Talk:Radia tapes controversy/Archive 1

Hopelessly onesided and inaccurate article
This article is hopelessly onesided, badly researched, with many factual errors and uses questionable references. However, it is precisely these flaws that give this article its "exciting flavour". Removing/fixing them would render the article pointless.

As soon as the initial "fever" dies down, this article needs to be radically redone. Doing so now is pointless since the article has been written and (and is being protected) by a Wikipedia admin.

Achitnis (talk) 08:00, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The article is unprotected as of now. It was only semi protected temporarily. If an article is started by admin,it doesnt mean that it shouldn't be edited by anyone else. If you feel the article is biased, feel free to edit it. I have added information supplied by reliable sources only . Moreover the base information was added from other Wikipedia articles Barkha Dutt Nira Radia etc, which was added by others. --  Tinu  Cherian  - 08:40, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * As I said, I will wait for the "fever" to die down. But for now, I am removing Barkha's photo, which clearly shows the bias of this article (she is just one of the people in the tapes). Please remember that the tapes are primarily about Nira Radia. Try and keep focus on that. Achitnis (talk) 08:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, please do not remove the tags until the issues are resolved. That the article is "new" is not an excuse for sloppy writing and research. Achitnis (talk) 08:48, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Feel free to add the images of Nira Radia, if you have one :P Btw remember the so called "issues" are your point of view --  Tinu  Cherian  - 08:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't say Barkha's photo makes the article one-sided. She is after all the most recognised face among the journalists named. But yes, The article should also feature photos of Nira Radia, Vir Sanghvi and A Raja —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rohitbhatia (talk • contribs) 09:48, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Radia's photo, and Raja's, makes sense. But if you want to drag everyone into this, then apart from Barkha and Sanghvi, Ratan tata and all the others who have had phone conversations with Radia should also be featured. Putting JUST Barkha's photo in the article shows the bias of the piece, and in fact, the attempt to tilt the article's focus from the main subjects (Radia, Raja) to sliming prominent people. Achitnis (talk) 09:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

@ AChitnis. Agreed. However, the scandal is being called Barkhagate and not Tatagate. This is because the crux of the controversy is shifting from the tapes to the silence of the media in the days after the tapes were released. Which is also why the scam is creating so much buzz. There have been many scams in India but very few where influential journalists are implicated. User:Rohitbhatia —Preceding undated comment added 10:01, 23 November 2010 (UTC).


