Talk:Rafael Nadal/Archive 3

I've added olympic games entry
On the career table, there wasn't any olympic games entry, so I copied the Federer's page one there and modified it to fit in here. The problem is that the format on Federer's and Nadal's career table is different, one has statistics with a subtitle below and the other one not. So I thought the best part to put them on Nadal's career entry was under the Master Cup's place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.184.66.225 (talk) 01:44, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Career statistics format
I've said the same on Roger Federer's discuss page:

This table and Roger Federer's table format is different under the Master Cup's part. One of them should be changed to make they have the same format, like every article-kind of wikipedia should do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.184.66.225 (talk) 01:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Link to the storied rivalry vs Federer taken out?
There was a link on the first pharagraph to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federer_versus_Nadal like Federer also has, now it isn't there.

I don't get the point why there are being all those changes lately, maybe it is a good time to semiprotect the article? I think that deleting such data could be considered as vandalism.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.184.66.225 (talk) 01:25, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I reverted it to the revised version of the intro I wrote yesterday. My version links to the page you listed under the "arch-rival" link.

With all the excitement and enthusiasm surrounding Nadal these days it's no surprise there have been dozens of edits per day. It'll settle down in the coming weeks, but may be good idea to semiprotect it to avoid all these annoying edits.

--Armchair info guy (talk) 02:08, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I've made an attempt to get it semi-protected here, many that will see its abatement. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 18:32, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't know if its the moment to add the #1 category
Well, I'm seeing under the photo on the article that it says maxium rank = 1, so then there should be also the "World No. 1s in Men's tennis" category bar in the bottom on the page, like on Federer's article. I put it there, the problem is that I don't know how to edit that category to add Nadal there... any help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.184.66.225 (talk) 02:29, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Per WP:CRYSTAL, we need to wait for the latest ATP Rankings are released to change the ranking on Nadal's (and also Fed's) wiki article(s). It's a bit ridiculous to change his ranking before any reliable sources have done so. Thanks. --Madchester (talk) 15:13, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

kudos to "Trip to Your Heart" for shortening the Career section
This is something I was thinking of doing myself. S/he beat me to it and I'm grateful for it. Now it's much shorter (from 70kB to 54kB) without so many needless tournament details.

For referenc, this is what user s/he wrote in the history subject line: "I don't mean to ruffle feathers here, but really....this page is getting way out of hand. every little detail does not need to be analyzed. feel free to revert if you'd like, but I stand by this."

--Armchair info guy (talk) 18:27, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The edits are very encouraging and hopefully signal an end to haphazard updates and poorly structured sections ("At...", "At..."). I feel it has been trimmed pretty well. I think now the main issues are grammar (Vilas), stock phrases ("handing Roger Federer his first defeat", "ultimately fell short"), and a lack of references. Should the Battle of the Surfaces match be included in what is essentially a section documenting his career on the tour? I probably should have put my efforts in to fixing this rather than typing this but I don't have time right now. When this is done, we get Federer's 2008 section righted, maybe? Yohan euan o4 (talk) 18:32, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately the only way you can prevent superfluous info bloat is by protecting this page, but that'd be too stringent except at highly eventful, exciting times like Rafa becoming #1. I'm new around here but my observation is that there are a group of dedicated editors who occasionally have to do some major edit work when articles bloat, like Rafa's career section. Just the way wikipedia is. --Armchair info guy (talk) 22:21, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the current pared-down 2006 and 2007 sections are too brief while at the same time there's still too much info for a single paragraph. I prefer the way 2005 reads (obviously I'm quite biased since I rewrote it), because it concisely highlights the big events and major accomplishments in several brief paragraphs. Short paragraphs are easier to quickly read than long ones. My goal is a nutshell of how the season progressed that's informative to those who know little or nothing about Rafa and quickly want to learn his career history.


