Talk:Queue (hairstyle)

Fair use rationale for Image:Once upon china.jpg
Image:Once upon china.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 03:54, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Article name
Why does this use the obscure word 'queue' when 'pigtail' is far more widely used? Also, some etymology would help - I assumed it was some transliteration of the Chinese, until I checked it and found it was from an old French would for 'tail' (see here). Any thoughts? Malick78 (talk) 17:41, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This article definitely need to mention the etymology. Care to add that information to the main page? Bennylin (talk) 00:16, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Queue" has a pretty specific meaning; it's a kind of pigtail (for which we also have an article), but the two aren't exactly synonyms. Kafziel Complaint Department 18:39, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Is that an opinion? I see it more like gender issue. Queue is masculine, where pigtail is feminime. Bennylin (talk) 00:16, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Women?
The Hairstyles of a Manchu Women is not mentioned. Obsessions28 (talk) 08:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * My take on "women?" are that the term "pigtail" is used for women, while "queue" is for men. So in the sentence, "She wears a pigtail, while he wears a queue" denotes to the same hairstyle. My comment on your question is that it's no different than today's East Asian women, IMHO. Bennylin (talk) 00:16, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have added a link to the new article on Liangbatou hairstyle/hairpiece of Manchu women.--Librarianhelen (talk) 16:59, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Unique
I saw WPCHINA in this page, so is queue 'unique' to China or originated there? I don't think so. I added stub-section about European queue as I saw some pictures of European men (nobles probably) wearing queue (either natural hair or fake I don't know) from the Commons. Anyone with European background care to expand the information? Bennylin (talk) 00:16, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, another information is needed whether queue is stricly one braided a-la Manchurian or two-braided version also considered to be a queue. As far as I know I've only seen pictures of Native American with two braided 'queues' (or are they pigtails?) If two braided 'tails are also queue, then many Chinese girls in Mao's era, who commonly wore this style of hair, would be in paradox with the definition of Chinese queue, where people (men) cut off their queue as a sign of the bygone era. Bennylin (talk) 00:26, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Main reason for Manchu men to wear queue, is that they were both herdmen and warriors wearing headgear(or helmet), so they had to shave off most of the hair to prevent the helmet from slipping off. The rest of the hair then was braided into a queue. The same reason applies to modern times soldiers' crew cut(or No.1).Arilang1234 (talk) 20:24, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Huh?
The text states:

"Once firmly in power, Nurhaci commanded all men in the areas he had conquered to adopt the Manchu hairstyle. The Manchu hairstyle was significant for it distinguished between the Manchus and the indigenous Chinese. It was a symbol of Han Chinese submission to Manchu rule."

So which is it? Was it used to distinguish Chinese and Manchus? Or was it imposed on the Chinese to symbolise submission to the Manchus? It can't be both!

Bathrobe (talk) 02:08, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

wiktionary
From wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?oldid=5961498

queue (plural queues)

(mostly historical) A men's hairstyle whose primary attribute is a braid (sometimes a ponytail, after the French meaning) at the back of the head, such as that worn by men in Imperial China. I don't know what the source of that entry was, but it stated "men's hairstyle" which is an important keyword. The opening paragraph of the current version should mention that, I think. I'll wait for some comment before changing it. Bennylin (talk) 13:18, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Short-haired people
Chinese men tend to have relatively short hair; what if it couldn't grow long enough to braid? Brutannica (talk) 04:53, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Word salad
Some sequence of edits has turned this sentence into word salad:
 * Rebels in Shangdong tortured the Han official who suggested Dorgon the queue order to death and killed his relatives.

MaxEnt (talk) 01:05, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Immigrants with queues
Why did Chinese immigrants wear them? Why fear the emperor overseas? 75.42.85.114 (talk) 07:58, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

WTF is a "begs" ?
What is the definition of "begs" in these sentences (emphasis added)? "However, after an invasion of Kashgar by Jahangir Khoja, Turkistani muslim begs and officials in Xinjiang eagerly fought for 'privilege' of wearing a queue to show their steadfast loyalty to the Empire. High ranking begs were granted this right."It surely does not refer to beggars with a phrase like "High ranking begs...". Any definition will need a citation since the language is obscure. 66.97.213.202 (talk) 20:20, 22 January 2011 (UTC)


 * There is a link now. --Error (talk) 00:57, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Looking for understanding of emotional issues.
I came to this encyclopedia looking for an answer and this article has a total lack of the information I am looking for.