 * The term Barkhagate came out of the fact that a well known journalist is featured in the partial tapes that were released. None of the information released proves in any way that these journalists actually did anything more than speak to the subject (Radia) - in fact Sanghavi's article written after the conversation (http://www.virsanghvi.com/CounterPoint-ArticleDetail.aspx?ID=342 clearly shows that he in fact didn't write what he was "told" to write. Achitnis (talk) 10:16, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Atul, I am trying to make the article neutral & balanced. Please understand that I have no personal interest in defaming Barkha or others. Whatever I am writing are per sources which are referenced. --  Tinu  Cherian  - 10:04, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Tinu - make sure that you don't go overboard here. This article is about Radia, Raja, corporate PR, and scams. Try to stay away from the temptation of making this an article about Barkha, Sanghvi or other journalists, simply because they appear on the PARTIAL tapes. Both journalists have in fact openly criticized the govt and Raja many times over. That does not sound like someone who was taking "instructions". Achitnis (talk) 10:16, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I have tried to make the article neutral and balanced with both sides of views. Please discuss on the talk page for specific objections before blindly tagging again. --  Tinu  Cherian  - 11:03, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Tinu - remove the weaslish "many analysts", pointing at articles that say NOTHING of that sort. Else I am tagging this article again AND lodging a complaint with other admins. Similarly, just about every second statement that you "support" with references is actually your own interpretation, not actual, demonstratable fact. For example, you state that the tapes were the thing that led to Raja's downfall, when in fact there is NO proof for this - it is just your own conjecture. Fix the article, please, and do not remove the tags again - let some other, neutral admin, decide if my concerns have been addressed. Achitnis (talk) 11:47, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Removed "analysts" wording, that you found as objectionable. The tapes AND the CAG reports led to Raja's downfall. Please read the words carefully. Instead of blindly tagging, discuss the issues, what you see, one by one, about the article here. That becomes more constructive for both of us --  Tinu  Cherian  - 12:03, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, this article is beginning to sound like a newspaper report, instead of an encyclopedia article. Statements like "have refuted the allegations" don't belong in an article like this. The entire article is beginning to look more and more like a tabloid piece, and the entire focus seems to be - again and again - to point fingers at the journalists in question not at the actual subject of the article - Nira Radia - who without doubt was the one doing the wheeling and dealing. I know that you feel a sense of ownership of the article, but you are clearly unable to maintain its focus. Achitnis (talk) 12:13, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, could you please stop trying to discuss this article with me on twitter? Achitnis (talk) 12:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Why should I feel ownsership of the article? I am only trying to make the article better. I can't help if you are not willing to discuss the issue or co-operate --  Tinu  Cherian  - 12:17, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know - are you having difficulty understanding what I have been writing on this page? I STRONGLY recommend that yous top editing the article, and let a neutral editor review the article for tone and encyclopedia-worthiness.Oh, and calling me names on Twitter isn't improving the article in any way. Achitnis (talk) 12:21, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I humbly request you to list the article issues one by one and we discuss on it. Taking the discussion personally will not help either. I am not taking the tag off until your concerns are cleared. --  Tinu  Cherian  - 12:25, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Very carefull go through everything I have written above, especially the part about the tone of the article, which reads like a tabloid (e.g.you speak in present-tense "have refuted the allegations"). This is an encyclopedia - the article has to make sense to someone reading it in the future. This is NOT an ongoing newsfeed. You are throwing in too much insignificant detail, thereby burying the actual subject of the article. For $deity's sake, let go for a while. Let others fix the tone and content. You could learn from that. Achitnis (talk) 12:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I have notified the Indian WikiProject noticeboard, requesting that an uninvolved admin review this article and the edits. I would request both User:Achitnis and User:Tinucherian to refrain from editing the page in the meantime. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 13:55, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * For the record - I am not a contributor to the article, and apart from tagging it, have not edited anything in it, for reasons stated above. :) Achitnis (talk) 15:23, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

State specific concerns when tagging the article
I do not think it is too much to ask that whoever tags an article with a problem template give at least one sentence of explanation as to why the tags are in place. I just removed these tags. I know that there has already been debate about whether the tags should be on the article, and I am not saying that the article does not merit these tags. But it is not obvious why these tags are on the article and the talk page does not clearly explain why these tags are being used. Please give a short explanation for each tag before before re-adding any of these.

Thanks.  Blue Rasberry  22:37, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That was exactly what I was asking Achitnis. It would have been helpful if he suggests how to improve it than blindly tagging again & again --  Tinu  Cherian  - 04:11, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

After going through the article, I have no complaints about the matter as such, but what I noticed is that a lot of the article contains direct quotes either from News channel debates, or newspapers, and even Twitter. I agree that all the information in the article is very well sourced, and the actual matter of the article may not need much change. But I feel that if the use of direct speech is minimised more, the article may be better. At present, I feel that the article is like a collection of the responses the media and the people have to this controversy. Good day. MikeLynch (talk) 07:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Too many instances where the word 'alleged' is used. The first line stated 'Nira Radia's alleged conversations', The conversations are available for all to hear. No one is 'alleging' that she had a conversation, I guess everyone is pretty sure she did. ALso, there is no 'alleged' media blackout. It has very clearly happened. It would be helpful if the article states which publications have reported on the topic because very few have. The blackout by TV Channels is complete. Ideally the tapes should have been playing on every primetime given the Indian electronic media's penchant for sensationalism. (Rohit Bhatia (talk) 08:19, 24 November 2010 (UTC))
 * The telephonic conversations are real ( None of them have denied that it didnt take place) while the media blackout is alleged ( Thought it is evident :) ). IMHO, let us keep the media blackout as alleged, until proven, for the "neutrality" of the article. -- <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu  <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian  - 11:06, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * There are a few words which I feel don't reflect the neutral tone of an encyclopedia. For example: "The Times of India finally opened up on November 25, 2010" - what is the word "finally" doing here? As you mentioned, the phrase "against an attempted blackout orchestrated" needs to be changed to "allegedly attempted". Otherwise it seems to be pretty decent - Bhagwad (talk) 19:29, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I have tagged the entire article for POV because paragraphs of hagiography have been prepended, which obscures the purpose of the article which is to give an account of the controversy. 16 February 2011

