Talk:RKO General

Removal of Redundant Wording
Ok, clearly someone wasn't thinking when they did the list of radio stations owned by RKO General, there clearly is no need to put the word Owned by next to each company's name when it is listed under the Ownership paragraph to me that just seems redundant and overkill so I've deleted the Owned by on each line. Apparently this was an issue on the Metromedia page with a few users which erupted into an editing war which I don't want to see here so before you make any changes please discuss it here. Simon Bar Sinister (talk) 07:01, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me. But there's no call for unprovoked comments like "Ok, clearly someone wasn't thinking..." The nicer we try to keep the atmosphere, the more productive the working environment. All the best, Dan.—DCGeist (talk) 07:12, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, I apologize I didn't mean to put something that was construed as provking. Simon Bar Sinister (talk) 15:30, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Here we go again, someone put back all the Owned By under the Radio Station Current Ownership, I've removed it again as the previous consensus was that it was redundant so I've removed it again. Simon Bar Sinister (talk) 01:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:MutualTowerLogo.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Recent changes...
...made to the article over the past day by me were wholly reverted by DCGeist and labeled as "inappropriate". In reality, they are far from that.


 * 1. There was lots of redundant Wiki-links and redirects that needed to be corrected.
 * 2. Clarification was needed in mentions of RKO General broadcasting properties. The FM and television stations needed the respective -FM or -TV suffix added onto their call signs to distinguish them from the AM stations.  And, since AM radio is the longest-standing medium, there is no need to tack on -AM after the call sign; the word radio has and can be used as a substitute for -AM. (eg. WOR radio, WOR-FM, and WOR-TV)  The FCC doesn't use an -AM suffix officially, and there really isn't a need for it here.
 * 3. The "long-standing, stable, and proper style" in the main text (as DCGeist claims) needed some fixing. The first paragraph, for example, was really in need of correcting -- all those hyphens separating the stations and their locations is incorrect style when written within a paragraph, and is only appropriate when written in an outline format (like this portion of this comment).
 * 4. WEAT and WEAT-TV: I wanted to get an accurate timeframe (and an accompanying source) as to when RKO owned these stations before adding them to the charts, but Azumanga1 re-added WEAT-TV to the TV chart anyway.
 * 5. Other corrections: Some city and state names were spelled out and wikified; the major building blocks of RKO General (Yankee Network, Don Lee, Bamberger, Mutual) were bolded in their first mention to signify their importance; and the network histories of WNAC-TV, WHBQ-TV, and CKLW-TV were expanded upon briefly. Nothing wrong with any of that.

DCGeist (primarily) has done a very good job with researching and sourcing this article, but please remember one thing: it's not just yours. Give others the benefit oof the doubt. Rollosmokes (talk) 08:18, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Update
DCGeist is reverting this article to his preferred version, while evading real discussion. In his last edit, he claimed he was reverting "long-standing, proper style per previous explanation in Talk and WP:MOS". Only there was no discussion from his viewpoint in either his talk page, or the article's talk page. I don't want to get into an edit war, but it may go there unless he responds and explains why he continues to revert back to his version while ignoring others' good-faith edits.

This is not about who's version of this article is better, who's writing style is better, or any of that -- this is strictly a professional critique on how the article needed to be improved. Until DCGeist responds to this, I'm reverting back. Rollosmokes (talk) 04:59, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Re:WEAT -- Sorry. I added a "fact" tag, but you can remove it wholesale (along with the RKO category from WPEC's article), if you wish. -- azumanga (talk) 06:04, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Very simply, Rollo, you have
 * 1) Violated the essential Manual of Style dictum: "When either of two styles is acceptable, it is inappropriate for an editor to change an article from one style to another unless there is a substantial reason to do so."
 * 2) Introduced specifically deprecated style, such as spaced double hyphens in place of properly unspaced em-dashes. A couple instances of spaced em-dash plus hyphen were even conjured.
 * 3) Introduced incoherent language, such as "On June 21, 1948, the Yankee Network launched WNAC-TV (now WHDH-TV), both Boston's and New England's third television station (after WBZ-TV, also in Boston, and WNHC-TV [now WTNH] in New Haven, Connecticut)." That is a self-evident error that you have created where there was no error before: WNAC was not Boston's third television station.

I apologize that restricting my observations to edit summaries and not engaging here on the Talk page inspired you to threaten an edit war in the article edit summary—an abuse of our shared Wikipedia forum I'm sure you regret.

In order to not further offend your sensibilities, I will not do a sweeping revert again but address the errors and infelicities you have introduced section by section. In cases where we simply have a difference of opinion on syntax, I'm happy to seek out a middle ground.—DCGeist (talk) 20:40, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The recent introduction of parentheticals identifying the present-day names of former RKO General stations adds unnecessary clutter to an article that is already dense with initialisms and bluelinks. The latter-day names are not essential to the network's history; those readers particularly interested in the current identity of the stations can both (a) easily call up the relevant articles via the main text bluelinks and (b) refer to our tables at the bottom of the article. I'm restoring the former style in these cases for sense and for ease of reading.—DCGeist (talk) 20:56, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I've accepted your elimination of the (AM) indicators (not -AM, as you suggest). While I think they help clarify, the article is a bit easier to read without them.—DCGeist (talk) 22:08, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * And yet, I wonder. Your preferred style leads us into imprecise statements such as this: "In 1956 WOR radio became the New York market's number one station." That's just not correct. There were two WOR stations at that point and only one was the New York market's number one station: WOR (AM). The fact that anyone very conversant with radio history would know that in 1956 the leading station would have to be the AM one is not truly relevant; the language should be both precise and transparent to all. When the sentence read "In 1956 WOR (AM) became the New York market's number one station" it was both. Now it is neither. If you don't want to return to the former, long-standing, and yes, perfectly proper style, what solution do you propose?—DCGeist (talk) 23:14, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It's been a few days. I'd still like to hear if you have any alternate solution to restoring the (AM) indicators for clarity. I've looked at how The New York Times and a couple books in the field deal with a similar situation to ours: coverage of many radio stations, some AM, some FM. From the 1950s forward, none refer to the AM stations simply as "radio", while providing indicators solely for the FM stations; all specifically indicate both AM and FM where necessary for clarity. Unless you can offer a well-evidenced case for your preferred style that also resolves the problem of precision and clarity, I'm going to need to restore the former, long-standing style employed in the article—at least from the historical point where FM becomes a significant factor forward.—DCGeist (talk) 17:25, 29 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, it's now been more than three weeks, and there's been zero response. I'm restoring the (AM) indicators for accuracy and clarity.—DCGeist (talk) 09:08, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Let me say I applaud your redesign of the radio station table—it's far more appealing now.—DCGeist (talk) 22:45, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Concerning RKO General being around today as a subsidiary of Gencorp...
I've looked up whatever info I can about Gencorp (successor of General Tire, Inc.), and according to what I've come across, Gencorp no longer exists, having been re-branded as Aerojet Rocketdyne Holdings. So, not exactly sure what that means for RKO General. 2600:1700:C960:2270:B883:3493:3DAD:F4B4 (talk) 09:26, 27 March 2021 (UTC)