 * So I suppose the main idea is to pack a good amount of imporant facts in each section without so many superfluous details. And thanks again for the straw man version without the superfluous stuff.


 * I'm only a few days old here at wikipedia but I must say this kind of collaboration is fun. Vamos to you all! --Armchair info guy (talk) 22:21, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

About the new "Career" section.
I will be clear: I don't like it at all.

This article was very good because you could notice the entire participation in all the tournaments explained all over the years. Now it is like a small line for each tournament plus some statistics mixed that does not fit at all. When someone is reading the career doesn't want to read each 2 lines "he is the 2nd bla bla after Borg", he just wants to read that, the CAREER.

Since the change, this is not anymore a good article in my opinion, moreover cause some of us worked hard before to put each detail for each tournament for each year. It was a good career section, now *forgive me for the word, but nothing else fits here* it sucks. 62.57.238.91 (talk) 19:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * There's a way to include all the details you want - create subtopic articles for each year of his career: like "Nadal_2007" or his entire career: like "Nadal_Career_Details". The link I posted cites the cricket article which does a good job of this.


 * We don't want all those details in this article because it's quite long as it is. --Armchair info guy (talk) 23:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yea sure, I can understand that all, but then why Nadal has been the only victim of this? Because I'm seeing other articles like Federer and, his career section is like the double than Nadal's old one, and it's entirely there still. I once asked to semiprotect the article, but I see I was wrong.. In my opinion, you can unsemiprotect it... You didn't add the --Performance timeline legend-- to the career statistics yet but had time to answer me 4 times, good job.

where is the "legend table" for the statistics table?
I mean the table that has on it the explanations of what is an A, xR, SF, F, QF, W, etc.

Lately, too many things have changed and some like this dissapeared. I was the one that asked to semiprotect this, but it seems that even being semiprotected, it suffers vandalism. I'm very deceived. 62.57.238.91 (talk) 19:52, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Put back the #2 ranking
under the highest career rank category in the infobox - until it is official on the 18th. WP:Crystal ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 03:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * But it is official since Nadal is guranteed to be #1 on the 18th no matter what. I say keep it as is. Armchair info guy (talk) 03:37, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * When in doubt, stick with policy. So change it back until the 18th.--HJensen, talk 06:48, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, wait until the rankings show him at the top. Franmars (talk) 09:51, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You don't get it: There is NO DOUBT. Nadal WILL BE #1 on 18 August. It's a sure event. 62.57.239.44 (talk) 11:48, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Did anybody here question that? No, so there is no need to scream at people. We "get it". There is just a policy here, which is to be followed. --HJensen, talk 12:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed, we know he will be number 1 on the 18th, why not just wait until it happens? Franmars (talk) 13:00, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Added "Rivalry with Federer" sub-section
I followed the precedent in the Pete Sampras article by adding this sub-section under the Career section. There's not much written because it's mostly to direct readers to the Federer-Nadal rivalry page. I also added the same sub-section in Roger Federer's page too. --Armchair info guy (talk) 19:54, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

To "Tennis expert" (and anyone else too)
First off, thanks for all your contributions to wikipedia over the years. I can see you've done a lot of work. I'm less than 2 weeks old as a registered editor so I'm still learning the ropes, though I've come up to speed quickly and have already contributed a good chunk of work.

Since we've both made several edits to this page in the last few days and have even undid then redid a few changes (thankfully nothing major), I feel the need to briefly address a few items:

1) your use of corporate names for a couple of 2008 tourneys like "Sony Ericcson Open" and "Rogers Cup" instead of "Miami Masters" and "Canada Masters". Frankly, I disagree with it because it's almost universal in the many articles I've read here to use the "X Masters" name. Plus the rest of the article including all the match listings and tables use it too. So I'm changing it back once again.

2) you add a space between citations when more than one is present. I've been using wikipedia for years and have never seen that, so I'm getting rid of those spaces too.