Lobbying?
"The transcripts[19] and audio tapes were interpreted as lobbying by Dutt for the ruling Congress Party.[6][20]"

The referred-to articles say nothing of that sort, and this is pure conjecture. In fact, the only statement was


 * In a rejoinder in the case, the petitioners submitted, "These conversations were given by the Directorate of Income Tax (Investigations) to the CBI more than a year back. A copy of the taped conversations of Ms Radia with Respondent No. 5 (A. Raja), other politicians, Ratan Tata, other corporates, senior journalists and certain middlemen in a CD are annexed as Annexure P35 ¦ Some of the transcripts of the conversations which relate to the lobbying for making Respondent No. 5 as Telecom Minister are annexed as Annexure P36.

It does not say who did the lobbying. It certainly did not name Dutt (as the article says) or Sanghvi, nor do the transcripts support this conjecture - the lobbying was being done by the subject of the phone tap: Nira Radia.

And if that is accepted to be correct, it deflates the entire basis for the remainder of the article. Even worse - while the transcripts show discussion and "instructions", there is no proof at all that the journalists actually violated ethics (they may have, but there is NO proof for that). In fact, in the case of Sanghvi, it is clearly demonstratable that he did NOT in fact "take dictation", but wrote a very neutral and balanced article, seen here: http://www.virsanghvi.com/CounterPoint-ArticleDetail.aspx?ID=342.

Wikipedia is not about the truth - it is about facts that can be proved. If you use that principle to evaluate this article, a lot of stuff is going to end up roadkill. This is not a newspaper where you can hide behind "allegedly" - the second you use that in the article, you admit that you have no evidence or proof.

Also, journalists use all sorts of methods to get information out of subjects - and all one sees in the transcripts is journalists doing what they do all the time. But nowhere in the public material written/reported by them is there any evidence of violation of ethics. The conversations with Radia were meant to be private - just because they were leaked does not make them public statements that the journalists have to be accountable for.

I am not defending the journalists here - they may have violated ethics somewhere (and if they did, they should be punished), but there is no proof of that in the Radia Tapes, and twisting facts or re-interpreting doesn't become proof, either.

Achitnis (talk) 13:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

But in many articles, I could see , editors using the world allegedly. eg; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Michael_Ramirez_cartoon_allegedly_threatening_President_Bush.gif, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_allegedly_involved_in_Russian_apartment_bombings

Also, there are a lot of references to reputed sources Like WSJ and WP to prove the stand. jijoy21 —Preceding undated comment added 15:08, 23 November 2010 (UTC).


 * Neither of the examples you quoted are articles as we understand them to be. And "allegedly" is a newpaper term, not something you should use in an encyclopedia. And encyclopedia documents provable facts, not uncertainties.
 * The linked-to articles in WSJ etc merely describe the controversy, but do not offer any evidence or proof of complicity. They are used as (what I like to call) "subjective references" - referring to them gives the appearance of legitimacy of a statement, but if you actually check, you will find that they don't actually support the point.
 * Achitnis (talk) 15:29, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

WSJ and WP articles, points out the involvement of Barkha Dutt and other journalists in the issue( I don't believe, defamation suits are unfamiliar to them so without any reason , they will not name someone in the articles ). Also from I heard the tapes, Barkha Dutt ,was talking as a middle person between two political parties. Also, Barkha Dutt never denied that it's her voice or the discussion never took place. I quoted the links as wikipedia articles to show that, already the term "allegedly" is in use in wikipedia. I am merely pointing out that ,Burkha Dutt was acting more as a middle man. jijoy21 —Preceding undated comment added 16:11, 23 November 2010 (UTC).

The phrase lobbying by Barkha Dutt is incorrect. However From the tapes it is clear that she was relaying information between Radia and The congress party. Words which come to my mind are go-between, mediator, intermediary, liason etc. Ganeshran (talk) 21:25, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Radia tapes did not unveil 2G scam
I have removed the following line from the article since its incorrect.

