Talk:Quiet storm

AN IMPORTANT CORRECTION AND GIVING A BROTHER HIS PROPS
Had to edit this entry to reflect the true origins of "quiet storm" music. Smokey's hit never would have become associated with this type of music had it not been used by Melvin Lindsey as the theme song for his radio show on WHUR-FM -- which actually defined the music category. Indeed, the popularity of his show is responsible for the category itself -- which could have been called "Golden Time of Day" music had he instead used that Frankie Beverly and Maze tune to introduce his programming time slot.

Further, Smokey had two previous solo albums before "Quiet Storm" -- they just weren't hits.

About the popularity of the music: it's still wildly popular. It's just not always called "quiet storm" music anymore. After all, that song was a hit almost 30 years ago. Same kind of music, basically -- just a different name. Peace. -- deeceevoice, June 27, 2004

Was turning the dial on my radio the other night -- and WHUR STILL has a late-night "Quiet Storm" show. Well, I'll be. :-D deeceevoice 00:58, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC) ---


 * Comment accompanying edit: "Removed 'The music lives.' from the end of the article. It doesn't belong in a Wikipedia article. It's a totally irrational, biased statement of opinion that doesn't contribute to the article.)" (unsigned comment)


 * Dang, bwoi. Why you gotta be so hard? :-p  Just merely a reaction to the first, off-the-mark version of this piece which made it sound like quiet storm music was near 'bout dead.  Quiet storm was one of my first edits as a newbie.  I probably wouldn't write something like that now; but, hey, I thought it was a nice touch -- and certainly not "totally irrational."  Just a fact.  lol  But that's minor.  As long as my other stuff stands, I'm cool wit that.  deeceevoice 06:49, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The amazing thing about this show was how very young Melvin Lindsey was at the time that he started "Quiet Storm". I grew up listening to it in the D.C. suburbs and I had no idea that Lindsey was in his early 20s when he started it. That show was so powerful and so professional that I always thought that Lindsey was much older. It is by far one of the most moving, rich and beautiful radio shows that I ever listened to. I am saddened also to read about Lindsey's early death. What an enormous loss.

Sean7phil (talk) 07:36, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Confusion over the origins of quiet storm
DEECEE, you asked for documentation, you can asked anyone at the time, Jim Watkins, Jim Brown, Cathy Hughes. Anyway below is an parts of an article in the Washington Times I found on the Internet.

“…Mr. Lindsey and local radio veteran Cathy Hughes started "Quiet Storm" at WHUR, Howard University's radio station, with engineer Jack Shuler when Mr. Lindsey and Mr. Shuler were Howard students in the mid-1970s.

Named after a Smokey Robinson song, "Quiet Storm" took off the night that a technical disaster shut down Washington's top radio station, WKYS-FM….”