3) good call on removing Barcelona from the intro. I'll change it to winning 2 Masters on clay each of the last 4 years so all of his top-level clay titles are accounted for.

4) In the intro I'm removing reference to 6 GS finals being the most in open era since a bit too wordy to pack it all in. plus the reference tells you that. I originally added this paragraph last week sometime to highlight his rivalry with Federer.

5) which reminds me - if they're not archrivals then who is? Sure there's little or no personal animosity but everything else fits the bill.

6) good call on the overly-dramatic words in reference to the 2008 Wimby final. Hard not to, though, after experiencing that match!

--Armchair info guy (talk) 23:55, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * (1) Most tennis articles, including biographies of men and women, use the official sponsored names of tournaments. Have a look around and you'll soon see this. (2) Putting spaces between citations also is common and enhances readability.  (5) "Archrivals" is overly dramatic and, in any event, is unencyclopedic and unsourced.  Tennis expert (talk) 06:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * you're probably right about #5 for encyclopedia purposes. I still disagree about the first 2 but since you went and changed almost the entire article I'll let it go. Consistency is definitely more important than my preference. --Armchair info guy (talk) 18:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Very disapointed about this, my last words here.
Hello, maybe you are not interesed on what im going to say, but I'm someone that has being (anonymously) updating this article for a long time.

It was good until the last week when someone changed the half on it, then people changes things, adds things, take out things.

As a result, the actual article sucks. An article that was PRETTY GOOD before now IS NEEDING CLEANUP cause the edits you have made on this week. The article just sucks now. There was a lot of good info there, now its only victories and fucking records which I don't care.

As a READER of the article, I would say: reset it to how it was the last week. You DESTROYED an article.

It's not just that i'm not going to cooperate here any more (not only on this article, but on anything, when some other people can fuck up in 1 day the work of months), but I'm not also going to get any info for wikipedia anymore. Good luck on keeping destroying this site. Farewell.

00:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Btw, I paste here how the article should be, like it was: the way is Federer's one: a little paste:

'''2003

Federer challenged for the top ranking in men's tennis during 2003, finishing the year at World No. 2 just behind Andy Roddick and just ahead of Juan Carlos Ferrero.

In the first Grand Slam tournament of the year, Federer lost in the fourth round of the Australian Open to David Nalbandian. He then won two hard court tournaments in Marseille and Dubai before being upset in early round matches at the Tennis Masters Series (TMS) tournaments in Indian Wells, California and Key Biscayne, Florida.

On clay, Federer won the tournament in Munich, was the runner-up at the TMS tournament in Rome, and lost in the third round of the TMS tournament in Hamburg. Although Federer was seeded fifth at the French Open, he lost to Luis Horna in the first round.

Federer won both of the grass court tournaments he played. He defeated Nicolas Kiefer in the final of the tournament in Halle before winning his first Grand Slam singles title at Wimbledon. He defeated Roddick in the semifinals and Mark Philippoussis in the final and lost only one set during the tournament, to Mardy Fish in the third round.

During the North American summer hard court season, Federer lost to Roddick in the semifinals of the TMS tournament in Montreal and to Nalbandian in the second round of the TMS tournament in Cincinnati. At the US Open, Nalbandian again defeated Federer, this time in the fourth round.

During the autumn, Federer played four consecutive indoor tournaments in Europe. He won the tournament in Vienna but failed to reach the finals of the tournament in Basel and the TMS tournaments in Madrid and Paris.

To end the year, Federer won the Tennis Masters Cup in Houston. As the third-seeded player, he defeated Andre Agassi, Nalbandian, and Ferrero during the round robin phase before beating top-seeded Roddick in the semifinals and Agassi in the final.

(All results in 2003)[25]

[edit] 2004 Federer at the 2004 Summer Olympics. Federer at the 2004 Summer Olympics.

