Talk:Raasay

Successful good article nomination
I am glad to say that this article which was nominated for good article status has succeeded. This is how the article, as of June 8, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:


 * 1. Well written?: Well written tone, clear and readable with a high standard of English.
 * 2. Factually accurate?: Accurate and well referenced
 * 3. Broad in coverage?: Yes, very. Could do with fewer redlinks, but as redlinks are not listed in the criteria for good articles, I won't let that stop the article's inclusion
 * 4. Neutral point of view?: Yes, no problems there
 * 5. Article stability? Yes, checked edit history
 * 6. Images?: All images under appropraite license, or GFDL

If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a GA review. Thank you to all of the editors who worked hard to bring it to this status. — Lurker  13:40, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080501222017/http://www.highland.gov.uk:80/yourcouncil/news/newsreleases/2008/March/2008-03-07-01.htm to http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourcouncil/news/newsreleases/2008/March/2008-03-07-01.htm

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External links modified
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090612191231/http://www.hbrg.org.uk:80/Frameset.html to http://www.hbrg.org.uk/Frameset.html

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External links modified
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I have just modified 2 one external links on Raasay. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080812054655/http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/boswell/james/b74t/chapter4.html to http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/boswell/james/b74t/chapter4.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.raasay-house.co.uk/permalink/2013/4.aspx

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Requested move 4 July 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 22:39, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Raasay → Isle of Raasay – Per WP:WIAN this is the name that the OS uses and its website. "Raasay" can then become a DAB like Commons:Category:Raasay listing the ship, Eilean Ràrsaidh and the distillery.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:38, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * With some reluctance I'd agree in this case. The DAB argument swung it.  BTW, is "Eilean Ràrsaidh" merely the Gaelic name for Raasay?  If so, a simple redirect should be dropped in. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:07, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Eilean Ràrsaidh is a distinct, tiny, entirely unconnected island in Loch Hourn which almost certainly has no anglicised rendering. Any reference to Raasay will not be to it and, with my limited understanding of Gaelic, would not be a close rendition of the pronunciation. I've removed it from the Commons dab. That leaves any dab to be between the island, the ferry to it and a distillery on it that is only just old enough (in the last few weeks) to be selling whisky; the former is manifestly the primary topic so a requirement for dab is no significant factor.
 * The island's website is https://raasay.com/ not https://isleofraasay.com/ (the latter being the site of a private individual). The first mentions on the home page are "We look forward to welcoming you to Raasay" and "ABOUT RAASAY" and mentions on the site are prefaced by "Isle of" in a few cases but overwhelmingly are not. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:01, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I've changed my mind. Mutt's arguments are the more persuasive. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:33, 5 July 2021 (UTC) [spelling corrected, sorry Mutt] Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:12, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The island's website title in Google is "Isle of Raasay" even though the URL omits that. The reference to Eilean Ràrsaidh is from GeoNames such I suppose may have an error.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:28, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by referring to something's title "in Google"? The island's website title in the island's website is not "Isle of Raasay". if you're talking about the heading in the listings of a Google search, the one I have done gives it simply as "Raasay". Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:07, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Google seems to return different headings depending on the search which I don't think I've ever seen before, when Googling "Raasay" it returns the heading as "Raasay" (though the text underneath says "Welcome to the Isle of Raasay ... Just a 25-minute ferry ride from the Isle of Skye") but with "Isle of Raasay" it returns the heading as "Isle of Raasay", Mutt and Martin do you get the same thing with your'e Google?  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 20:20, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't use Google because of their collecting and tracking of searches. DuckDuckGo returned Raasay - https://raasay.com - "We look forward to welcoming you to Raasay." as the first proper result.  Next was Visit Scotland who also refer to the place as Raasay.  Interestingly VS gives the Gaelic as "Ratharsair" meaning "Isle of the Roe Deer" so calling the place the Isle of Raasay is tautological: "the Isle of isle of the Roe Deer"! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:50, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Tautological yes there's a whole list of such places.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 21:04, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The presence on that list of Raasay being down to you, making the choice of a tautological form in preference to a non-tautological one. It says nothing to advance the tautological form as the primary one. It's not the only example in the list that is only tautological if that's the form you choose. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:49, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose. Clear common name and primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:55, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Raasay is by far the most common name. --David Biddulph (talk) 14:09, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

