Talk:Quadraphonic sound/Archive 1

Quadraphonic is not a fraud
142.177.127.64: It seems that the webpage link you posted refers to quad LPs as a "fraud" if they are not discrete. I agree with the site that matrix quadraphonic is not an accurate representation of the original multichannel content, but I disagree that a matrix reproduction should be labelled "fraud". TMC1221 00:57, 25 February 2004 (UTC)

I deleted the article "Quadraphonic LPs a fraud," because the article itself is merely a fraud. It claims that Quad records were merely Stereo albums specially promoted to get listeners to buy more expensive equipment. This is simply untrue. This article is an insult to the many mixers who worked on the Quadraphonic records of the 1970s, creating the true surround mixes. (Sugar Bear 17:50, 29 November 2005 (UTC))

Market analysis would be nice
A request for the experts: I think the article would benefit greatly from an analysis of the market. How many of the main stereo manufacturers made quadraphonic equipment, and of what type? What were the sales like? Who was buying quadraphonic equipment, and why weren't the rest of the populace? How many artists came out with quadraphonic albums? Which countries was it better promoted in? As a notorious failure (at market) of a new technology, this sort of analysis would be extremely interesting. Tempshill 21:22, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Deletion of UHJ / B-format section
I removed the UHJ/B-format section altogether because UHJ and B-format are components of Ambisonics, and Ambisonics is unconnected with quad. I did add a link to the Ambisonics article in the "See also" section.

The reference for this is the Ambisonic Surround Sound FAQ. As I created and maintain this, I will explain a little more. With Ambisonics it is possible to decode three-channel B-format to any number of speakers. The minimum number of speakers for this first-order, horizontal Ambisonics is four, but the resultant soundfield tends to be on the limits of stability. Six speakers is much more stable. You can add additional channels to the B-format to give full-sphere, for which you need at least six speakers. See, nothing really in there to do with quad. Martin.leese 05:07, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

For reference, here is the section I deleted:

====UHJ / B-format====

In Ambisonics B-format, known as first-order Ambisonics, sound information is encoded into 4 channels: W (pressure signal), X (front-back information), Y (left-right information) and Z (up-down). Ambisonics UHJ coding can be used to produce stereo compatible Ambisonic records, tapes and broadcasts.

The X, Y and W signals are matrixed into two channels using the following transform:

j = + 90º phase-shift, k = - 90º phase-shift

Wendy Carlos on Quadraphonic
Wendy Carlos (a.k.a. Walter Carlos) of "Switched-On Bach" fame has a very interesting web site on Quadraphonic and surround sound, with lots of history. See http://www.wendycarlos.com/gosurround.html


 * Wendy (formerly Walter) is well respected in the audio community. I have therefore added her to the "External links" section.  Martin.leese 05:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Addition of External link to Hafler circuit
I want to add an External link to my Web page which shows the circuit for a Hafler circuit. The Hafler circuit is described in the Quadraphonic section. As this would be a link to my Web page, for me to add it without discussing it here first would be a potential conflict of interest. Martin.leese 01:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Nobody objected so done. Martin.leese 06:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Matrix H
Updated detail with reference to original announcements in Wireless World, and showing the path that led to Ambisonic UHJ. Paul Hodges 11:44, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sq logo.png
Image:Sq logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Fixed. Binksternet (talk) 13:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:UD4 logo.png
Image:UD4 logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 12:33, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Fixed. Binksternet (talk) 13:59, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Qs logo.png
Image:Qs logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 08:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Fixed. Stupid bot. Binksternet (talk) 14:00, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Quadradisk logo.png
Image:Quadradisk logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 08:53, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Fixed. Binksternet (talk) 14:01, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Cd4 logo.png
Image:Cd4 logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Fixed by MBisanz (talk) 18 February 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by HairyWombat (talk • contribs) 04:03, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Quadra/ophonic
The title is "Quadraphonic", but the entire text uses the word "Quadrophonic". Which is correct? From my language (Croatian), I know it as "Quadrophonic" ("Kvadrofonija") arny (talk) 10:30, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Both spellings have been used in English, but the 'o' spelling has far less authority. It's been used by bloggers, eBay sellers, musicians, journalists and a small collection of experts in their patent applications and reports. Some of these industry documents have both spellings within them! The 'o' spelling appears to be an honest mistake made by English-speaking writers. A much greater number of patent applications use the 'a' spelling; the same goes for Journal of Audio Engineering Society articles and IEEE publications. The spelling "quadraphonic" is the correct, accepted version. Binksternet (talk) 15:15, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Whatever the case, the article or title should be changed to be consistent. Perhaps we should discuss/vote here? If Binksternet is right, we should move the page and create a redirect. Comments? --arny (talk) 18:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I didn't suggest moving the page; it works quite well where it is. Instead, I just edited the article to change nearly every instance of the 'o' spelling to be the correct English 'a' spelling. Binksternet (talk) 20:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