Federer had one of the most dominating and successful years in the open era of modern men's tennis.[26] He won three of the four Grand Slam singles tournaments, did not lose a match to anyone ranked in the top ten, won every final he reached, and was named the ITF Tennis World Champion.[27] His win–loss record for the year was 74–6 with 11 titles.

Federer won his first Australian Open singles title by defeating Marat Safin in the final in straight sets. This win helped him succeed Andy Roddick as the World No. 1, a ranking that he has kept ever since. He successfully defended his Wimbledon singles title by defeating Roddick in the final and won his first US Open singles title by defeating Lleyton Hewitt in the final. Federer was the top-seeded player at the Athens Olympics but lost in the second round to Tomáš Berdych 4–6, 7–5, 7–5. Federer finished the year by taking the Tennis Masters Cup in Houston for the second consecutive year, defeating Hewitt in the final. Federer's only loss at a Grand Slam tournament was at the French Open, where he lost to former World No. 1 and 3-time French Open champion Gustavo Kuerten in straight sets.

Federer did not have a coach during 2004, relying instead on his fitness trainer Pierre Paganini, physiotherapist Pavel Kovac, and a management team composed of his parents, his girlfriend and manager Mirka Vavrinec, and a few friends.[28]

(All results in 2004)[29]

[edit] 2005 Federer in Cincinnati during the 2005 US Open Series. Federer in Cincinnati during the 2005 US Open Series.

To begin the year, Federer hired former Australian tennis player Tony Roche to coach him on a limited basis.[30] He then reached the Australian Open semifinals before falling to eventual winner Marat Safin in a five-set night match that lasted more than four hours, 5–7, 6–4, 5–7, 7–6(6), 9–7.[31] He rebounded to win the year's first two ATP Masters Series (AMS) titles: Indian Wells (by defeating Lleyton Hewitt of Australia in straight sets) and Miami (by defeating Rafael Nadal of Spain in five sets after being down two sets to love). He won his third Hamburg clay court title in May by defeating Richard Gasquet, to whom he had earlier lost in Monte Carlo. He then entered the French Open as one of the favorites, but lost in the semifinals in four sets to eventual winner Nadal.

Federer successfully defended his Wimbledon title, winning for the third consecutive year by defeating Andy Roddick in a rematch of the previous year's final. Federer also defeated Roddick in Cincinnati to take his fourth AMS title of the year (and sweep all the American AMS events) and become the first player in AMS history to win four titles in one season.[32] He then dropped only two sets en route to his second consecutive US Open title, defeating Andre Agassi in four sets in the final. He became the first man in the open era to win Wimbledon and the US Open back-to-back in consecutive years (2004 and 2005). He failed to defend his Tennis Masters Cup title, however, losing to David Nalbandian of Argentina in a four-and-a-half hour, five-set match (He was playing with an injury to his ankle).[33] Had he won the match, he would have finished the year 82–3, tying John McEnroe's 1984 record for the highest yearly winning percentage in the open era. (All results in 2005)[34]

[edit] 2006 Federer playing in Basel at the Swiss Indoors, 2006. Federer playing in Basel at the Swiss Indoors, 2006.

Federer won three of the four Grand Slam singles tournaments and ended the year ranked number one, with his points ranking several thousand points greater than that of his nearest competitor, Rafael Nadal.[35] Federer won the year's first Grand Slam tournament, the Australian Open, by defeating Cypriot Marcos Baghdatis. In March, Federer successfully defended his titles at the Indian Wells and Miami Masters, and became the first player ever to win the Indian Wells-Miami double in consecutive years. Federer then started the clay-court season by reaching the final of the ATP Masters Series (AMS) event at Monte Carlo losing in four sets to Rafael Nadal. He then reached a consecutive AMS final, along with Nadal, at the Rome Masters where it seemed as though Federer would finally defeat his rival on clay; however, Nadal won the epic five-set match, which lasted five hours, in the decisive tiebreak after saving two match points.[36] Federer chose not to defend his title at the Hamburg Masters, where he had won in the previous two years. At the French Open, Federer lost in the final to defending champion Nadal in four sets. Had he won the French Open, he would have completed a career Grand Slam and become the first man since Rod Laver to hold all four Grand Slam singles titles at the same time. Although the clay Grand Slam title eluded him, he became one of only two then-active players who had reached the finals of all four Grand Slam singles tournaments, the other being Andre Agassi.[37]