Source: THE WASHINGTON TIMES; “Deejay Melvin Lindsey dies, 36” MARCH 27, 1992; Section: B; METROPOLITAN Edition: 2; Page: B1 Byline: By Matt Neufeld THE WASHINGTON TIMES   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jshuler (talk • contribs) 12:37, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Cathy Hughes is often (mis)credited with the quiet storm. In fact, Smokey Robinson himself recently made the erroneous statement that the show began on one of Cathy Hughes' radio stations, which, disappointingly, Hughes did not correct -- which is clearly not the case. (In fact Howard University Radio owns the rights to the name "Quiet Storm," and any radio station using the name has to pay the University a royalty -- something probably worth noting in the article.) Melvin sat in for an AWOL deejay, the audience liked what they heard -- and Cathy had the good sense to give him his own show. She didn't originate the format. Melvin's job was giving audiences what they wanted, and he was good at it. And Cathy's talent was/is that she knew a winner/money maker when she heard one. (And, yes, Hughes was sales manager in '73, but became station manager two years later. A sales manager would have had no say-so in programming affairs.)  deeceevoice 06:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * If Ebony and Smokey Robinson both credit Hughes with Quiet Storm we have to include that information in the article.  We can't just say "it slipped Smokey's mind to correct Hughes".   If the editors here can get together  and get the Howard student paper to write up the history then we'd have an authoritative source printing these anecdotes. CarlosRodriguez 14:53, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You misunderstood. Smokey mistakenly assumed the Quiet Storm started on a station owned by Cathy Hughes -- when, in fact, it started at Howard University's radio station, WHUR.  That fact is not under dispute.  The tacky thing is Hughes didn't even bother to correct Robinson.  She's been taking credit for starting the Quiet Storm format, when she didn't originate it.  Her failure to correct Robinson's error was completely self-serving.  deeceevoice 16:06, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * We just need to be sure to get the facts straight.  If Hughes claims she started it and Ebony printed it, and even Smokey doens't know about it, we should be careful about calilng her self-serving.   From the voices on this page it sounds like she didn't start it, references will set the record straight CarlosRodriguez 03:36, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I was there from the beginning with the "Quiet Storm," or as Melvin "Max" wanted the shows mood to be set by "Mr. Magic" by G. Washington Jr.  I was the co-founder and co-producer with Melvin.  We chose the music together; and Cathy would call in every so often and tell us to play a specific record (for some reason she liked "MacAuthur Park."  Initially it was to be only a single night's job, Melvin being the Student Council President and me the President of the Film Society, we were running buddies on campus form Freshman year and this was the summer before our Senior year.  The Sunday night that the show started, no name at that time --and the first song wasn't 'Quiet Storm," a DJ didn't show up, the Program Director (the former "AC from DC")I think was in Atlantic City and couldn't be reached and Cathy asked Melvin to find a student replacement to do the show; for one night.  Melvin called everyone he knew and liked who was majoring in Radio at Howard University and asked them if they wanted to do it.  Everyone said no for differing reasons. Finally, he called me and asked and I said no...so we began to talk and shoot the breeze because he didn't want to call Cathy amd give her the bad news.  While we were talking one of us, I can not remember who --probably Melvin, said let's do it together (I had the license, Melvin didn't.  Melvin had the voice, I didn't.)  Later that day he came by and picked me up in his AMC Gremlin, and we stopped by his house and got most of the records from his collection and went out to my Uncle's house where I had stored my College trunks to get my Radio license.


 * The first night on the air Cathy, the GM, told us we didn't have to run the live commercials and if we missed any she would make good. That night we both were so nervous that I had a very difficult time queing the record and he had a difficult time talking; he only did the top and bottom of the hours' IDs and would announce the records we played after about three or four (He had nothing to say.)  The show had no formal flow then, we just played what we liked and knew (mostly from Melvin's music collection, some jazz I knew and whatever Cathy called in). It was a long night and I think Melvin left to get somthing to eat during a long stretch of music.  We had no idea if anyone was listening.  When he returned he said as he was driving down the street he heard the show all through the city.


 * Next day, after doing DAC reports with the Chief Engineer (and being cursed out for playing poor quality records on the air by the Engineer) Cathy decided to put us in Drive Time. It was strange, the professional DJ's hated us because we were taking money out of their pockets, and the students, some liked the fact that we were on the air others thought we were selling out because there was a low-powered campus station just being started with student Barry Mayo as the GM (WHBC).  During Drive Time the first record we played was a screw up. He announced one record (we had three turntables set) and I played another.  We made it through and Cathy asked if we could do the weekends for the summer.  About the third of fourth weekend Melvin wanted the show to have a signature, so about 9:00pm we would play Mister Magic by Grover Washington Jr., and from that point on we would play what has become known as classic Quiet Storm music.  Later, Cathy changed that from Mister Magic to Queit Storm; then she wanted us to open the show with it.


 * Sometimes between the beginning and the middle of the summer Cathy asked me to sit in on this new show she was starting called the 'Morning Sound" with Jerry Phillips; just in case he needed some technical help; he didn't. It use to be fun watching him interact with his producer I can't think of her name, but it was funny; they would go at it.  Melvin could imitate their battles exactly.