These phone recordings led to the unveiling of the 2G spectrum scam of a record $40 billion involving former Telecommunications and IT Minister A. Raja and other politicians, corporates and industrialists, government officials, middlemen and media persons, and subsequent Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) reports

Commented related ref as well here.

I think the 2G scam was known long before anyone knew of these tapes and even the resignation of Raja happened before this expose. The above statement is factually incorrect. It may be rephrased with "alleged involvement of media", but the above form is totally misleading.  Srikanth (Logic)  17:18, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I had copied the extract from another Wikipedia article Nira Radia, from which I forked this article on the controversy. Having said that the tapes were known as early as April 2010, when The Pioneer and Mail today broke out those stories. Nira Radia has sent legal notice to the Pioneer on the article "Tapped & Trapped" published in April 2010 on their newspaper. -- <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu  <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian  - 04:09, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * But i guess 2G scam was out in open long before 2009 elections. So essentially radia tapes didnt do any expose with respect to scam, just added more references to scam.  Srikanth (Logic)  05:08, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Point taken -- <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu  <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian  - 06:09, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Proposal to rename the article
What is the focus/subject of this article?

Is the focus of this article the fact that Radia spoke to specific people (from the article it appears that the most important people are the two journalists), or is it about the wheeling, dealing and lobbying by Radia? The tapes do no indict anybody per se, and far more damning conversations have been revealed in them, but this article addresses none of these.

The lead paragraph instantly names SOME people appearing on the tapes, but hardly the most prominent ones. In fact, one cannot understand why it is so important to the editor to quickly name (and continue to name - count the instances) of the journalists, while totally ignoring far bigger names (including industrialists, editors, financial people, etc.) who appear prominently in the tapes.

This article continues to be what it was originally - a vehicle for slamming a few prominent people (against whom no actions other than phone conversations have been proven), while carefully refusing to discuss (or even name) other people, let alone the actual subject of the article.

I propose that we rename this article to "Radia conversations with two journalists" to make it reflect more accurately the nature of this article.

I continue to hold back from editing the article, because I clearly have a strong opinion about the fairness of this "playing-to-the-gallery" article. As I have said before - if the journalists have actually taken wrongful actions, they should be hauled up, but having conversations on the phone is neither proof, nor Wikipedia-compatible fact, of any wrongful action.

I notice that the article is now tagged by someone else other than me, so clearly I am not the only one with this opinion.