Federer entered Wimbledon as the top seed and reached the final without dropping a set. There, Federer beat Nadal in four sets to win the championship. This was Federer's fourth consecutive Wimbledon title. Federer then started his North American tour and won the 2006 Rogers Cup in Toronto, defeating Richard Gasquet of France in the final. In the year's last Grand Slam tournament, the US Open, he defeated American Andy Roddick in four sets for his third consecutive title at the Flushing Meadows. During the open era, 2006 is the only year in which same man (Federer) and woman (Justin Henin) reached the finals of all four Grand Slams. At the year-ending Tennis Masters Cup at Shanghai, Federer defeated defending champion David Nalbandian in one of his three round robin matches and Nadal in a semifinal. Federer then defeated American James Blake 6–0, 6–3, 6–4 in the final to win his third Masters Cup title. In 2006, Federer lost to only two players: Nadal in the French Open, Rome, Monte Carlo, and Dubai finals; and Andy Murray in the second round of the Cincinnati Masters. The Cincinnati loss to Murray was Federer's only straight-sets loss of the year and the only tournament out of 17 (Davis Cup excluded) in which he did not reach the final. (All results in 2006)[38]

[edit] 2007 Roger Federer at the 2007 Cincinnati Masters. Roger Federer at the 2007 Cincinnati Masters.

Federer won his third Australian Open and tenth Grand Slam singles title when he, as defending champion, won the tournament without dropping a set, defeating Fernando González of Chile in the final. He was the first man since Bjorn Borg in 1980 to win a Grand Slam singles tournament without losing a set.[39] His winning streak of 41 consecutive matches ended when he lost to Guillermo Cañas in the second round of the Pacific Life Open in Indian Wells, California, after winning this tournament three consecutive years. At the Sony Ericsson Open in Miami, Florida, Federer again lost to Cañas, this time in the fourth round in three sets. He was awarded four ATP Awards during a ceremony at the tournament, making him the first player to receive four awards during the same year.[40] [41]

Federer started his clay-court season by reaching his second consecutive final of the Monte Carlo Masters. As in 2006, he lost to second seeded Rafael Nadal. Federer lost in the third round of the Internazionali d'Italia in Rome to Filippo Volandri.[42] This defeat meant he had gone four tournaments without a title, his longest stretch since becoming World No. 1.[42] On May 20, 2007, however, Federer defeated Nadal on clay for the first time, winning the Hamburg Masters tournament, and ending Nadal's record of 81 consecutive match wins on clay.[43] At the French Open, Federer reached the final for the second consecutive year but lost to Nadal for the third consecutive time. The day after the final, Federer announced that he was withdrawing from the Gerry Weber Open in Halle, which he had won the last four years. He cited fatigue and fear of getting an injury.[44] He therefore entered Wimbledon for the first time without having played a warm-up grass-court tournament. Despite this, Federer once again defeated Nadal in the final, however Nadal was able to push Federer into a fifth set, with his last five-set match at Wimbledon coming from 2001 where he beat Pete Sampras. With the win over Nadal, Federer tied Björn Borg's record of five Wimbledons in a row.

Federer won the Cincinnati Masters title for the second time, beating James Blake in the final, to collect his 50th career singles title, his 14th ATP Masters Series title, and the 2007 US Open Series points race.