 * One night, myself, Melvin and Sheilah V. were riding through G'town to get something to eat (that was a big deal in college) and a local radio station was doing a 30 minute set on a single artist. Melvin and I both thought that was a nice idea and we began to "spotlight" single artist for an hour.  DC loves the Isleys and Patti.  Some nights when it was slow we would put on Issac Hayes' long songs; or ask the audience to give us a call (the phones would ring off the hook.  Also Maurice Williams, the WHUR reporter that was killed at the district building use to do the news breaks and he use to call use "Dusty and LeRoy" because I use to wear a green brimmed army hat.  Melvin use to like to play the same song by different artist back to back; I never really understood that.  We use to spend a long time (too long sometimes) trying to find the next song to play; it had to have the right beat (there was no playlist-and it was also the time the New York Mix was a big deal going from one record to the next using the beat from one record's end to match the beat of another records beginning; hence music could go on forever and it would sound like the same song.)he would play the more contemporary songs, me the soft jazz and instrumentals.  It was a nice summer.  Never knew we were making history.


 * Around the end of the summer I was getting bored (I was a TV/Film Major) and Cathy saw she had a star in Melvin so she told him to stop saying my name at the end of the shows; we were a team. I could see the writing on the wall so I left to go home for the last month of the summer and Brett (a fellow student and student GM for WHBC) took my place as co-producer and engineer.


 * But for some reason my name never shows up on any of the "definitions" of the Quiet Storm Radio Show or in your definition (Jack C. Shuler). (Unsigned post, Nov. 3, 2006 - 159.142.156.173)Jack C. Shuler HU Communications (Dirty 30) Class of 1977.209.244.42.173 01:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your contribution. Why didn't you sign your post?  I find it amazing that Hughes did not bother to correct Robinson's obvious mistake on her show. It's unseemly to take credit for something that you didn't do/never happened.  I have a lot of respect for what she's genuinely accomplished, but, IMO, among those of us who know better, it just made her look bad.  deeceevoice 17:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It took me a long while, but it finally came to me. I believe the sister's name, who posted the above comment, is Robin Holden.  Gurl, step up and identify yasself! :) And I mean how incredibly tacky is it that Hughes allowed Smokey Robinson's comment about "The Quiet Storm" staring on one of her radio stations to go uncorrected?  I mean just day-um!deeceevoice 16:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Oops. Just saw the add-on in the signature space.  Jack SHULER?  You're completely unfamiliar to me!  If there is corroborating evidence of your involvement somewhere in print, please provide it, and I'll be more than pleased to include your contributions to the development of the category in the article.  Or, even better, you can do it yourself.  We/I aim to set the record straight.  Peace.  deeceevoice 16:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

SNL sketch
How about something about the Saturday Night Live sketch? 71.82.214.160 07:15, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Smokey-robinson-page-display.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Identical content
This page uses material from http://www.jazzysradio.com/ Basically the whole text. It will need to be rewritten or removed as it's plagiarism. 59.167.53.18 (talk) 15:23, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Great source to expand/improve this article with
I recently cited this source--a chapter by Jason King in Eric Weisbard's 2007 book Listen Again: A Momentary History of Pop Music--which has about 25 pages or so on quiet storm and its artists. I've only used it so far to clarify in the article that this is in fact a subgenre, not just a radio format, and to start a "Characteristics" section like the one in Neo soul. I'm not too invested in this article, though, so any one interested, please feel free to read through King's chapter! Dan56 (talk) 07:17, 24 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Except that Jason King says quiet storm is a "super genre" containing multiple music genres, especially contemporary R&B, jazz fusion and pop. King does not define it as a subgenre of R&B. Binksternet (talk) 15:26, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

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RfC: Should "quiet storm" be identified in the lead as a radio format, genre/subgenre, or both?
Content dispute over identifying this as a radio format, genre/subgenre, or both. Dan56 (talk) 22:34, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Votes

