Talk:R.E.M./Archive 3

Band photo
Does anyone have a band photo that actually includes all the members of the band?Edgessouth 21:40, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Band name
Anyone know why they called themselves R.E.M.? Does it stand for anything? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.67.64.44 (talk) 16:40, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

As far as I understand, "R.E.M." means "Rapid Eye Movement", which is a stage in the sleep process.

--Alvabass 04:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

A note on GA status
I see that this article was at one time a Featured article or FA candidate. However, the article is not listed as a  Good Article . As part of the Rock music WikiProject, it is suggested that an article achieve Good Article (GA) status before having it's candidacy re-newed. So be sure that points from any previous Features article candidate (FAC) archives and peer reviews are taken and applied to the article, and shoot for a GA nomination. Good luck! -- Reaper  X  22:37, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

NO CONSENSUS to move page, per discussion below. -GTBacchus(talk) 01:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC) I suggest to move this page to R.E.M. not only because R.E.M. already redirects to R.E.M. (band) but also because R.E.M. with periods between the letters seems to refer to the band only, while REM without periods seems to be the usual abbreviation for Rapid Eye Movement. The only other article titled R.E.M. with periods, R.E.M. a record by a Chicago-based band Green, is according to me less notable (the members named their album R.E.M. because of R.E.M. album Green). Your comments are welcomed, please write them below. Thanks. Frédérick Lacasse (talk • contribs) 20:51, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Survey
Add "# Support" or "# Oppose" on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

 * 1) Support. See P.O.D. Not confusing at all. The periods disambiguate it from "REM" fine. After the flip, there'd be some double redirects to fix, but not that many relatively speaking. Crumbsucker 06:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Support. The requested page name R.E.M. is just a redirect back to R.E.M. (band) anyway, so it's an unnecessary disambiguation. I've seen many move requests like this added to the Uncontroversial proposals list and performed straight away with no discussion, all the proposer is requesting is that the redirect be swapped around. Saikokira 06:06, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in opposition to the move

 * 1) Oppose, there's no need to tinker with this, it is fine as is, and it may just create confusion for new users down the road. -- Reaper   X  21:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Oppose. Don't make more work for yourself - it's likely to be a waste of time, because That's How Wikipedia Works™. - Dudesleeper · Talk 21:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Oppose.  There's no overriding reason to move the article.  I would readily argue that R.E.M. should point to disambiguation, not to this article.  (I think REM should point to disambiguation as well.) -- ChrisB 01:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Oppose. It's just fine the way it is. --Guinnog 19:36, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Oppose. The other articles, particularly on REM sleep and its association with dreaming, are at least as important in the context of an encyclopedia.  I would actually agree w/ ChrisB that both "REM" and "R.E.M." should point to disambiguation. -- Turangalila  (talk) 22:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Discussion
Add any additional comments
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Campaigning and activism section?
Since it's noted in the lead that R.E.M. delivered a wider political and social message (I've spotted that they performed on the Vote for Change tour and support Burmese freedom), would it be worth creating such a section (like U2)? What are your thoughts? CloudNine 10:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That was my thought too. Funny how we've ended up working on articles where such a thing is necessary. WesleyDodds 10:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

"Fall on Me" soundclip
Can someone upload a fair use sample of "Fall on Me" for the "Musical style" section? I'm thinking of the prechorus ("Buy the sky/Sell the sky . . .") leading into the chorus, since it showcases Peter Buck's guitar playing and the harmonizing between Michael Stipe and Mike Mills. WesleyDodds 10:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I should be able to get hold of one later today. CloudNine 11:13, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I have it. Ceoil 11:15, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Article database
rem-central.com is home to articles about R.E.M. all the way back to July 1980. It'll be helpful when referencing at least, although we should't link to the articles themselves. CloudNine 13:44, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * We may not need to use it too much anyways. The R.E.M. Companion has a lot of the best, so I've been citing those a lot. WesleyDodds 21:15, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Formation
Here's a useful nugget of information from User:Ceoil/REM (4. R.E.M.):

Peter, the guitar player, was working at a record store in town that sells contraband records and promotional stuff, and I'd go in there and buy records. It turns out that I was buying all the records that he was saving for himself. We just kind of built up a rapport, cause it was obvious that we liked the same kind of music. He moved into the church, and they needed a roomate, so I moved in.

If anyone can work it into the first paragraph (I'm finding it hard to phrase it properly), I'm sure it would add something to the article. CloudNine 19:03, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. WesleyDodds 08:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Watertower incident?
I read something in the Mike Mills article about the "watertower incident" where Mills was arrested for indecent exposure. Can someone elaborate on exactly what happened? I think it should be explained in the article. 03:45, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

