directly behind the eyes, attached to the third ventricle.

The true function of this mysterious gland has long been contemplated by philosophers and Spiritual Adepts. Ancient Greeks believed the pineal gland to be our connection to the Realms of Thought.

Rene Descartes called it the Seat of the Soul, believing it is unique in the anatomy of the human brain in being a structure not duplicated on the right and left sides. This observation is not true, however; under a microscope one finds the pineal gland is divided into two fine hemispheres.

This gland is activated by Light, and it controls the various biorhythms of the body. It works in harmony with the hypothalamus gland which directs the body's thirst, hunger, sexual desire and the biological clock that determines our aging process.

When the pineal gland awakens one feels a pressure at the base of the brain. This pressure will often be experienced when connecting to higher frequency. A head injury can also activate the Third Eye - Pineal Gland.

While the physiological function of the pineal gland has been unknown until recent times, mystical traditions and esoteric schools have long known this area in the middle of the brain to be the connecting link between the physical and spiritual worlds. Considered the most powerful and highest source of ethereal energy available to humans, the pineal gland has always been important in initiating supernatural powers. Development of psychic talents has been closely associated with this organ of higher vision. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Teriko (talk • contribs) 19:35, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The Pineal Gland produces melatonin. The cells in it share a common ancestry with retinal cells. It would not have much to do with PyroKinesis. However if one were to be altered in such a way as to vent a flammable substance from ones pores, as well as somehow reduce the flammability of ones cells, perhaps thermophilic DNA, then you would have a biological basis for pyrokinesis. Now perhaps glands on the hand could form a small "bag", and fill it with flammable substances, detach that from the body as means of combat you would have a biological fireball. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.79.248.160 (talk) 02:05, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Proposed Deletion
This article serves very little purpose; it is essentially a list of characters, and as such is a duplicate of information found here: List of fictional characters who can manipulate fire. Nutiketaiel (talk) 13:14, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong keep. The article has filled out some more and is just waiting for further editor input. A new version of the movie "Firestarter" is in the works and so this article will undoubtedly grow. 5Q5 (talk) 16:36, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think you really need to vote on this proposal at this point 5Q5. It's two years old and the article being referred to no longer exists. The proposal has expired. -- Fyrefly (talk) 23:04, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Regarding The Unfortunate Coinage Quote
The footnote referring to the S. T. Joshi quote seems incomplete to me. Specifically, he (Joshi) seems to suggest or assume that King's coinage is based on analogy to the word "telekenesis" and suggests that the word "telepyrosis" is a better fit. That said, I'm not sure how to include the info into the article without violating some Wiki guideline. --DLWormwood (talk) 19:12, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with S. T. Joshi! This is a terrible coinage.  I have attempted to expand on your reference in the opening paragraph.  It would be good to have Joshi's full quote included, however.  Runsninth (talk) 12:38, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * So long as it is not original research... Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:49, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


 * So your objection is that I rephrased S. T. Joshi's assertions using my own language? In which case, can I please ask someone who has access to Joshi's book to post a fuller quote from it? Runsninth (talk) 02:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Telepyrosis and Pyrokinesis would be different. Telepyrosis would be causing fires at a distance. Pyrokinesis is manipulating said fire. Two different things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.79.248.160 (talk) 02:08, 14 December 2012 (UTC)


 * "Telekensis" is movement at a distant. Yet the term is used to describe moving objects with the mind, so "Telepyrosis" would be moving fire with the mind. ZNickel (talk) 21:27, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Raz and others with multiple powers
The reason that I've removed Raz from Psychonauts multiple times is that pyrokinesis is just one of many powers that he can possess throughout the game. It is not his first, nor his most important power. If we were to include every videogame character that had any fire ability, then we might as well start with Mario and we'd have a list thousands long. I realize that Raz's ability is specifically called pyrokinesis in the game, but it seems like a very slippery slope to me. I would propose only including characters whose primary ability is pyrokinesis so that the list doesn't get out of control. It already takes up more than half of the article.

Book of the Damned has case examples
For researchers working on this article, in the back of King's book "Firestarter" he mentions two of Charles Fort's books Lo! and The Book of the Damned as works where he did research. I saw the latter in a bookstore yesterday and can confirm it has newspaper case reports from early history of mysterious fires starting around or caused by people. The term "pyrokinesis" is not specifically used however. I counted it used four times in the text of King's "Firestarter" and once in the back author's note. 5Q5 (talk) 16:33, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Narrowing down our list of examples
According to the intro of this article, pyrokinesis is the ability to create and/or control fire with the mind. I'd encourage editors to remember this definition when deciding on characters to add to the examples list. With that in mind, I think we should seriously consider removing characters whose abilities are explicitly stated to not be psionic. This would include characters who specifically use magic, alchemy, etc to control fire. However, characters who "control the element of fire" seem to fit into our definition just fine (in my opinion). Any thoughts on this? -- Fyrefly (talk) 19:14, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

I've done some, mainly removing non-notable examples and removing examples of pyrotechnics (such as the Bombs in Final Fantasy). 66.59.49.88 (talk) 16:48, 8 May 2012 (UTC)