 * Both - Per listing of numerous expert sources below, verifying its dual existence/reference as both a radio format and as a subgenre of R&B. Dan56 (talk) 22:34, 15 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Subgenre - It's not really a "format" in the general sense of the word in radio (I worked in radio for over a decade). It's more of a "specialty show". It's a generally softer form of the Urban AC format that is typically seen as the format's equivalent to what Delilah does for mainstream AC stations. I don't think it would be proper to identify it as its own format; subgenre, sure, but format, no. Striker force Talk 14:09, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Despite your radio experience, the reliable sources describe quiet storm as a radio format, for instance in this article in Billboard which starts, "In 1986, the quiet storm radio programming format grew into an important tool..." Two other places in the article it says "quiet storm format", and other Billboard articles make the same connection, for instance "Quiet Storm Sweeps Black Radio", which disproves your notion that the format was only a specialty show. Many 1980s and 1990s periodicals can be found discussing the quiet storm radio format. The respected 2013 Routledge book What the Music Said: Black Popular Music and Black Public Culture says quiet storm is a radio format. Sorry. Binksternet (talk) 16:43, 21 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Super-genre per Associate Professor Jason King of the Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music at NYU. He says in "The Sound of Velvet Melting" that "quiet storm" started out in 1976 as a radio format "niche" and then in the 1980s "expanded beyond radio to emerge as a broad catchall super-genre". Later quiet storm in the 1990s is described by King as "roomy enough" to include hip hop soul as well as the earlier soft R&B, pop and smooth jazz genres. King quotes Rolling Stones writer Ben Fong-Torres who said that quiet storm was a "blend of pop, jazz fusion, and R&B ballads..." King says that "quiet storm has always been... tied to commercial radio and major label concerns", which gives it a radio and music business definition. So all of these well-defined music genres are included in the catch-all term quiet storm, which makes it a collection of genres, a group of genres, a super-genre. Binksternet (talk) 16:43, 21 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Both as with Dan56 said it is both a radio fomat and subgenre of R&B verifying it's dual exsistnce with of numerous expert sources below. Sheldybett (talk) 06:01, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Both given the sources for both of the options. Excelse (talk) 12:01, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

 * "A smooth blend of R&B and jazz, 'quiet storm' was all the rage in the ’70s, ’80, and ’90s. Before it got attached to a radio show, a radio format, and a subgenre..." (In Tune Monthly)
 * "Though the genre... quiet storm" (Jason King, in Eric Weisbard's Listen Again: A Momentary History of Pop Music)
 * "quiet storm subgenre of soul" (James E. Perone, author, Chair of the Music Department and Professor of Music at Mount Union College)
 * "...R&B 'subgenre with quiet storm..." (Tom Perchard, writer and musicologist)
 * "the quiet storm subgenre" (Stephen Thomas Erlewine, critic and editor of AllMusic)
 * "A Quiet Storm (1975) is regarded as his best early solo album. (Its title was eventually used to name a smooth subgenre of modern R&B..." (Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll)
 * "A style of R&B that developed in the mid- to late 1970s ... is 'quiet storm' ... Apparently the style came to be regarded as an identifiable subgenre sometime after general manager of Howard ... created this format for the station..." (Richard J. Ripan, The New Blue Music: Changes in Rhythm & Blues, 1950-1999)
 * "gave its name to a style and radio format that aimed to create very similar moods." ("Quiet Storm Music Genre Overview", by AllMusic)

