Talk:Queen's Medal for Champion Shot

Picture
The picture is the wrong way round. Or at least the part showing the red-coats is. Or were all soldiers in the nineteenth century taught to shoot as left-handers? If so, it would be rather ironic, as when the SA 80 rifle was first introduced in the late 1980s in the British army, everyone was told, in no uncertain terms, that they would have to fire the new weapon from the right shoulder (it could only be operated from the right shoulder). How do I know this? Because I was one of the unfortunates(a left-hander), who was affected. RASAM (talk) 20:03, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 11 August 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. My rationale is largely in the relisting comment and it seems no one thinks adding extra disambiguation will be necessary. Original title turned into a dab. Jenks24 (talk) 17:15, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Queen's Medal for Champion Shots → Queen's Medal for Champion Shot – Article was rewritten for the Canadian medal only, which is separate from the Commonwealth-wide Queen's Medal for Champion Shots in the Military Forces. André Kritzinger (talk) 18:08, 11 August 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 13:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. This article was a complete mess and should never have been done as it was. What on earth were the involved editors thinking by taking an article on a generic Commonwealth medal and turning it into a country-specific article? The article should have remained as a generic article on the Commonwealth decoration, not repurposed to be solely about the Canadian medal. I have attempted to sort this mess out by creating a separate article at Queen's Medal for Champion Shot (Canada). -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * "Edid warring/content dispute"? Really, take a breather, You posted the above as I made the edit you just reverted, me obviously not knowing another article had been created, since there was no indication of a move to Queen's Medal for Champion Shot (Canada) (which, by the way, doesn't require the "Canada" disambiguation, as the singular "Shot" differentiates the medal from the British one). -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  14:18, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I have removed the protection, which I only put on due to your mass revert before I'd even had a chance to explain. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:26, 12 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment No problem with the original arrangement, but none with the "repurposing", either, as Queen's Medal for Champion Shots in the Military Forces had been created to take the Britain related content. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  14:18, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Why exactly do you think the default title should be the Canadian decoration? The Commonwealth decoration is very commonly just referred to in the singular and therefore Queen's Medal for Champion Shot should redirect here. The edit history should obviously stay with the main article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:20, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't say I think the default title should be the Canadian medal. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  14:31, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, that's exactly what happened. The base article on the Commonwealth decoration had been turned into an article specifically on the Canadian decoration. The material on the Commonwealth decoration had been moved to a new article. And then there was a request to move this article to a new title to conform to the Canadian decoration, taking its entire edit history (most of it relating to the Commonwealth decoration) with it. You say above you have no problem with this. In what possible way is that how we usually do things on Wikipedia? -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:13, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I also didn't say the process was right. I simply have no issue with the existence of two separate articles. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  15:48, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Necrothesp, the article Queen's Medal for Champion Shots was a complete mess since it unsuccessfully tried to deal with FIVE DIFFERENT medals. There is no single Queen's Medal for Champion Shots and to try and cram all five versions into a single article is impractical. I therefore created Queen's Medal for Champion Shots in the Military Forces, which deals with the ARMY medal awarded in the UK and Commonwealth. Then I requested that Queen's Medal for Champion Shots be renamed to Queen's Medal for Champion Shot, which is a Canadian medal, after I rewrote the article to that effect. At the moment I'm halfway through creating the second of the British medals, the Queen's Medal for Champion Shots of the Air Forces, which deals with the AIR FORCE medal awarded in the UK and Commonwealth. Next in line, tomorrow or so if I'm not held up further before I'm done, will be the Queen's Medal for Champion Shots of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines, which deals with the NAVY and MARINES medal awarded in the UK and Commonwealth. In between all these on the Order of Wear list is still the Queen’s Medal for Champion Shots of the New Zealand Naval Forces, which I'll probably leave to a New Zealander to do in case they are just as testy as some Canadians. Queen's Medal for Champion Shots will then become a disambiguation page. There's no edit war, I'm done with the Canadian Queen's Medal for Champion Shot (no "s"), done in ONE edit, and I haven't touched it since. What a Canadian editor wants to do with it, is not my concern apart from a couple of errors which I will either point out to him or fix myself for him to tear to shreds if he so desires. Right now you're making an even bigger mess, so please, restore the titles of Queen's Medal for Champion Shots in the Military Forces and Queen's Medal for Champion Shot. André Kritzinger (talk) 15:20, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Just by the way, Queen's Medal for Champion Shot is not the default title. It's the proper title of the Canadian medal. This is outrageous, actually, since Necrothesp now shows up as the creator of a 12,646 bytes article that he didn't lift a finger to create, while a 51,465 bytes article that I created from scratch two days ago shows up as something that was created as an 826 bytes stub seven years ago. Well done, Necrothesp, I never knew article pirating was even possible! André Kritzinger (talk) 15:48, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * That's unfortunate, but maybe you should have moved the article to Queen's Medal for Champion Shots in the Military Forces instead of repurposing it. There's really no point getting arsey with me when you were the one who didn't follow normal procedure. I stick to what I said above. Moving it back was the lesser of two evils. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:54, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * However, I've reverted my edits as I have no wish to offend other editors or remove credit for their work. I do accept that User:Andre Kritzinger has put a lot of work into this article. But please, in future be more careful with edit histories and repurposing existing articles. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I still believe this page should be moved to Queen's Medal for Champion Shot (Canada) and that Queen's Medal for Champion Shot and Queen's Medal for Champion Shots should redirect to Queen's Medal for Champion Shots in the Military Forces or be turned into a disambiguation page and a redirect to that page, as the common name for all these awards is the Queen's Medal for Champion Shot. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:19, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You are completely mistaken, I did nothing wrong, so don't accuse me of not following the rules to divert attention from your own mess. The article Queen's Medal for Champion Shots has been primarily about the Canadian medal for most of its existence - do scroll back to where the Canadian title Queen's Medal for Champion Shot first appeared in it. Moving the article to Queen's Medal for Champion Shots in the Military Forces would have been senseless since most of the article content dealt with the Canadian medal to begin with, while the remainder dealt, sort of, with the other four separate medals. All I did was create a new article on the British and Commonwealth medal, clean up the old article and then request a move of the old article to the proper Canadian name. The article's edit history is mostly about the Canadian medal anyway, so I'm at a loss to understand how I messed up any edit history. The title "Queen's Medal for Champion Shot" is not a generic name, it's only used by Canada. So please rename/move the article as I requested since there's no need for the (Canada) appendage in the title. The only title that needs to become a redirect page is "Queen's Medal for Champion Shots", with the S, and I'll do that as I progress through the set of articles that I'm creating. I'm not being "arsey", I'm POd. I did my homework first. Did you? Thank you for the reverts. André Kritzinger (talk) 17:15, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