Achitnis (talk) 04:03, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong Disagree : Renaming the article to "Radia conversations with two journalists" is a strong POV from the above user. Kindly note the other user objected your huge tag and replaced it with this. Please note what the user said above "I do not think it is too much to ask that whoever tags an article with a problem template give at least one sentence of explanation as to why the tags are in place. I just removed these tags." Hope that explains. It is NOT the job of Wikipedia to investigate whether somebody did wrong or right but to document verifiable facts using reliable sources available. Request Achitnis to help improve the article than have a pointy discussion. -- <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu  <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian  - 04:44, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Tinu, you seem to be very confused now. The tags were removed by one user, and the new tags were place later by someone else. And my recommendation to rename the article is clearly a sarcastic one, given your heavy POV of continuously referring to the journalists, rather than the larger picture that this article is supposed to cover. Achitnis (talk) 09:24, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Strong Disagree : As per WP:COMMONNAME. Radia tapes search gives 381K results while Radia conversation search gives 102K results. While its not the only / reasonable measure, I still feel Radia tapes reflect the article much better for covering the subject since its not only about 2 people.  Srikanth (Logic)  11:01, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * As I said in reply to Tinu - I was being sarcastic, and was referring to the frantic attempts to highlight specific people throughout the article, repeatedly. The article completely buried the real big picture with "personalities". Achitnis (talk) 11:26, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Article rename
The current name of this article is Nira Radia tapes controversy, and before that it was Radia tapes controversy. Nira Radia is not the most important part of this article. As Logic says above, Radia tapes has about 400k Ghits and Radia conversation has 100 Ghits, but the media is calling this issue the "2G spectrum scam" (1200 Ghits) and the "2G spectrum scandal" (1500 Ghits). Because the top-ranked sources for "2G spectrum scam" include the Deccan Chronicle, the Wall Street Journal, the Hindustan Times, and others of what I perceive to be more reputable sources than "2G spectrum scandal," I am renaming this article "2G spectrum scam" right now. I am not expecting this to be controversial. Comments?  Blue Rasberry  15:54, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not really sure. I think the primary point of this article was the Nira Radia tapes controversy in specific. MikeLynch (talk) 16:45, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe I should say more. I feel that there must be a "2G spectrum scam" article.  The amount of money missing is equivalent to twice what India's government pays yearly for public healthcare, so I see this as a huge issue.  Incidental to that, there is the tapes issue and some purported media censorship about discussing the "2G spectrum scam."
 * I feel that the tapes issue is secondary to the scam, because were it not for the scam the tapes issue would not stand out as being particularly unusual. Is there a need for two articles - one for the scam, and one for the tapes controversy? Also, the Nira Radia article is being AfD'd right now or considered for merging into this article.  Should there be three articles relating to this issue?
 * I think that I favor one for the scam and controversy, and then one for a biography of Radia. Thoughts?  Blue Rasberry  18:23, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I am for two separate articles, because the 2G spectrum scam is huge in itself, and the tapes controversy is a part of it. I am in favour of moving this page back to Nira Radia tapes controversy and another one for the 2G scam as a whole. MikeLynch (talk) 18:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * As for Nira Radia, I don't think she's notable by herself, or is she? I think it'd be better if the Nira Radia article is merged into the Nira Radia tapes controversy article. MikeLynch (talk) 18:51, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not touching Nira Radia at this time. On the AfD people are saying she is WP:1E but I think her biographical information is interesting and would be out of place in the tapes article.
 * You are correct about the need for a tapes controversy article. I will create a separate one for the scam, then rename this one.  Blue Rasberry  18:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I suggest we keep the orginal name Radia tapes controversy instead of Nira Radia tapes controversy as the title, as the former is widely known. eg . -- <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu  <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian  - 10:27, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I guess so. That would be more appropriate. MikeLynch (talk) 10:50, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ Moved to Radia tapes controversy per discussion -- <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu  <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian  - 06:38, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite
I am now editing the article to give it more structure and fairness. This is the first time I am editing this article, so I request Tinucherian to refrain from getting into an edit/revert war until I have completed. The article is badly structured, confusing, and a mess of sometimes needless links and references, and the language used in many places is far below the quality one would expect on Wikipedia. Achitnis (talk) 10:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I have placed a draft copy of the article at Radia_tapes_controversy/draft, to avoid making too many changes in a "live" article before it is approved. I have consolidated mentions of people and incidents, many of which were duplicated all over the original article to unnecessarily bulk up the article. Some references still need to be fixed, and many have to be removed (it is unnecessary to provide multiple references for every statement, only the most valid one should do).

I invite people to check out this draft, and I will replace the original article with this version if no objections are raised. An admin can then delete the draft page.

Achitnis (talk) 10:50, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I have moved the draft to your userspace since you dont want others to edit it. I would check it out and anyone can put forth suggestions here if some needs to be changed in the main article  Srikanth (Logic)  11:06, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, I didn't say that people shouldn't edit it :) By all means, they should have edited it. When I referred to edit wars earlier, I was referring to the original article, not this draft. I am working on a slightly flaky link right now, and am trying to fix the unclosed tags that are causing some text to vanish in the rendered version (they are there in the source). Achitnis (talk) 11:11, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed ! But I seriously suggest you work on the actual article itself, so that your will not lose information added by others. My concerns and objection was primarly regarding the earlier blind tagging and non-willingness to collabrate to make the article better. -- <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu  <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian  - 12:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If no one (including you) objects, I will replace the current article with my draft. Note that there are substantial changes and a lot of restructuring in my draft, so it is not possible to simply "merge" the two. Achitnis (talk) 12:18, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * May be you can fix up the reference links issues asap & replace it and then build on it. Please note that the article may be "re-edited" by others or me as time progresses -- <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu  <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian  - 12:23, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Your article read okay to me. Can you please order the list of names alphabetically / group journalists,businessman,politicians together instead of having them in a random order? Thanks.  Srikanth (Logic)  12:29, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I used the order of the original article, but it makes sense to group them logically. I still have problems fixing those 3 references, the article is really littered with references, making it really hard to debug. IAC, shall replace the article, so that someone can help fix it. Achitnis (talk) 12:40, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I have replaced the article. A quick look at the transcripts and tapes shows that the list of people involved is much longer - I recommend that we complete the list by adding the missing names. Also, I need help debugging the broken refs - I think Tinu used some tool to edit the original, so the source is kind of unreadable :) Achitnis (talk) 12:49, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Good, except that you dont consider Mani Shankar Aiyar to be a politician. Tinu would used the cite template.Let me try and see if i could help.  Srikanth (Logic)  12:59, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Politics and cricket - two of my least favourite topics ;) I wouldn't know how many goals Dravid scored, or whether MSA is a politician, or a groceryshop owner :p I guess I should read more Wikipedia ;) Achitnis (talk) 13:40, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

