Talk:Rügen narrow-gauge railway

German article name on English WP
(NOTE: This user is a native speaker of English but also speaks and reads German.) Sca (talk)


 * The title of this article is incorrect. There is no reason whatever to use the German name for the narrow-gauge railway on Rügen as the title of the article about it on the English-language Wikipedia.
 * Rügensche Bäderbahn is a combination of purely German words which have no cognates in English. (And there is no such thing as a "resort railway" in English.) Furthermore, both words contain umlauts, which do not appear in English except in very rare cases, and then with a different phonetic value than in German. Consequently, most readers of English Wiki are unable to read or (mentally) pronounce this article's title.
 * Personally, I have no difficulty reading Rügensche Bäderbahn and understand it completely. But this is English Wikipedia. It may reasonably be presumed that most readers of English Wikipedia speak English as a first or second language, and understand that language well. It may not be presumed that most of them speak or understand German. Most of them don't.
 * The logical title of this article on English WP would be Rügen Narrow-Gauge Railway or (downstyle) Rügen narrow-gauge railway. I propose to move the article to re-title it as the latter. Sca (talk) 21:29, 29 August 2016 (UTC)


 * PS: To illustrate the principle, the title of the German Wikipedia article about the U.S. president's residence is titled Weißes Haus, and the English White House is added only parenthetically. This is correct. Sca (talk) 21:47, 29 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Strictly the title is not "incorrect" as there is no convention for this type of railway. And the umlauts don't matter because, Wikipedia is neutral about their use. However, I normally translate railway line names into the equivalent English anyway; I just didn't in this case because, as you say, there's no real precedent for naming something a "resort railway". All that said, I see that the German title is now Rügensche Kleinbahn. The nearest equivalent of Kleinbahn is "Light Railway" - a Kleinbahn, just like a "light railway", is a line of secondary importance that uses lighter materials and may be standard or narrow gauge. The change in German Wiki title gives us an opportunity to Anglicize this one as you propose. But for translation accuracy we ought to move it to "Rügen Light Railway". "Rügen Narrow Gauge Railway" is also a good suggestion, but the German equivalent for that is Schmalspurbahn not Kleinbahn. See e.g. Harz Narrow Gauge Railways or Nassau Light Railway. HTH. Cheers. --Bermicourt (talk) 19:46, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Page moved to Rügen narrow-gauge railway. This is English Wikipedia. Sca (talk) 23:44, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
 * PS: In U.S. English, "light rail" usually refers to modern urban rail lines, while "narrow-gauge railway" refers to historical rail systems, such as the Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad. – Sca (talk) 23:51, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sca, it's not very polite or good practice to move the page pre-emptively during a discussion. US terminology and hyphenation (it's "narrow gauge railway" according to the UIC definition) are not deciding factors here. "Light railway" (not "light rail") has been used to refer to railways of light, sometimes narrow gauge, construction since at least 1892 in Europe and 1896 in Britain. So it's clearly the equivalent term and one which has some precedent on Wikipedia. It's also a proper name and should be capitalised. --Bermicourt (talk) 06:32, 31 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Let's stick to the language issues raised above. As WP:EQ admonishes, "argue facts, not personalities."
 * Correctness is not a function of convention. Convention, i.e. common practice, may be mistaken – that is to say, wrong in terms of functional prose. The goal here is reader comprehension. In this regard, that one should write in the language understood by the audience is so obvious that further debate is pointless. Hence the title change.
 * Re use of "US (sic) terminology and hyphentation," MOS notes that "the English Wikipedia prefers no major national variety of the language over any other."
 * I hyphenated "narrow-gauge" because it's a compound modifier. (Narrow modifies gauge, which together modify railway.) That's standard practice in U.S. publishing. Without the hyphen, the phrase can be read with narrow modifying something called a "gauge railway," which is nonsensical. However, I concede that "narrow gauge railway," unhyphenated, seems in common use and thus is familiar to many. If the consensus among eds were that it shouldn't be hyphenated, I wouldn't object.
 * Likewise, if a consensus here favored changing the English title to (upstyle) Rügen Narrow(-)Gauge Railway, I wouldn't mind. This question may be argued either way. (In the last half-century, U.S. journalism has mostly gone to downstyle headlines; however, some newspapers, notably NYT, still adhere to the earlier upstyle.) Sca (talk) 14:28, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Reader comprehension is of course important, but the primary factors are a) what English-speaking sources use and b) accurate translation. Whilst Google hits need to be treated with caution, it is indicative that "Rügen Light Railway" is the more WP:COMMONNAME with 1,230 hits as opposed to 738 with "Rügen Narrow Gauge Railway". Google books only has one hit for the former but none for the latter. So both in terms of WP:COMMONNAME and translation accuracy, "Rügen Light Railway" appears to be the better title. Cheers. Bermicourt (talk) 17:47, 31 August 2016 (UTC)