The following articles have now been created, and only this pending rename is still preventing me from completing the task and getting on with something else: In case all the aforegoing arguments are still confusing anyone: The old Queen's Medal for Champion Shots needed to be renamed either way, after sorting out the mess it was in, either to "Queen's Medal for Champion Shot" (singular, the Canadian medal) or to "Queen's Medal for Champion Shots in the Military Forces" (the British and Commonwealth medal). Since about half of the old contents dealt with the Canadian medal and the other half with the four other medals, and since the title "Queen's Medal for Champion Shots" (multiple) is needed for use as a disambiguation page, I chose to ask for a rename to the Canadian version and rewrote the article accordingly. This way, half the edit history is still applicable to the article it ends up with. The other way, as little as one-eighth of the edit history would have been applicable... So, could we get on with the renaming now, please? -- André Kritzinger (talk) 13:18, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Queen's Medal for Champion Shot (rewritten, awaiting renaming)
 * Queen's Medal for Champion Shots in the Military Forces (new)
 * Queen's Medal for Champion Shots of the Air Forces (new)
 * Queen's Medal for Champion Shots of the New Zealand Naval Forces (new)
 * Queen's Medal for Champion Shots of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines (new)
 * Template:Champion shot medals (new)
 * Relisting comment. OK, I think there's a general agreement that the name of this award is "Queen's Medal for Champion Shot" and that the current title, Queen's Medal for Champion Shots, should become a disambiguation page. The only question is whether dropping the 's' in the proposed title is enough disambiguation, or if bracketed disambiguation should be added and have it at "Queen's Medal for Champion Shot (Canada)". If comments from here on could just focus on that issue we should be able to reach a consensus. Jenks24 (talk) 13:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. I'd say the Bracketed Canada would be superfluous. I'm probably biased, though. ^_^ -- André Kritzinger (talk) 15:50, 19 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
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 * Added tag to http://www.blatherwick.net/documents/009%20-%20Queen's%20Medal%20Champion%20Shot%20MID%20etc.pdf
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160622043927/http://blatherwick.net/documents/Current%20Canadian%20Honours/14%20Queen%27s%20Medal%20For%20Champion%20Shot%20Canadian%20Forces.pdf to http://www.blatherwick.net/documents/current%20canadian%20honours/14%20Queen's%20Medal%20For%20Champion%20Shot%20Canadian%20Forces.pdf

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Thank you. André Kritzinger (talk) 12:33, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:45, 20 July 2016 (UTC)