I am not a Chinese cultural scholar but I do enjoy historical and semi-historical Chinese films. In many of these films there have been scenes where a character with a ponytail (either the Manchu shaved style or the longhair plus tail style) either have it cut off by an enemy or else cut it off themselves (such as to go into disguise), always with obvious negative emotions about the loss of the tail (anger and sadness when taken, hesitation to cut it themselves). Why? The impression I get is that it represents some sort of loss of manhood or social status.

BTW, what is the correct name for a Chinese ponytail (single) if the person's head is not shaved? 66.97.213.202 (talk) 22:19, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Traditionally, Han people male do not have ponytail. An adult male in age 20 will have an adult ceremony, basically it is changing his hairstyle, he should tie his hair and wear a hat, it is called Shufa/束发 and Jiguan/及冠. Our body, hair and skin shouldn't be hurt, because they're given by our parents, Confucius said in Xiao Jing.--刻意(Kèyì) 06:16, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

European Use of the Queue
A form of queue, called by that name, was in common use in much of Europe and in European colonies, during the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, and was even mandated for use in the British and other armies. See, for example, Thomas Carter, Curiosities of War & Military Studies (London: 1860), p. 184, which reproduces the July 20, 1808 Royal Order abolishing the queue in the British Army Al-Nofi (talk) 16:55, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Not a Ponytail
Isn't this a type of plait, not a ponytail? See ponytail. Auximines (talk) 17:11, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. A braid or plait is called a pigtail, not a ponytail.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.74.222.248 (talk) 02:32, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Rescue from drowning
I read somewhere that the queue among European mariners was justified as a means to pull them to safety if they fell into water since many couldn't swim. --Error (talk) 00:59, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 one external links on Queue (hairstyle). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110707024829/http://ccsh.nankai.edu.cn/noscript/ccsh/xslt/lspl/2006%E5%B9%B4/06%E5%B9%B4%E7%AC%AC3%E6%9C%9F/01.pdf to http://ccsh.nankai.edu.cn/noscript/ccsh/xslt/lspl/2006%E5%B9%B4/06%E5%B9%B4%E7%AC%AC3%E6%9C%9F/01.pdf
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090709190210/http://www.beautymountain88.com.tw:80/pingpuu1/pingpuuchineselanguage4.htm to http://www.beautymountain88.com.tw/pingpuu1/pingpuuchineselanguage4.htm
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090612062911/http://www.shs.edu.tw:80/works/essay/2006/10/2006102617384514.pdf to http://www.shs.edu.tw/works/essay/2006/10/2006102617384514.pdf
 * Added tag to http://www.qinghistory.cn/cns/WSZL/ZYZX/lzsy/11/30/2006/18895.html
 * Added tag to http://www.lsqn.cn/teach/LUNWEN/200907/132438.html
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20111003231746/http://www.stnn.cc:82/arts/200812/t20081212_923937.html to http://www.stnn.cc:82/arts/200812/t20081212_923937.html
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160402102635/http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Mysteries_and_Miseries_of_Americas_Great_Cities_1000494699/315 to http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/Mysteries_and_Miseries_of_Americas_Great_Cities_1000494699/315

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 00:01, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Queue (hairstyle). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110721195140/http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/suncrane-suncranehome/article?mid=9694&sc=1 to http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/suncrane-suncranehome/article?mid=9694&sc=1

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 08:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Queue (hairstyle). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101116200816/http://news.xinhuanet.com/theory/2006-09/01/content_5035166.htm to http://news.xinhuanet.com/theory/2006-09/01/content_5035166.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 23:17, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Dorgon
Dorgon is mentioned several times in the article, but there is no explanation of who he was or why people should have paid attention to what he said. 216.255.165.198 (talk) 20:08, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Queue in Xinjiang and Tibet
There is one sentence about the queue in Kashgar, but there is nothing about the queue in Tibet. Did the Tibetans wear the queue? If not, they were not subjects of the Manchu Qing dynasty, right? Geographyinitiative (talk) 06:48, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:14, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Khitan.jpg
 * Khitans.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:40, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Queue Hairstyle.png

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:07, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Khitan.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:53, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Khitans.jpg

Too much extra info
This article seems to have a lot of extraneous information about various Chinese hairstyles, especially in the "Predecessors and Origin" section. This article is about the queue, and all this other information is just taking of space and making things confusing. I'd like to trim some of it, if nobody has any objections. Tad Lincoln (talk) 02:21, 17 September 2023 (UTC)