In the US Open final, Federer beat third seed Novak Djokovic. It was Federer's 12th Grand Slam title, tying Roy Emerson. As champion of the US Open Series points race, Federer received a bonus of $1 million, in addition to the $1.4 million prize for winning the US Open singles title.[45]

Federer entered the year-ending Tennis Masters Cup where he lost his first round robin match to the 2007 Australian Open runner-up, Fernando González, 3–6 7–6(1) 7–5. This marked the first time a player had defeated Federer in the round robin of the Tennis Masters Cup and González's first win against Federer. Federer went on to defeat Rafael Nadal 6–4, 6–1 in the semifinals and David Ferrer in the finals 6–2, 6–3, 6–2.

On November 19, 2007, in an exhibition match in Seoul between players recognized as among the greatest ever, Federer defeated former World No. 1 Pete Sampras 6–4, 6–3. This was the first of three exhibitions the two played in Asia. "I feel pretty good," Sampras told Korean television after the match. "I made it competitive, which was my goal. Obviously Roger is the best player in the world and I retired five years ago. I am grateful that he invited me." Federer was equally happy with the workout: "Pete was one of my idols growing up and it's great to play him. It wasn't easy for me, it wasn't easy for him as he's been retired five years. I am number one and everyone expects me to win."[46] Two days later, Sampras again lost to Federer 7–6, 7–6. However, Sampras won the last match of the series 7–6(6), 6–4, though his stated goal was to just win a set. (All results in 2007)[47]

[edit] 2008

2008 would prove to be the most disappointing year on record so far for Federer, as, one by one, he lost his Australian Open title, Wimbledon title and finally, his No. 1 position which he had held for a record 238 weeks. At the Australian Open, Federer failed to defend his title, losing in the semifinals to eventual champion Novak Djokovic 7–5, 6–3, 7–6(5). This ended his record string of Grand Slam final appearances at ten, though his streak of 15 Grand Slam semifinals was maintained. It was the first time that Federer had lost in straight sets in a Grand Slam singles match since he lost 6–4, 6–4, 6–4 to Gustavo Kuerten in the third round of the 2004 French Open. His last straight-sets loss at a hard court Grand Slam tournament was even further back, when he lost in the fourth round of the 2002 US Open to Max Mirnyi, 6–3, 7–6(5), 6–4.

Federer then returned to the Dubai Tennis Championships, where he was seeded first and was the defending champion. However, Federer lost to Andy Murray in the first round. Of the previous five Dubai tournaments, Federer had won four and reached the final of the other. In March, he claimed that he had recently been diagnosed with mononucleosis, and that he may have suffered from it since December 2007. Federer also had an illness related to food poisoning prior to the start of the Australian Open. He noted, however, that he was now "medically cleared to compete."[48]

Federer won his third exhibition match out of four against former World No. 1 and fourteen-time Grand Slam singles titlist Pete Sampras in Madison Square Garden in New York City. Federer won 6–3, 6–7, 7–6.[49]

At the Pacific Life Open in Indian Wells, California, the first Tennis Masters Series event of the year, Federer lost in the semifinals to American Mardy Fish for the first time, 6–3, 6–2, thus ending his 41-match winning streak against American players dating back to August 2003.[50] Federer's next tournament was the Sony Ericsson Open in Key Biscayne, Florida, where he lost in the quarterfinals to American Andy Roddick 7–6, 4–6, 6–3. Roddick's last win against him on the ATP tour came in 2003.

Federer began the clay court season at the Estoril Open in Portugal, which was his first optional clay-court tournament since Gstaad in 2004[citation needed] and his first tournament with coach Jose Higueras.[51] Federer won his first tournament of the year when Nikolay Davydenko retired from the final while trailing 7–6, 1–2 with a leg ligament strain. With 54 titles, Federer is No. 9 on the open era career singles titles list.[52]

As of April 2008, Federer and James Blake are the only members of the top ten never to have retired during a match.[53]

At the Monte Carlo Masters, Federer lost to three-time defending champion Rafael Nadal 7–5, 7–5. Federer made 44 unforced errors, lost a 4–0 lead in the second set, and fell to 1–7 against Nadal on clay courts.[54]

At the Tennis Masters Series Internazionali d'Italia in Rome, Federer lost in the quarterfinals to Radek Stepanek 7–6(4), 7–6(7).

