Talk:Racism in Europe

Poorly written
Authors have poorly written this article, it's full of opinions, thoughts, suggestions, etc. There is no distinctive line between racism and nationalism in this text, eg. problem of Gypsies is put as Racism, and as far as I know, there is no hatred against Gypsies because of racism, but pure bigotry. I am living in areas where gypsies do live, so even if you look like gypsy, the moment you say that you are not, but other nation, those bigots will look at you differently. So please, we need to collaborate what is here racism, what bigotry. Hating Roma people even though they are different race, cannot be automatically called racism, just on the fact that they are other race. This article doesn't make any sense. Read More — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.149.183.187 (talk) 16:54, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Absurd article
This article seems to report only the opinion towards Roma people, with no correlation of such attitudes versus various factors that might influence it, rather than a comprehensive set of data. Either this article should be called "Attitudes regarding Roma People" or should be completely re-written. No mentioning of racism of Norther Europeans versus Southern Europeans is mentioned either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2406:3003:2073:1A1F:116:2853:FBEF:A449 (talk) 02:31, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Frankly bizarre
While I am all in favour of the sort of general overview of a subject articles that this tries to be, it seems to me that this one fails on numerous counts.


 * It is not well defined - what is discrimination?
 * Why "in Europe"? Is there a reason for selecting this extremely broad geographical entity?
 * If the focus is entirely on racism, then why not rename it "Racism in Europe".
 * The timescales of the various sections are all over the place.
 * In many cases, it appears to be no more than a random collection of anecdotes.
 * Some sections on major countries are merely links.

Personally, I don't believe that this project can succeed. YusufAlBinVeryNaughty (talk) 10:31, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Sadly, I agree. This page is a total mess. An overview could be useful, but there is no hope for this approach. Unfortunately there is no Racism International analogous to Amnesty International or Transparency International. jax (talk) 16:24, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I agree, but I think it can be salvaged. I think the article needs to concentrate on major incidents and NGO reports. There's too much "boy beaten up in tiny country village, attackers might be racist" sort of stories. Also "far right" by itself doesn't mean racist. Editors should have sources for this! WeiboEditor2000Sep (talk) 23:36, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Racism in Ireland
The stuff about Ireland's position towards Germany during and following WW2 is accurate but misleading because it lacks context. This wasn't about racism. This was about non-cooperation with the UK and with Churchill, who was the person who sent the black and tans into Ireland.

Racism in Sweden section
The spelling is atrocious and is grammar terrible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.15.255.227 (talk) 16:32, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

The majority of what is written about racism in Sweden is completely taken out of context and is in no way valid.

1) Carl Von Linne was the first man to create a comprehensive list of plant families, he is famous in Sweden for his biological acheivements, not his racist views - which most people are unaware of, moreover - he lived over 200 years ago!

2) 'Niger Nigerson' was an name used once by officers in a police training unit in the 3rd biggest city in Sweden, Malmö. This occured once in 2009 and received huge criticism within the Swedish media. - This is not a standard practice as the article indicates.

3) 40% of Swedish people are anti-semitic? There is no evidence at all to support this.

4) The article referred to in the swedish newspaper Aftonbladet accused the Israeli government of selling Palestinian organs, this was based upon a witness statement. It was a criticism of the Israeli government, not Jews within Israel. It was accused of being anti-semitic, yet many also believe that it was merely reporting a story based on a witness statement.

5) The rest of the 'facts' within this article may have references to sources yet no information regarding dates or percentages, to say that immigrants are discriminated against in the labour market- what country are they not? Without percentages no indication of real fact is given.

