Talk:Race to the Sea

Clean Up
Somebody really needs to clean up this article. It has little to no structure and the information is clouded and it does not flow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.168.19.196 (talk) 10:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

natural obstacle
Was the natural obstacle the sea or Antwerp? --Gbleem 14:35, 24 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The sea. Missaeagle (talk) 17:45, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

North and South
Why did they go north and not south? --Gbleem 14:47, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The OKW, German High Command, employed the Schlieffen Plan in its attack on France. Its aim was to come between the bulk of the French Army and the bulk of France so that French forces could not be supplied. This was done by attacking through Belgium and looked like working until the German advance stalled at the Marne. This stalling was partly due to an inability to keep the German supply system up with its army and partly to the weary state of its soldiers. Once stalled, its army's right flank was exposed, particularly to an attack from the relatively fresh, French garrison of Paris. This could have meant that the French Army had come between the German Army and its planned supplies. It would also have opened the German rear to attack. Each side therefore moved forces northwards to outflank the other and to avoid being outflanked
 * It was also essential that the Franco-Belgian-British forces should be in position in the North, in time to stop the taking of he Channel ports by German forces released by the breaking of Belgian opposition. This would have prevented the supply of the BEF.
 * On foot, it is a long way to go from the Marne to the North Sea coast, across seemingly endless chalk plateau but the 'race' was conducted with the help on the one side, of Entente marine forces in the extreme North and on the other, of German forces directly from Belgium. (RJP 17:24, 24 September 2006 (UTC))


 * The army couldn't move North because it had no supplies so it moved north?? --Gbleem 17:42, 24 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The German army did not move further South as it had been stopped by mainly French forces and fatigue. Once its momentum was lost, its enemies had time to move into the vacuum behind it, attack its rear and cut off some at least of its supply lines. It withdrew to the Aisne to reduce the length of its front and moved its right wing further northward to close the remaining gap. This closure process came to be called the 'Race to the Sea'. See First Battle of the Marne.
 * In a medieval war, an army could replenish its supplies by foraging and making more arrows and so on. In the seventeenth century it could make more bullets from the lead of someone's church roof. In the early twentieth century it needed ammunition to fit its own weapons and that needed an industrial infrastructure to produce it. Logistics had become more significant. (RJP 19:54, 24 September 2006 (UTC))
 * In addition we tend to overlook the role horses play. They need to be fed and watered. They can't eat grass and pull guns. The Germans lost 16 million horses (1914-18) and almost all of them died from malnutrition. Missaeagle (talk) 17:49, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Assessment
Would this article benefit from a list of battles, or a similar treatment of chronology? LordAmeth 09:09, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Recent edits
Added some gleanings from Doughty and Foley and began assembly of a casualty section, which I will add to as I discover sources.Keith-264 (talk) 10:05, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * the First Battle of Artois (27 September – 10 October) title doesn't match the datesKeith-264 (talk) 22:54, 26 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Finished the re-edit and expansion but it could do with a fresh pair of eyes casting over it.Keith-264 (talk) 17:04, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Associated pages
Have begun to move the detail on here to specific pages so will prune the overwritten sections accordingly to 1-2 paragraphs.Keith-264 (talk) 08:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Have pruned the battle sections of material transferred to the specific pages and made sure each section has a link.Keith-264 (talk) 11:51, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Mud
Is it true that the Germans opened the dykes, and that's where all the mud came from? Valetude (talk) 12:22, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * No, the Belgians did that to stop the Germans, see here Battle of the Yser.Keith-264 (talk) 13:42, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Background too long
The Background section while all correct and very well written is vastly too long. It comprises practically the entire history of WWI to that point which is just an overload of detail. I believe that the background should be slimmed down to something more like in the First Battle of the Marne. Mztourist (talk) 05:09, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

nowrap
Re this edit: On my screen, because you've nowrapped both to and from dates in one template, on my screen that forces the whole thing to go to the next line, leaving a bunch of whitespace at the end of one line. It looks something like this:

The Race to the Sea took place from about 17 September – 19 October 1914, after the Battle of the Frontiers (7 August – 13 September) and the German advance into France, which had been stopped at the First Battle of the Marne (5–12 September) and was followed by the First Battle of the Aisne (13 September – 28 September), a Franco-British counter-offensive.[a] The term describes reciprocal attempts by the Franco-British and German armies to envelop the

By changing the formatting, the "(13 September –" part fills in that area.

The Race to the Sea took place from about 17 September – 19 October 1914, after the Battle of the Frontiers (7 August – 13 September) and the German advance into France, which had been stopped at the First Battle of the Marne (5–12 September) and was followed by the First Battle of the Aisne (13 September – 28 September), a Franco-British counter-offensive.[a] The term describes reciprocal attempts by the Franco-British and German armies to envelop the northern flank of

Thus, the change. If you really prefer having that blank area, I won't argue about it but IMHO it looks bad. — howcheng  {chat} 20:42, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * It doesn't look like that on my screen but I won't spoil it for yours. Regards. Keith-264 (talk) 20:55, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Coords Comment
@Abductive left question on milhist talk page re coords. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 08:08, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Recent edits
I've just checked and Krause isn't in the references so the post 1914 tactical revolution isn't in the text. Apols must have forgotten to finish the re-edit. Keith-264 (talk) 22:03, 30 October 2017 (UTC)