GAC result

 * Well writtten: Yes
 * Comprehensive: Yes
 * Image Matters: Proper
 * Sources: FA style
 * Neutrality and Stability: Need no comments
 * Result: GA Pass Vikrant Phadkay 16:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:R.E.M. Fall On Me 24 second OGG.ogg
Image:R.E.M. Fall On Me 24 second OGG.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:04, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Merge from Late Show with David Letterman (R.E.M.)
Six vastly seperated appearances on a late night talk show is not that notable, and there are no sources to prove this is notable. The fact that they debuted on television on the show can easily be mentioned here. I proded the article in early January and it was removed with the message "will work on merge", however since then, there has been a merge attempt and that was quickly reverted. -- Scorpion0422 23:35, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I tried to redirect it. If it we're redirected, it should probably be redirected to Late Night with David Letterman. WesleyDodds (talk) 03:47, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

mujahideen?!
Stipe sings like mujahideen? Surely that doesn't make a lot of sense. I would assume that the sources refers to, or intends to refer to, muezzin. Would someone check? 24.41.8.78 (talk) 03:20, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Direct quote. I can assure you that's what it says in the book cited. WesleyDodds (talk) 04:45, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * How strange. Thanks for checking.  24.41.8.78 (talk) 05:33, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I would say that someone who does not know the difference between "mujahideen" and "muezzin" (plainly what is intended) cannot be considered a reliable source on the application of either word. We can't leave this in the article. It's arrant nonsense to say that Michael Stipe sounds like a mujahideen. It's roughly the same sort of category mistake as me saying "Fairuz sounds like a Communist". I'd favour removing the quote entirely and finding something better to describe Stipe's singing. Howfar (talk) 00:37, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * What would you say about someone who doesn't know how to spell "errant nonsense"?
 * Plus you missed the fact that "mujahideen" is plural. The original writer
 * should have said that Michael sounded like a "mujahid." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.77.67 (talk) 17:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It's one of the better quotes I can find where someone describes his singing. WesleyDodds (talk) 04:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Post Grunge ?
okay the album monster how in the world did it avoid being labeled as as post grunge with that cop out that it was influence by seventies rock ,there is no doubt in my mind this album was influenced by grunge,it has the loud quite dynamic it has the angst filled lyrics it came out after 1992,i mean me my self love post grunge the good stuff from the early and mid 90's but post grunge is apart of there style--Wikiscribe (talk) 17:38, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You can believe what you want, but that doesn't belong in the article. WesleyDodds (talk) 22:28, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Infobox album chronologies
WesleyDodds changed the chronologies to, I think, only include studio albums in studio-album articles (i.e., you can't navigate to And I Feel Fine... from the infobox in Around the Sun, yet you can navigate back to Around the Sun from the infobox in And I Feel Fine.... In short, it seems to be a mess. What's the Wikipedia standard for this? Hopefully not the status quo, because I prefer to see things in order since the albums don't seem to be listed chronologically in an all-inclusive list anywhere on Wikipedia. - Dudesleeper /  Talk  16:36, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Per the infobox guidelines, only studio albums are listed. There are separate infoboxes for compilations, EPs, and so forth, so those would be in order, too (ie. In Time is followed by And I Feel Fine). WesleyDodds (talk) 21:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The compilations etc. ones might need to be looked at. I noticed one was changed earlier today, but it's too far gone from the top of my watchlist now to look for quickly. - Dudesleeper / Talk  23:30, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops. Fantailfan (talk) 14:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Place (comma) country (comma)
With regards to my last edit, please see point 13 here (an American college website) - Dudesleeper / Talk  14:05, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

"Shiny Happy People" on Green, not Out of Time
The third paragraph of the section "Breakthrough success: 1987–1993" deals with the album "Out of Time" and notes that "Losing my Religion" was the big hit of the album, and then goes on to say:

"The album's second single. 'Shiny Happy People' (one of three songs on the record to feature vocals from Kate Pierson of fellow Athens band The B-52's), was also a major hit, reaching number 10 in the US and number six in the UK.[20]"

Maybe I'm a bit rusty with the discography here, but I'm 99% certain that "Shiny Happy People" appeared on Green, not on "Out of Time." (I owned the 1st album, never had the second.)

Can someone confirm and correct?

StrangeAttractor (talk) 03:18, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's definitely on Out of Time. The singles from Green are "Orange Crush", "Stand", "Pop Song 89", and "Get Up". WesleyDodds (talk) 04:25, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Damn, my mind is fresher today (99% certain - yeah, that means a lot). You're right; the article is right, too. I was confusing "Shiny" with "Stand." (Don't like either song, but were big hits, and muddled in my mind.)


 * If someone editing this page wants to delete this section of the discussion, please go ahead, it doesn't add anything useful. StrangeAttractor (talk) 00:06, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Hindu Love Gods?
Did I miss it? No mention of recording the record with Warren Zevon [and touring with same]. Seems significant enough to include. --67.162.131.40 (talk) 16:39, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It wasn't involving R.E.M. as such. Stipe wasn't involved. - Dudesleeper / Talk  21:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Jefferson Holt
In the current description, Jefferson Holt is said to have been a "record store owner". Jefferson was an employee at Schoolkids Records in Chapel Hill, but was not the owner, or even the manager. I believe that Eric Brown was the owner, but I can't confirm that.

Dcell59 (talk) 19:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll check the source. WesleyDodds (talk) 21:25, 9 May 2008 (UTC)