Talk:Quentin Davies

Lock this page
The tory inbreds are hacking the page already with tedious "turncoat" references. One thing the torys are good at is vitriol and bitterness. I suppose its all they have left.

Related to this - I don't see any value to the sentence "This allegation against a Labour MP appeared in a newspaper known to support the Labour Party." which is clearly not written from a neutral perspective (newspapers supporting any party print these sort of allegations all the time - the entire expense scandal was created by the Telegraph, a newspaper known to support the Conservative Party - but this did not prevent them publishing allegations about a huge number of Conservative MPs). Does anyone disagree with removing this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.104.91.10 (talk) 15:02, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * As the Daily Mirror page clearly states that the paper is Left-wing/Pro-Labour, and it was unusual for the newspaper to criticise a sitting Labour MP, the comment does appear to add value and should be allowed to stand. I would also make the point that the preceeding unsigned comment originated at an IP address registered to Alex Davies, Partygaming, 18 King William Street, London, EC4N 7BP and (from following a link on the Internet Archive wayback machine records for www.quentindaviesmp.com which leads to Alex Davies 2005 CV showing his home address to be Frampton Hall), I think I am correct in saying that Quentin Davies' son is trying to sanitize his father's record (which may explain why the previous comment was unsigned).—GrahamSmith (talk) 16:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Category:Conservative MPs (UK) reinstated
I have reinstated Category:Conservative MPs (UK). As with other categories on wikipedia, the categories in Category:British MPs by political party do not record only current status: the categories by party include people who are or have been MPs for that party. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:23, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * PS In case anyone is wondering, this is consistent with the categorisation of other MPs who switched party, such as Shaun Woodward (Con→Lab), Alan Howarth (Con→Lab), Emma Nicholson (Con→LibDEm), John Horam (Lab→SDP→Con), Reg Prentice (Lab→Con), Winston Churchil (Con→Lib→Con) and Paul Marsden (Lab→LibDem→Lab). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm impressed with your knowledge of M.Ps who have crossed the floor. Is there a list of these? MrMarmite 19:51, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't think that there was a list, but have just found List of British Members of Parliament who crossed the floor. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)
 * I'm a political anorak with too much RAM in my skull, and despite my best efforts I can't forget this sort of detail :(
 * Nice find; I added it as a See Also, of which perhaps there will emerge more, as it seems pretty encyclopedically relevant the history of other floor-crossings prior to his defection. I also added Category:Defectors which by definition should probably be indisputable, although I am rather confused as to exactly what constitutes a defection as opposed to a general crossing-of-the-floor (although many on that list are simply transitions to independent status) so perhaps a lot of the people on that list want categorising in there. BigBlueFish 23:57, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

The letter
In case a source cannot be found later (or one which insists on editorialising) here is the full text of the letter:

"I have been a member of the Conservative Party for over 30 years, and have served for 20 years in the Parliamentary Party, in a variety of backbench and front bench roles.

"This has usually been a great pleasure, and always a great privilege. It is therefore with much sadness that I write you this letter. But you are entitled to know the truth.

"Under your leadership the Conservative Party appears to me to have ceased collectively to believe in anything, or to stand for anything.

"It has no bedrock. It exists on shifting sands. A sense of mission has been replaced by a PR agenda.

"For the first 19 years of my time in the House, in common I imagine with the great majority of my colleagues, it never occurred to me to leave the party, whatever its current vicissitudes.

"Ties of familiarity, of friendship, and above all of commitment to constituency supporters are for all of us very strong and incredibly difficult to break.

"But they cannot be the basis for living a lie - for continuing in an organisation when one no longer has respect for its leadership or understanding of its aims.

"I have come to that appreciation slowly and painfully and as a result of many things, some of which are set out below.

"The first horrible realisation that I might not be able to continue came last year. My initial reaction was to suppress it.

"You had come to office as leader of the party committed to break a solemn agreement we had with the European People’s Party to sit with them in the EPP-ED Group during the currency of this European Parliament.

"For seven months you vacillated, and during that time we had several conversations.

"It was quite clear to me that you had no qualms in principle about tearing up this agreement, and that it was only the balance of prevailing political pressures which led you ultimately to stop short of doing so (though since then you have hardly acted in good faith in continuing with the agreement, for example you never attend the EPP-ED Summits claiming that you are "too busy" - even though half a dozen or more Prime Ministers are always present.)

"Of course I knew that you had put yourself in a position such that if you did not leave the EPP-ED Group you would be breaking other promises you had given to colleagues, and on which many of them had counted in voting for you at the leadership election.

"But that I fear only made the position worse. The trouble with trying to face both ways is that you are likely to lose everybody's confidence.

"Aside from the rather significant issues of principle involved, you have of course paid a practical price for your easy promises.