Federer was the defending champion at the Masters Series Hamburg and won his first four matches in straight sets to set up a repeat of the previous year's final against Nadal. In the first set of the final, Federer built a 5–1 lead in the first set and served for the set twice. However, Nadal won six consecutive games to win the set 7–5. Nadal again broke Federer's serve in the opening game of the second set, but Federer broke back and won the second set 7–6(3). Nadal then won the third set 6–3 and the tournament.

At the French Open, Federer was beaten by Nadal in the final 6–1, 6–3, 6–0. The last time Federer had lost a set 6-0 was the first round match in 1999 against Byron Black at the Queen's Club Championships in London.[55] This was also the fourth consecutive year that Federer and Nadal met at the French Open, with Federer losing his third consecutive final to Nadal as well as their semifinal match in 2005.

Federer bounced back from this defeat by winning the Gerry Weber Open in Halle, Germany without dropping a set or a service game. This was Federer's second title of the year, 55th overall career title, and the fifth time he has won this event. With this result, he tied Pete Sampras's record for most titles on grass in the open era with 10.[56]

At Wimbledon, Federer reached his 17th consecutive Grand Slam singles semifinal and his 16th Grand Slam final, tying him with Bjorn Borg for fourth most in history. In the final, he once again played World No. 2 Rafael Nadal. A victory for Federer would have been his sixth consecutive Wimbledon singles title, breaking Borg's modern era record, and equalling the all-time record held since 1886 by Willie Renshaw. Federer saved two championship points in the fourth set tiebreak but eventually lost the match 6–4, 6–4, 6–7(5), 6–7(8), 9–7. The rain-delayed match ended in near darkness after 4 hours, 48 minutes of play, making it the longest (in terms of elapsed time) men's final in Wimbledon recorded history, and 7 hours, 15 minutes after its scheduled start. The defeat also brought to an end Federer's 65 match winning streak on grass. John McEnroe described the match as "The greatest match I've ever seen."[57] [58] Despite the loss, Federer retained his world number one ranking.

Federer's problems did not alleviate in the short-term. At the Rogers Cup in Toronto, Canada, Federer received a first round bye and then lost in the second round to Gilles Simon, before losing at the Cincinnati Masters (where he was defending champion) to Ivo Karlovic for the first time in seven matches.[59] Federer will lose his number one singles ranking for the first time in four and half years to Rafael Nadal on August 18, 2008.''' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.57.239.247 (talk) 00:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Equipment
Nadal uses a Babolat AeroPro Drive racquet without the newly added cortex system. The cortex you see on his racquet is painted on and can clearly be seen as such in high resolution photographs. This model's handle is (L2 grip= 4 1/4)) with no replacement grip, instead Nadal wraps 3 VS over grips, and the racquet strung between 53 and 55 pounds with Babolat Duralast in 15L gauge. Although he is said to use Pro Hurricane Tour, this is not true.  His string is marked as Pro Hurricane Nadal and looks to all the world like Babolat Duralast. His clothing sponsor is Nike and he was known for his unconventional wear, turning up in sleeveless tops and Capri pants in a variety of colours.  However in Summer of 2008, he started wearing extended shorts with his sleeveless tops.  In 2009 he will start wearing sleeves. He also wears the Nike Air Max Breathe Cage II shoes which have been customized for him with the famous "Vamos Rafa" slogan written on the back of them. Currently, his shoes display his nickname "Rafa" on one shoe and a logo specifically designed by Nike featuring a stylistic bull head on the other.