See, All is well :) Atul, Please understand that I don't any POV to defame Barkha & Vir in particular. At Wikipedia, we need to collaborate to make the article better -- <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000"> Tinu  <em style="font-family:Kristen ITC;color:#ff0000">Cherian  - 14:33, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Bug Fixes

 * Oops! The original article named Mani Shankar Aiyar as one of the people on the tapes, and I just copied that into the rewritten article. Turns out, he wasn't - it was Shankar Aiyar of India Today Group. Mea Culpa, now fixed Achitnis (talk) 05:41, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Cchaitu, 26 November 2010
In regards to both journalists denying, can you please post this link which states Open mag's point and which will point the reader to the alleged article? Thanks

Cchaitu (talk) 06:32, 26 November 2010 (UTC)


 * That doesn't appear to be a reliable source; if you object, please discuss it on WP:RSN. Thanks,  Chzz  ► 01:49, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Nira Radia merge
Articles for deletion/Nira Radia

This BLP is merged to here, this is the personal detail about Nira that may be required to add detail here, please consider and add as required, thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 14:05, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Nira Radia is an Indian PR consultant and lobbyist. Her phone calls which were tapped and recorded, allegedly, by the Indian Income Tax Department in 2008-09 showed her lobbying for appointment of Cabinet Ministers ex DMK, including A Raja, through journalist Barkha Dutt and DMK chief Karunanidhi's daughter Kanimozhi.

A British citizen, Radia moved from England to Surajkund, India, with her three sons after a divorce from Kutchi businessman, Janak Radia. In 2003, Dheeraj Singh, a business partner, was arrested with an accomplice for allegedly kidnapping her 18-year-old son. By 2008, Nira Radia was running a successful corporate communications enterprise in the form of Vaishnavi Corporate Communications, and operating through subsidiaries such as Neucom, Noesis Strategic Consulting Services and Vitcom Consulting. She is allegedly very close to Ratan Tata and Mukesh Ambani, among others in the corporate world.

She was subsequently involved in the 2G spectrum allotment in 2008 by lobbying for A Raja. The allotment resulted in the alleged swindling of $39bn as per BBC, in what is supposedly the biggest financial and economic crime in India till date.

Constitutionality and documentation of a scam
Two editors, user:Joyaaioxom and user:Ashlonerider, each made this change. The former did it for "NPOV and grammar" and the latter did it for grammar. user:Abc111xyz999 made the original edit.

The statement to be made could be phrased in many different ways, but I am reverting it back to abc's way because that edit removes unsourced claims about unconstitutionality and about documenting a scam. User abc's way just talks about having evidence of a scam and doing criminal activity without saying anything of the constitutionality.

Can sources be provided about the constitutionality? Also, I do not think the "scam" can be documented until a court decides that a scam happened; until then, tapes can only "evidence the planning of the 2G spectrum scam." Thoughts?  Blue Rasberry  23:21, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

No evidence against Nira Radia: CBI
On January 10, CBI official investigating the 2G scam  said in an informal conversation that the bureau has not registered an FIR against Niira Radia, as "there is no case against her". and that they didn't find enough evidence to charge her. http://www.rediff.com/news/report/no-evidence-against-nira-radia-cbi/20110110.htm

This is interesting breaking story and could well be reported in some reliable reports - Google search for No evidence against Nira Radia: CBI - Off2riorob (talk) 18:04, 10 January 2011 (UTC)