Talk:Quentin Hubbard

Untitled
Quentin did not die on 28 October 1976. He was found on that day but died later in the hospital on 9:25 PM 12 November 76 according to the coroner report. MikeG (sorry, forget how this stuff works).

"Disappeared from his home"?
Here is a photocopy of a newspaper article where a representative of the Church states: "Maren said [Quentin] Hubbard was in Las Vegas for a vacation, specifically to enroll in a flight training school. He was on a three-week vacation and as a result no one had reported him missing." That doesn't fit well the "disappeared from his home" in the article. Raymond Hill 02:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes... but according to Dennis Erlich, he had disappeared and people were searching for him . The "vacation" story is a "shore story" (ever heard staff members having a vacation?). I suggest both sources should be mentioned. --Tilman 06:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Alleged homosexuality
There is no evidence that Quentin was a homosexual. My statement to those who believe this is, "Check your reliable and verifiable references." I know for a fact that he had numerous affairs with women, because I knew the women and saw the records.--Fahrenheit451 21:43, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Since you didn't cite your sources for that, this is irrelevant. Q was a homosexual, there are many sources about this. --Tilman 05:52, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * That is total bullshit and written by an anonymous editor. The cited article relies on the opinion of one monica pignotti. I knew her and she was a bit of a story teller. It looks like the cited article is on what is in fact a personal website belonging to one valerie emanuel. The opinion of one person on a personal website is not reliable. The citation fails WP:RS so I removed it.--Fahrenheit451 08:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter on what website it is located, it is the author that counts. Plus, he had sperm in the anus. You're just trying to rewrite history, this is silly. --Tilman 09:47, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The semen in the anus may or may not be true, but does not necessarily imply homosexuality. We have no reliable source as to Quentin's sexual orientation, so it should not be mentioned in the article. Pignotti merely gave her opinion in her own article, she did not supply any facts. The website is personal and obviously anti-POV. I suggest you knock off your false accusations.--Fahrenheit451 09:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * What would you want? A photograph of his anus? An affidavit by 10 sailors who met him? It's common knowledge that Q was a homosexual, and it was a cause for his suicide. --Tilman 10:14, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * His alleged homosexuality is NOT "common knowledge" and there is nothing to connect his death with your allegation. The article as it stands is quite poor in quality. The citation from an Unreliable source worsens it. Please be honest with yourself.--Fahrenheit451 13:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I added several other reliable sources that he was a homosexual. Now please stop wasting time by "doubting" well known facts. --Tilman 14:26, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Those sources you have added state it as an opinion, not a fact. Please stop wasting time by arguing with opinions.--Fahrenheit451 14:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I wish there was a way of keeping Scientologists away from biasing information about Scientology...~ZytheTalk to me!

Since only the Scientologists know what information about Scientology is actually true, isn't it the other way around? The non-Scientologists or vindictive ex=employees are a lot more likely to biase information about Scientology and how would you know? Countesskrak 02:59, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Article tagged NPOV
It seems that Tilman wants to engage in an edit war using unreliable citations to reflect his POV. This is unacceptable in Wikipedia.--Fahrenheit451 09:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * There are tons of sources for Q's homosexuality. There's no reason to delete the obvious. --Tilman 10:11, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * "Tons of sources" is irrelevant. You must produce at least ONE source that meets WP:RS. The scientology-kills.org website is a personal website run by valerie emanuel.  The page article is by monica pignotti that merely expresses her opinion.  She does not even provide any evidence.--Fahrenheit451 14:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * As I already told you, Valerie isn't the "source". I added several other reliable sources that he was a homosexual. Now please stop wasting time by "doubting" well known facts.--Tilman 14:24, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I never stated valerie was the source, you falsely alleged that I did. Knock that crap off.--Fahrenheit451 14:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Consider reading your own texts: You must produce at least ONE source that meets WP:RS. The scientology-kills.org website is a personal website run by valerie emanuel.. Now please stop wasting time by discussing the obvious. --Tilman 14:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Please show me what you allege is "obvious". I think you are the one wasting time here.--Fahrenheit451 14:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Asked, answered, and sourced. --Tilman 16:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Since it seems pretty clearly stated and well-sourced that Quention was gay, I'm going to remove the NPOV tag. Despite your claims, Fahrenheit, you're the one attempting to refute documented fact with original research. --Thetoastman 20:34, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * A lie can be clearly stated and repeated by many people and it's still just as much a lie. Quentin was NOT gay and there is not one single source, that meets Wikipedia's criteria, that states that he was. He had girlfriends and I was one of them and I can tell you that he was definitely not gay. When he was found before he died, in a coma, he had been in the hands of kidnappers for several weeks and they had tortured him, including homosexual rape. How is that proof that he was gay? The ransom demand wasn't money, it was that his parents turn over control of Scientology to un-named persons. Obviously they couldn't turn over their religion to someone who kidnaps and tortures innocent 22 year olds. It was a horrible trajedy but to then malign him also, is just wrong. Check the Coroner's report. He was tortured before he was left for dead.Countesskrak 23:03, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Category Former Scientologist
The only way that Quentin left Scientology is through his death, in which case, L. Ron and every other deceased Scientologist should be former Scientologists too. Possibly he might have made a complete break with Scientology and his father if he'd lived longer, but I don't think what-might-have-beens are citable. I don't think this category makes sense in this case. AndroidCat 15:41, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. And unless there's some proof that he left the Church prior to his death, there's no validity to the claim of calling him a "former Scientologist". That's like calling Pope John Paul II a "former" Catholic. Alcarillo 15:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I just noticed that in the main L. Ron Hubbard article under the Scientology subheading it mentions he "was uninterested in his father's plans and had preferred to become a pilot" with no mention of him going back to the Church. Here it mentions he went back to the Church. Can anyone shed further light on this? If so, can we get the two articles to conform.--03:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)Tonytnnt