New front
Contributors to the debate above may find it worthy of note that the proposer is employing inventive tactics to continue on another front, see also discussion. Mutt Lunker (talk) 19:51, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Cenel Garnait
The early tenth century Scéla Cano meic Gartnáin says "A n-Inis moccu Ché[i]n ro-baí in Gartnán". Gartnain is the father of the hero Cano mac Gartnait and said to be king of hte Dal Riada. Inis moccu Chéin is identified by Colm Ó Baoill (‘Inis Moccu Chéin’, Scottish Gaelic Studies 12/1 (1976) 267-270) as Raasay. The basis for this seems related to relationship of Dùn Caan and the folk memory that it takes its name from Cannus, Denmark's son. Associating with Cannus with Cano mac Gartnait of the tale Scéla Cano meic Gartnáin.

The driving forces of the events of the tale reflect the Irish annals entries:

U668.3 Nauigatio Columbani episcopi cum reliquis sanctorum ad Insolam Uacce Albae, in qua fundauit aeclesiam; & nauigatio filiorum Gartnaidh ad Hiberniam cum plebe Sceth.

T668.1 ''Nauigaitío Colmani episcopi cum relíquiis sanctorum ad Insulam Vacce Albe in qua fundauit eclesiam. Et nauigatío filiorum Gartnaith ad Iberniam cum plebe Scith.  U670.4 Uenit genus Gartnaith de Hibernia. ''

T670.4 Uenit gens Gartnait de Hebernia.

Gartnait is mention in the 7th century Miniugud senchasa flier nAlban

Secht meic la Aedan .i. da Eochduig i. Eocho buide 7 Eocho find, Tuathal 7 Bran 7 Baithiue, Conaing, Gartnait.

Ceitri meic Gartnait meic Aedain .i. da ... [lost]

Cano mac Gartnait appears in the Irish annals:

AClon 683. Canon son of Gartnaitt entred into Religion. U688.2 ''Occisio Canonn filii Gartnaidh. ''

T688.2 ''Occisió Canonn maic Gartnain. ''

CS688 ''Occissio Canoinn meic Carnait. ''

His son:

U673.3 Gabail Eliuin m. Cuirp & Conamail filii Canonn; & Cormacc Maele Fothartaigh moritur.

His daughter:

U690.3 ''Mors Finguine Longi & Feradhaigh Meith m. Nechtleicc; & Choblaith filia Canonn moritur. ''

T690.3 Mors Finguine Longi et Feradhaigh Meith maic Nectlecc, & Coblait filia Canond mortua est. 

CS690 Mors Finguini Longilongi [expunct.] & Feradhaigh Meith meic Nectligh, et Coblaith filia Canonn mortua est 

His grandson's pedigree appears in Cethri primchenéla Dail Riata with 8th century Genelach Cenel Gabrain pedigree: ''Congus

mac Consamla mic Canai gairb mic Gartnait mic Aedain mic Gabrain''

His great-grandson:

U731.6 ''Bellum inter filium Oengussa & filium Congussa, sed Bruideus uicit Talorcum fugientem. ''

T731.5 ''Cath eter mac Aengusa & mac Congusa sed Brudheus uicit Talorcum fugientem. ''

728. — The battle between the Picts and Dalriada, where the Picts was overcome was fought. There was a battle between the sonn of Enos and the son of Congus, where Brudeus vanquished Tolorg flying.

U734.5 Talorgg m. Congusso a fratre suo uinctus est, traditur in manus Pictorum & cum illis in aqua demersus est. 

T734.4 ''Tolarg mac Congusa a brathair fen dia gabail & tuc i l-laim na Piccardach, & ro báidhedh leo-siden h-e. ''

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:a601:a715:9a00:7865:9ba:c16:f520 (talk) 17:38, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Is the meaning of Raasay as stated in this article certain and correct?
I’m asking because in old Danish Raa means bordermark, and Ay means Island. So in Scandinavian language Isle of Bordermark/Bordermark’s Island would be Raasay.