"You are the first leader of the Conservative Party who (for different reasons) will not be received either by the President of the United States, or by the Chancellor of Germany (up to, and very much including, Iain Duncan Smith every one of your predecessors was most welcome both in the White House and in all the chancelleries of Europe).

"It is fair to say that you have so far made a shambles of your foreign policy, and that would be a great handicap to you - and, more seriously, to the country - if you ever came to power.

"I have never done business with people who deliberately break contracts, and I knew last year that if you left the EPP-ED Group I could no longer remain in a party under your leadership.

"In fact you held back and I tried to put this ugly incident out of my mind and carry on.

"But the last year has been a series of shocks and disappointments. You have displayed to the full both the vacuity and the cynicism of your favourite slogan 'change to win'.

"One day in January, I think a Wednesday or Thursday, you and George Osborne discovered that Gordon Brown was to make a speech on the environment the following Monday.

"You wished to pre-empt him. So without any consultation with anyone - experts, think tanks, the industry, even the Shadow Cabinet - you announced an airline or flight tax which as you have subsequently heard from me in a long paper (which has never been refuted) and I am sure from many others, is certainly defective and contradictory - and in my view complete nonsense.

"The PR pressures had overridden any considerations of economic rationality or national interest, or even what would have been to others normal businesslike prudence.

"Equally it seems that your hasty rejection of nuclear energy as a 'last resort' was also driven by your PR imperatives rather than by other considerations. Many colleagues hope that that will be the subject of your next u-turn.

"You regularly (I think on a pre-arranged PR grid or timetable) make apparent policy statements which are then revealed to have no intended content at all. They appear to be made merely to strike a pose, to contribute to an image.

"You thus sometimes treat important subjects with the utmost frivolity. Examples are 'inequality' (the 'Polly Toynbee' moment - again you had a paper from me!), marriage and the tax system (even your own Party Chairman was unable to explain on the BBC what you really meant) and, most recently, mass consultation of the public on policy decisions. (In view of your complete failure to consult with anyone, within the Party or outside it, on many of the matters I have touched on, or on many others, the latter was perhaps intended as a joke).

"Of course I could go on - up to three weeks ago when you were prepared to stoop to putting forward a resolution on Iraq (demanding an inquiry while our military involvement continues) which it was admitted at a Party meeting the following Monday (by George Osborne in your presence) was motivated by party political considerations. That was a particularly bad moment.

"Believe it or not I have no personal animus against you. You have always been perfectly courteous in our dealings. You are intelligent and charming.

"As you know, however, I never supported you for the leadership of the Party - even when, after my preferred candidate Ken Clarke had been defeated in the first round, it was blindingly obvious that you were going to win.

"Nor, for the same reasons, have I ever sought office in your shadow administration.

"Although you have many positive qualities you have three, superficiality, unreliability and an apparent lack of any clear convictions, which in my view ought to exclude you from the position of national leadership to which you aspire and which it is the presumed purpose of the Conservative Party to achieve.

"Believing that as I do, I clearly cannot honestly remain in the Party. I do not intend to leave public life. On the contrary I am looking forward to joining another party with which I have found increasingly I am naturally in agreement and which has just acquired a leader I have always greatly admired, who I believe is entirely straightforward, and who has a towering record, and a clear vision for the future of our country which I fully share.

"Because my constituents, to whose interests of course I remain devoted, are entitled to know the full background, I am releasing this letter to the press."

Darrenhusted 16:07, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It's been so widely copied that I think this unlikely, but as it's there I replaced it with a copy with the original paragraphing. I hope I didn't break anything. BigBlueFish 00:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It just seemed that this article was taken over with lists of betrayal and selective quoting, at least the full letter is here for anyone to make their own judgment. Darrenhusted 14:04, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The selective quoting doesn't bring out his unhappiness with Europe which seems to be at the heart of that letter. EPP = European People's Party, the main centre-right christian democrat block in the European Parliament. Secretlondon 03:41, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Section removed: Niece held for murder
"His niece, Jessica Davies, is now held in custody in France on suspicion of murder." I removed this line as I don't see it as remotely relevant to this article, particularly as Quentin Davies is a fairly minor political figure. If anyone disagrees and wishes to add it back, please discuss it on this talk page first. Terraxos (talk) 22:26, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The Independent 17 dec 2008
Kittybrewster  &#9742;  23:38, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Right Honourable
I can't find any evidence that he bears the prefix "Right Honourable". He is not listed as a Privy Councillor and I don't think he has ever served in any cabinet. Viewfinder (talk) 23:21, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * He also isn't listed as such in Dissolution Honours List announced today, which would seem to indicate he never got the upgrade, so I've removed the prefix from his infobox. -  Chrism  would like to hear from you 16:02, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I know we are supposed to avoid personal remarks, but I don't mind him calling himself "Baron". The associations in my mind with the title are either with Snoopy fighting the red Baron, or Baron Hardup from the pantomime...Brunnian (talk) 19:26, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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