Groomed?
The claim that LRH "groomed" Quentin as his "successor" has been made on this and other pages, without any documentation. As far as I know, there was never any statement from LRH or anyone else in a position of authority within the Church to support this claim, or to suggest that the Church needed an hereditary figurehead. By the end of the 1960s, LRH had himself withdrawn from any administrative role in the Church. DavidCooke 03:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * --Tilman 20:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this reference, Tilman. It shows Atack believed that LRH intended Quentin to "succeed" him as "leader of Scientology".  However, he did not cite any document written or published by LRH in support of this, so it looks like verbal data or gossip - not sufficient grounds to accuse LRH of nepotism. It's also unclear what the term "leader of Scientology" might mean, as the Church had no single individual who could be called the leader.  LRH was the founder of Scientology, and there can only ever be one founder. I'm content to let the Atack cite stand, as anyone following it up can see how questionable it is. DavidCooke 22:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * There are quite a number of cites that Hubbard never let go of control after resigning as president of the Church of Scientology in September 1966. AndroidCat 23:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Murder
Smee, stop reverting my changes without discussion. You are not a machine. What you are adding is a murder accusation by Dennis Erlich on some subpage of a non-RS. Nobody else has said that and since 31 YEARS absolutely no new information was added. This is clearly nonsense. Misou 02:30, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

No-one else has said it to Wikipedia because Scientologists who were there and know what happened don't read or contribute to the Wikipedia. I happened to see the suicide thing on Quentin by accident and the other side of the story should at least be mentioned. It is well known that Dennis Erlich was the last person to see Quentin alive; besides the kidnappers. He was expelled from Scientology afterwards (Flag Ethics Order). Draw your own conclusions.Countesskrak 23:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds interesting and important. Fortunately for the verifiability of things Wikipedia requires at least one source for any statements you make on article pages (and three sources if they are pro-Scientology...(joke)). You will have to come up with some more details. Misou 23:20, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

There is an article in Yahoo where Dennis Erlich states, himself, that he was the last person to see Quentin alive, and that Quentin was kidnapped and murdered. I will find it again and reference it. I'll get back to you.Countesskrak 02:19, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Source and Reference: Dennis Erlich. Hoist by his own Petard. From Dennis Erlich's article "The End Of Q"

"But instead I justified my cowardice in allowing him to walk away" I was relieved, ashamed and shocked.

But, then, things had a tendency to move quickly from one emergency to another on Flag. "On with life!" or so I thought.

A couple of weeks later I arrived in the crew dining room for dinner to find the whole place quietly a-buzz with the news: "QUENTIN'S DEAD! NO ONE KNOWS HOW HE DIED. HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN MURDERED!"

"By the afternoon of the next day, he hadn't shown. My conscience was beginning to give me pressure. I felt guilty." End of the Q/By Dennis Erlich

Countess Krak, your last edit (the parts you removed from his statement) now make it seem Erlich had something to do with Q's death. Is that intentional? --Leocomix 09:57, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Torture Allegations
This article says that there is substantial evidence that Quentin was tortured for not obeying his father does anyone know where we could find that evidence so we could source it as it appears very sensational as it is 79.68.197.152 can you help with this.--Jamespoky (talk) 18:37, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

PROD
I de-PRODed this article on the grounds that it has been on Wikipedia for several years and is backed up with numerous reliable sources. Anyone can feel free to take it to AFD to let the community decide. Andrew327 02:25, 25 May 2014 (UTC)