Also, reading in the article the Isle has two different characteristics in the geology it wouldn’t be too far fetched thinking the landscape by itself express ”border” since that would be what makes it stand out from other isles for a seafarer.

link to Swedish Wikipedia page on the village Råå. In the first sentence it descibes the name origin. The village is Swedish but used to be Danish. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Råå Oddtapio~enwiki (talk) 19:48, 10 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I forgot. I am Swedish who knows Danish and Norwegian. I watched Who Dares Wins with the missus and said ”A Gaelic Isle name for which I understand the meaning of!”. Oddtapio~enwiki (talk) 19:54, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Settlements
Re this edit, let’s take things in sequence roughly from top to bottom.

“Not OS settlements” – a Road Atlas may be an indication of place names but it is not a reliable indicator of ‘settlements’ especially in such a thinly populated area. Some places now all but devoid of population may well have been extensively cleared in the past and some – most famously Hallaig – may well be deserving of an article about their history, but that’s not the same as their being currently populous.


 * North Fearns - maybe has four houses on the OS map. Balachuirn likewise. Glame would appear to be a single house or maybe a small farm.

“Places classified as settlements”- you have used Geograph as a reference but once again all this does is provide a name on an OS map.


 * Brochel is a ruined castle. There do not seem to be any inhabited properties there. Callum’s Road “built single-handedly by the last remaining resident of Arnish” leads to a single property. Also according to Canmore, Torran is a single holiday home, accessible only by foot and part of the “depopulated north end of the island”.
 * Clachan and Suisnish would appear to be contiguous with Inverarish
 * Eyre has a lighthouse and maybe four houses & East Suisnish has maybe six houses
 * Oskaig would seem to have about a dozen houses and is about 1km from Clachan so may well qualify as a distinct settlement.

In short the section created by the above edit is improperly cited, contains red links that are not likely to lead to articles (Arnish is a redirect to Raasay) and too long, hence my last edit. Ben  Mac  Dui  11:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Geograph search shows if a place is an OS settlement or not, for example shows Brochel is a settlement. I also have a more complete list at User:Crouch, Swale/Isle of Raasay which the Gazetteer for Scotland has articles on some.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 11:56, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The question is not "is there a source?" it is "is there a reliable and credible source"? None of these places are census localities and I doubt the census has anything on a scale smaller than Raasay itself. I note that 4 out of the 5 Gazetteer settlements are cleared. In fact the article here is a bit weak on the clearances and this might be an opportunity to say more about that. I have a copy of MacLeod (2004), Raasay: the island and its people. It's a more historical take than its title suggests but I can find no obvious references to any of the places not currently in the article there. Human settlement offers the vague definition that "a settlement, locality or populated place is a community of people living in a particular place", which doesn't help a great deal. I can take a look at the cleared settlements soonest. If there is something legitimate to say about the others by all means add it - but this is a GA and list of red links is not, per criterion 3(b), ticking that box in my view. Ben   Mac  Dui  19:45, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * There are only 656 census localities in Scotland and only 2 on Skye yet we have articles on 95 Category:Populated places in the Isle of Skye. Yes I agree it seems some like Arnish and Torran may today appear to be a single property but they are both classified as settlements by the OS namely the search returning "[Other Settlement]" in contrast to Ardlussa showing "[other features]". The Gazetteer for Scotland calls Arnish a settlement. Indeed it may not be much of a settlement now but it was. I think we can afford to mention all the settlements and similar in this article as there are not so many that it would dominate. If it was an article like Isle of Skye I could see that there may be too many to mention but I think Raasay is small enough to mention them all. Regarding the red links I think we should try to write articles on them. I will start Draft:Eyre, Raasay which you could see if you could expand.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 20:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I have added something about Screapadal etc. I well aware that we have roughly one settlement article for every 100 people on Skye and I fear few of them say anything that isn't fairly obvious from an OS map. I am not very interested in these tiny stubs I am afraid. However there are two or three of your helpful Gazetteer refs now added and if articles appear links can now be made here. Ben   Mac  Dui  16:57, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * We have 15 categories at Commons:Category:Villages on the Isle of Raasay. Its true that many settlements on Skye and Raasay have greatly reduced in size but it seems like these places have coverage and indeed sometimes even had schools.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 19:27, 5 March 2024 (UTC)