6) Perhaps the only real indication of racism in Sweden is omitted here, whilst included under the heading of other countries. Concerning nationalist parties that seek to end immigration, Sweden has the Sweden Democrats, which in according to a recent poll, would receive around 4% of the vote. Source: http://www.thelocal.se/21628/20090823/ Eden21 (talk) 17:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * But you are correct in your general criticisms of this section. The whole piece reads like a opinion piece. Hypothetical questions like "So why is Sweden choosing to ignore the rights of the Sami?" are definetely not encyclopedic. I would invite anyone with knowledge on this subject to look it over. --Saddhiyama (talk) 17:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * If anyone wants to research this, all the relevant and most recent reports (in English) are indexed here - Vizjim (talk) 05:42, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I have removed most of the problematic sentences (at least those that could be discerned to be wrong by a quick glance at the cited sources), as well as reworded others. While it may not be so glaringly opinionated anymore, there may still be some errors that I have missed. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:08, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Errors in Switzerland section
The information about Switzerland is, at least partially, wrong. "SVP passing an new naturalisation process".

1) Parties do not pass laws!!! (Democracy 101)

2) After the swiss supreme court ruled that naturalisation by ballot only (a procedure used prevously in smaller communities) was unlawfull (no possibility to appeal), there was an initiative (cf. direct democracy in CH) from SVP, which was rejected by more than 60% of the votes.

3) Also, thank God, SVP does not have a "solid grip on poewer" with some 25% of the seats in (both chambers combined).

4) It is not true either, that people have to live in a specific community for 12 years. They have to live in Switzerland for that time. Plus this only applies to people with no previous ties to Switzerland, the timeframe for other groups (people born in Switzerland, married to a swiss citizen etc.) being about 5 years, with a simplified process.

Personally I think that conbatting xenophobia and racism is very important. And that is best done with accurate and true information. Unfortunately, my english is not good enough for encyclopaedic texts, otherwise I would do the changes myself 194.124.140.39 (talk) 15:06, 19 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi - if you can point me to some English-language sources for each of these facts, I'll try to do my best to make the changes. Vizjim (talk) 15:38, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

netherlands
im surprised so little has been written about dutch racism. i know they are on the forefront of european racism, with politicians like girt wilders, and Arend Jan Boekestijn. they jumped on the band wagon of racism after 11/9, changing alot of its immigration laws, and shifting to the right wing after decades of being on the left. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FDSAF987897DSADF (talk • contribs) 05:53, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1 The Netherlands is not at the forefront of racism. I have lived here all my live as a Middle Eastern immigrant. More importantly than my personal datapoint, you would need data to back that statement up.
 * 2 Your language and grammar errors are unbelievable. This is the English Wikipedia. Please try to at least get punctuation right.
 * 3 Although right-wing populism has been on the rise in both media and politics in the Netherlands, my perception is that Geert Wilders (who is an ultra-right extremist) is not taken seriously by his political counterparts.
 * 3 Although right-wing populism has been on the rise in both media and politics in the Netherlands, my perception is that Geert Wilders (who is an ultra-right extremist) is not taken seriously by his political counterparts.


 * I hope this info can help you adopt beliefs that are closer to reality Amin (Talk) 10:53, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

I have removed the paragraph about 'zwarte pieten' that was first introduced by unknown user on 31 May 2016‎, because IMHO it does not meet Wikipedia's quality standards. The most important issue is a lack of any citations. I do believe that developments in the Netherlands regarding 'zwarte pieten' are relevant to the topic of racism in Europe. So I would encourage the author of the paragraph to rewrite it with proper citations, and then resubmit it. Fomirax (talk) 21:41, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

POV concerns
Like Immigration and crime, this article seems a list of select examples country by country. LibStar (talk) 03:43, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Article deletion discussion on anti-immigrant sentiment in contemporary Europe
Article is Growing anti-immigrant sentiment in Europe from the late 2000s, deletion discussion here.--Sum (talk) 14:30, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Danish border control
The increased control of the Danish border has absolutely noting to do with racism. So I removed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.209.248.137 (talk) 21:41, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Racism in Slovenia
A word or two about this:

"Gypsies have become the main target of Slovenian racists in the 21st century as the population is otherwise extremely homogeneous.[33]"

First of all, saying that Slovenia is "extremely" homogenous might be a bit of an exaggeration. After all, about 17% of Slovene citizens didn't identify as ethnic Slovenes in the 2002 census, and the number has probably risen as we've seen a relatively high level of immigration. The majority of non-Slovene inhabitants of Slovenia are immigrants (of various generations) from the other republics of ex-Yugoslavia.

