Talk:Quentin Crisp/Archive2017/December

Revealing of trans indentity on autobiography
With the release of Crisp's The Last Word, it has been revealed that by the end of her life Crisp came to realise she identified as a trans woman, after living most of her life being refered to as a homosexual man. An excerpt of her autobiography reads "At the age of ninety, it has finally been explained to me that I am not really homosexual, I’m transgender. I now accept that." (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/11/21/quentin-crisp-reflects-on-trans-identity-in-exclusive-final-autobiography/) I was going to ask, when's the right time to change the pronouns on this article? --Lluvia Roja (talk) 20:29, 25 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Good question! The excerpt of the book doesn't say anything about which pronoun QC would have wanted, so I would argue that perhaps we leave it alone? It seems as if they didn't necessarily "transition", they just recognize that the definition probably fits. That's my take, anyway, without having read their whole book. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:23, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, she does state that she is a woman, and that she would've liked to transition had she had the oportunity (not that it matters, anyway, genitals are not related to gender identity). I do believe that not acknowledging this is a disregard to her identity and legacy. She states very firmly in her book that she is a woman, and not a man. --Lluvia Roja (talk) 02:55, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * There was no public declaration on Crisp's part saying "she" wanted to be referred to as she, or take another name. It's POV pushing after the fact to change a pronoun based on a posthumous book, which we do not have at hand, to make such a radical change.  Caitlyn Jenner can speak for herself.  At best Crisp has said that a certain argument made late in life has its appeal.  Crisp cannot correct or clarify a work edited and published posthumously.  The fact should be mentioned when it can be sourced and it should be noted as appearing in a posthumous work, which, BTW, has still not been published some 18 years after QC's death. We can look at viewpoints attributed to other controversial figures like Nietzsche (by his sister) and Ayn Rand (by her "authorized" editors) posthumously to see the mischief possible in trusting words that a dead person cannot disavow. μηδείς (talk) 03:11, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Archiving
If no one objects, I think we should archive the talk material 5 years old or older. Another editor can do this, or I will do so after a few days unless someone brings up an active reason not to. μηδείς (talk) 16:59, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I have added what I hope is the correct code for archiving anything with no recent response over 2 years old. Hope it works. μηδείς (talk) 17:43, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The archiving has been accomplished, and there is a link to the Dec 2015 archive above. μηδείς (talk) 20:14, 30 December 2017 (UTC)