Obviously I can find more, and just as many expert sources appear referring to it as a radio format. So I vote for identifying the term as being for both radio format and subgenre. Dan56 (talk) 22:51, 15 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The problem with the word "subgenre" – the huge problem – is that a subgenre of something is a smaller group, contained wholly within the parent genre. A super-genre is a larger group, containing more elements than any of the several parent genres. Sub- means lesser, super- means greater. Quiet storm was never a subgenre in that sense; it was always a super-genre combination of R&B ballads, easy listening pop, and smooth jazz. The sources that call it a subgenre are referring to the chronology and the family tree, the parent-child relationship between the older parent genres and newer quiet storm child. So only in the sense of being a successor, a later amalgamation, is quiet storm called a subgenre. But sub- doesn't mean later or after, so that's an imprecise usage. We should stick with sources that use the proper terms. Binksternet (talk) 16:43, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * No matter how respected King is, he is still just one source, calling it a "super-genre." It is fine to note his opinion, but not give it such weight that it ends up defining the article's topic when the preponderance of sources define it differently. Fong-Torres seems to be describing the sound of quiet storm--that it blends pop, jazz fusion and R&B--rather than it being comprehensive of those individual genres (as a super-genre). You lost me with "the chronology and the family tree...", and the meaning of the prefix: sub- does mean "a later or secondary action of the same kind". But what it comes down and back to is: are there any other sources calling it a "super-genre"? If not, it's a fringe view. And as I said before, I am fine with leaving it as "radio format and genre", genre being representative of both the "subgenre" sources and "super-genre" (King). Dan56 (talk) 17:14, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * It's unfortunate that I lost you with the technicalities of English language, the meanings of the prefixes sub- and super- in English (as opposed to Hindi in your example), because that's my main complaint. I will never want to see quiet storm classified as a subgenre. It's bad English. Binksternet (talk) 17:31, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You've lost me with your incivility. I'm not replying any further to you and will let the RfC run its course. Dan56 (talk) 18:00, 21 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Radio format:
 * Ripani writes that quiet storm is a style of R&B that developed out of the creation of a radio format at WHUR. Regarding its supposed labeling as a subgenre, Ripani pulls his punch by writing "Apparently the style came to be regarded as..." – showing that Ripani doesn't really agree with this assessment. He confidently calls it a "style".
 * Billboard "Quiet Storm Sweeps Black Radio". This October 1986 article talks about quiet storm as a radio programming format.
 * JazzTimes magazine, 2007. "Contemporary jazz/new-age pianist Keiko Matsui is better known, but it's her ex-husband Kazu Matsui who in the 1980s was one of the architects of the quiet storm format named after a Smokey Robinson song and album from 1975."
 * That's the Joint!: The Hip-hop Studies Reader, page 363. "The subsequent Quiet Storm format, popularized on many radio stations with large black audiences..."
 * The Death of Rhythm and Blues, page 190. "...the radio format originated by WHUR in 1976 called 'the Quiet Storm.'"
 * Billboard "Rhythm & Blues". This December 1986 article says Quiet Storm is a radio format.
 * Current Biography Yearbook, 2000. The entry about Cathy Hughes says "Nevertheless, according to Charisse Jones, Howard University turned down Hughes's request to seek a license for the Quiet Storm format, claiming that it wasnt commercially viable."
 * Broadcasting & Cable magazine, 2004. Discussing the career of Cathy Hughes, "In 1975, she was promoted, becoming the first African-American woman to run a station in a major market. While there, she invented the 'quiet storm' format."
 * Black Enterprise magazine, 1995. Discussing the career of Cathy Hughes: "While there, she increased advertising revenues from $300,000 to $3.5 million, and created the popular 'Quiet Storm' format now heard on stations nationwide."
 * Who's Who in Black Washington, D.C.: The Inaugural Edition, 2009. Discussing the career of Cathy Hughes, "In 1975, Hughes became the first female vice president and general manager of a station in D.C., and created the 'quiet storm' format."
 * Robert Christgau in Christgau's Record Guide: Rock Albums of the '80s, page 47. "From its strong lounge-jazz beat to its conscious avoidance of distracting lyrical detail, it's all husky, burnished mood, the fulfillment of the quiet-storm format black radio devised to lure staider customers away from white-bread temptations like soft rock and easy listening."
 * Facing the music: a Pantheon guide to popular culture, pages 16–19. Quiet storm is described as a radio format akin to adult contemporary. "Quiet Storm represents a coming of age for black radio."
 * Biographical Dictionary of Radio, page 184. In the entry about Cathy Hughes: "Quiet Storm is recognized as a radio format, provided (by 2010) by over 400 stations."
 * Here we see lots of sources discussing the radio format called quiet storm. Binksternet (talk) 17:26, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Good job. Dan56 (talk) 18:00, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Origins earlier in the 1970s?
The article says that Quiet Storm evolved in the mid 1970s, with the quiet storm WHUR segment in 1976, and Smokey Robinson's 1975 album A Quiet Storm. However, elements of quiet storm can be heard earlier in the 1970s, for example Al Green's 1971 song Let's Stay Together. Just because the radio segment and Smokey Robinson began using the term in the mid 1970s doesn't mean that the genre didn't evolve before then. --Rubensbathsheba (talk) 12:33, 12 February 2019 (UTC)


 * According to whom? Dan56 (talk) 14:03, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Musical escape section
I edited the "musical escape" section - again - because it was very clearly not WP:NPOV and has remained so through numerous reverts. The phrasing and inconsistency of grammar was also in dire need of fixing. I believe these changes are perfectly sensible and respectful of the rules, so what's the problem? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:710E:7E00:7552:3B6C:FF25:8682 (talk) 04:07, 9 June 2022 (UTC)