And while it is true that Gypsies are the primary target of racism, we should also mention that "immigrants from the south" are often their targets as well. The situation has improved somewhat since the 90s (which is when the racism got really bad) in this respect, but to pretend that hatred towards the so-called "southerners" doesn't exist to a significant extent anymore would mean being blind to reality.

In any case, a bit of basic info on demographics in Slovenia:

"The majority of Slovenia's population is Slovene (83.06%). Hungarians and Italians have the status of indigenous minorities under the Constitution of Slovenia, which guarantees them seats in the National Assembly. Most other minority groups, particularly those from other parts of the former Yugoslavia (except for one part of autochtonous community of Serbs and Croats), relocated after World War II for economic reasons."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Slovenia

And here is an excellent paper that sheds light on issues of racism in Slovenia (written in the late 90s):

http://mediawatch.mirovni-institut.si/eng/mw04.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.61.49.201 (talk) 02:01, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Discrimination
Please help me in improving the article. --Gironauni (talk) 00:36, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

RfC
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:39, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Hungary
The section about Hungary is currently unfortunately very poorly written, full of vague POV statements, like "Ethnic and religious discrimination in Hungary has a long history, starting after the migration of the nomadic Hungarian tribes from the Urals". It does not talk about the real problems, but gives undue weights to particular past events in a POV interpretation. Sadly, discrimination in Europe does exist and Hungary is not an exception. Especially Roma people are discriminated, so the section should talk much more about them and much less about alleged discriminations from hundreds of years ago. K &oelig;rte F  a  { ταλκ }  19:10, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Discrimination or racism
This article used to be called "Discrimination in Europe" (still redirects here) and used to include some non-racism examples of discrimination. Why the change? 82.139.86.180 (talk) 01:57, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

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Sources removed
Looks like someone don't like Pew Research Center. // Liftarn (talk) 10:13, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Major changes need to be made
This article is really bad atm, but I think it could be salvaged. I think the article needs to concentrate on major incidents and NGO reports. There's too much "boy beaten up in tiny country village, attackers might be racist" sort of anecdotes in it. Also "far right" by itself doesn't mean racist. Editors should have sources for this!

Moreover there's some philosophical problems that need to be resolved. What precisely counts as racism?

Lastly, some of the claims need sources.

Over coming days, as long as nobody objects, I intend to strip out a lot of the unnecessary garbage mentioned above. WeiboEditor2000Sep (talk) 23:42, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Swedish section lacks vital information
1. Just as a previous commenter here says, the Swedish section says nothing about that Sweden is where the roots of intellectual, academic racism stem from. Carl von Linné introduced the academic division of humans into different races by a biased view of Europeans as the natural on top, and Asians, Africans etc as having less favorable traits that naturally put them lower than Europeans. It also doesn't mention how this further were developed by the theories of academic craniometricists Anders and Gustaf Retzius, and how this catalyzed and legitimized racism.

2. It totally lacks information about Swedish racism towards the indigenous Sami population, both historically and in present day society. This is absurd to not have in such an article. That it isn't in this arcticle is in itself a measurement of how the Samis are being treated. Most people in the world have never heard of there being an indigenous people in Sweden. Swedes know virtually nothing about them and how the Swedish state have treated them and still are.

/2021-03-08 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.34.138.94 (talk) 03:37, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Removed misleading text
I removed the following sentence from the "Netherlands" section:

A Dutch immigrant to South Africa, Hendrik F. Verwoerd, intensified apartheid.

It was shoved in between 2 paragraphs talking about 2012 and 2016. Hendrik Verwoerd died in 1966 and it is unclear why he is mentioned in the "Netherlands" section because his family emigrated from the Netherlands in 1903 when Hendrik was ~2 years old. Polygnotus (talk) 01:04, 14 November 2023 (UTC)