CD4 - Shibata stylus
The description of the Shibata stylus is incorrect - the article states "the Shibata stylus greatly reduced the contact area of the stylus on the walls of the record groove" but it is in fact the opposite: the Shibata stylus had a larger contact area, which reduced wear because the tracking force was distributed over a wider area. Originally stylus tips were spherical, which resulted in a very small contact area (theoretically a single point but in practice a small area due to deformation of the vinyl under the stylus pressure). Elliptical stylii were then introduced which increased the contact area, reducing wear and increasing fidelity; and the Shibata stylus (also known as hyper-elliptical or line contact) was an extension of this development. The article is correct to point out that the Shibata stylus could give improved playback from a disc already worn by a spherical stylus, since it would maintain contact with un-worn parts of the groove wall. Phosph (talk) 22:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Matrix decoder cannot be main article
Somebody added to the Matrix section. The article Matrix decoder does not confine itself to quad matrix decoders, nor does it include all of the quad ones. The article therefore cannot be the main article for the Matrix section of this Quadraphonic sound article. HairyWombat (talk) 13:59, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

The same user has now added. Unfortunately, the article Matrix decoder actually contains less information on the quad matricies than this article. There is nothing in the Matrix decoder article, relating to the quad systems, that is not already in the Matrix section of this Quadraphonic sound article. I have added Matrix decoder to the See also section. HairyWombat (talk) 16:34, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

This word does not make sense!
I can tell by the 2 elements attatched together that this word does not make sense. "-phonic" is a Greek suffix as I can tell because it has a ph instead of an f, which means it comes from the Greek letter phi. However, quadra- is the Latin numerical prefix for 4; the Greek equivalent is tetra-. Who was the first person to coin this word?? Any comments about it?? 66.245.99.97 21:47, 4 October 2004 (UTC)


 * Compare to homosexual and, I presume, many other words. Hyacinth 00:26, 5 October 2004 (UTC)


 * The word was coined back in the 1970s. Bit late to change it now.  Martin.leese 05:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hafler, Scheiber and CBS used "Quadraphonic." Other words were "Quadrasonic", used by Cooper and Shiga, and "Surround sound" by Michael Gerzon. Also found, "Quadriphonic", "Quadrophonic", and "Tetrasound".  Much of this was centered on trademark issues. Martinwill2 07:47, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * So bloody what? Are you (66.245.99.97) also claiming that "television" makes no sense, because it too is a mixture of Greek and Latin?  Or "hexadecimal", for the same reason?  Or "microchip", which is a mixture of Greek and (IIRC) Old German?  Or...?
 * There are innumerable words with hybrid derivations out there; nobody seriously claims that they "make no sense" because of this. 217.171.129.72 (talk) 08:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Or dinosaur, for that matter, another mixed-language neologism. Neologisms can be whatever their creators want them to be.

WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 11:26, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Bravo74.89.56.47 (talk) 00:14, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Matrix section does not adequately explain matrixing
The Matrix section doesn't do an adequate job of explaining itself, and it lacks references.

It mentions a 90º phase-shift - of what? Phase is timing of a signal, but mixed-down music is not a periodic signal and as such describing its phase in "degrees" is meaningless, unless you use the moderately incorrect "180º" which signifies a similarly incorrectly named phase inversion. The only periodic thing involved in playing a vinyl is the rotation of the record - is that what is meant by 90º shift?

Frankly a far more direct explanation of how the muxer and demuxer work is needed. I'd love to help but I came here for information, so I clearly don't know enough about the subject.

Gorman (talk) 06:19, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * This is a fair point, although any references are unlikely to help you understand phase shifting. Phase-shift and time delay are only equivalent for a signal containig a single frequency. For a signal containing many frequencies, each individual frequency is phase shifted by 90° (equivalent to a different time delay for each frequency). Sorry, but I can't explain this any better without resorting to Fourier analysis. Either explanation isn't clear enough to be added to the article. HairyWombat 21:08, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

QS
Because SQ means Stereo Quadraphonic many people think that QS means Quadraphonic Stereo. But Sansui, who developed the QS system, never called their system Quadraphonic Stereo. Originally the QS system was developed in 1970-1971 to synthesize four channel sound from two channel recordings and the first QS matrix was called Quadphonic Synthesizer or QS-1. Later Sansui changed the name to Quadraphonic Sound or Regular Matrix - but never Quadraphonic Stereo. (BeatmanSwedish 2011-04-30)


 * Done. HairyWombat 22:09, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

many errors...
This article has many errors, both of omission and comission (eg, calling the ultrasonic signal on a CD-4 or UD-4 disk a "subcarrier"). I intend to aggressively edit it at some point, and would like to speak with the creator before I do so.

My qualifications? I've had some form of surround sound since 1970, actively promoted surround when I reviewed for Stereophile, and and have recorded live in both quad and Ambisonic sound. I have a BS EE, and generally know what I'm talking about.

WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 11:31, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I just checked, and "subcarrier" was the term used in original magazine articles from the 1970s. This Wikipedia article was created in 2003, and has been edited by numerous people since then. (Hit the history tag to see all this.) If you want to discuss stuff, better to do it here on the Talk page. Note that you are free to edit the article, but others are equally free to edit your edits. That is how wikis work. HairyWombat (talk) 01:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It may have been the original term, but a "subcarrier" is a FDM signal sent on another higher frequency carrier. In this case it is incorrect. Changing it to "carrier" would fix the problem/ Any objections before I do it? DerekFB (talk) 20:07, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Done. HairyWombat 15:38, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Benjamin Bauer
The Columbia matrix system SQ (Stereo Quadraphonic) was developed by Benjamin Bauer, not by Peter Scheiber, who developed a system similar to the Sansui QS/RM system before Sansui. Later Peter Scheiber helped Electro-Voice with a decoder that could play all matrix records. (BeatmanSwedish 2011-04-30) [Corrected by Martinwill2 (talk) 06:45, 13 August 2011 (UTC)]


 * The article does not say that Scheiber developed SQ, but that SQ "was based on the work of Peter Scheiber". This is true, but is also true of the other matrix systems; my recollection is that Scheiber wrote the fundamental paper on this. Perhaps what is needed is for the mention of Scheiber to be moved up into the general introduction to Matrix formats. Also, could somebody dig up the reference to Scheiber's (1970?) paper. HairyWombat 02:06, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Later. Done. I found two papers from 1969 and 1971. HairyWombat 16:14, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Quadraphonic CD's ?
The original red book specification for Compact disc included provision for 4 audio channels making Discrete (4-4-4) formatsCD recordings a possibility. Altogh commercial recordings were never (AFaIK ?)issueed in this format. This |# site claims there were a small number of CD and cassettes issued. 86.175.231.58 (talk) 15:51, 21 July 2017 (UTC)