KerryJamesBalden (talk) 03:02, 11 August 2008 (UTC)KerryJamesBalden

Sorry, I don't want to shorten what I've written. I didn't know what this would do. I added more detail and updated the equipment section. Hope this helps! —Preceding unsigned comment added by KerryJamesBalden (talk • contribs) 03:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, is this how you want to change that section? If you're going to write about his fashion in 2009, you'll probably need a reliable source for that so people won't constantly fight over that. And the "shorts" he has been wearing this summer seem a little tight to just be called "extended shorts."  That makes it seems like he was just wearing baggy shorts like NBA basketball players do.  And where is all this racquet information coming from?  It might be obvious and commonly known among Rafa fans, but it should be documented and cited from a site.  I mean, if there's no references for sentences like "Although he is said to use Pro Hurricane Tour, this is not true. His string is marked as Pro Hurricane Nadal and looks to all the world like Babolat Duralast," I would rather not include that "information" and keep the paragraph short to avoid spreading opinions or unverified information.  That sentences sounds like a "crazy Babolat conspiracy of month" or something.  Cheers,  on  camera (t)  00:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

This is all about 2006?
'''"2006

After missing the Australian Open due to his foot injury, Nadal won his first title of the year by handing Roger Federer his first defeat of the season in Dubai. He then completed an undefeated clay-court season by defending all of his titles, including winning the French Open for the second consecutive year and once again keeping a Career Slam away from Federer. His first-round victory at the French Open allowed him to break Guillermo Vilas's record of consecutive victories on the clay surface.[22] Nadal also made a surprise run to the Wimbledon final, falling to Federer in four sets. Nadal was not expected to make the transition from clay to grass so successfully for at least a few more years at the time.[23] [24] The second half of Nadal's year wasn't as successful as the previous year had been, something that Nadal attributed to mental and physical exhaustion"'''

Dudes, do you really hate Nadal? It seems so.. This is becoming one of the worst articles on the entire wikipedia, when it was a very good one. If I want anything about nadal no 2006.. THERE'S NO FUCKING INFO THERE, Not a single result, not a single position at a tournament, this article become really bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.184.39.98 (talk • contribs)

CHANGING THE ATP MASTERS NAMES NOW?
EDIT: I see that you've added a new column now "tournament name" and the other tournament city. Well this would be good if also "Canada", "Monte Carlo", etc, were links to the torunaments, not only "Rogers Cup", etc.

To people that doesn't understand so much of Tennis they would HARDLY understand it how it is right now..

BTW: Im saying the "+" (less the +) at the end of the comment and it doesnt appear my signature... 62.57.197.234 (talk) 17:06, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

CHANGE 2 things please
on the "Tournament Locations"

Montreal -> Montreal, Canada

Toronto -> Toronto, Canada

62.57.197.234 (talk) 17:08, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok, thank you. Please change another thing:


 * "Sony Ericsson Open 	Key Biscayne, Florida"


 * Even I, Having followed the tennis last 4 years, I don't know that masters are we talking about. Indian Wells? Cincinnati? No Idea, really... please change it and put it like it should be (like Paris TMS, Madrid TMS, Cincinnati TMS, Canada TMS)


 * That would be the info people wants, I don't want to know if its sony ericsson open or what, for me its a CITY TMS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.57.197.234 (talk) 21:46, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, that's why there's now a column entitled "Tournament location." You can find a tournament by either it's official name or its location.  Sounds very simple to me.  Tennis expert (talk) 22:10, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not complete. On "key Biscarne", it should also say MIAMI, since its the location. Complete it, please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.184.71.124 (talk) 18:13, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

AGAIN: where is the statistics table legend?
where is the "legend table" for the statistics table?

I mean the table that has on it the explanations of what is an A, xR, SF, F, QF, W, etc.

I posted this on discussion like 2 weeks ago and still no modification.

PLEASE, UN-SEMIPROTEC IT. I've asked to semiprotect it but since it is semiprotected you are not helping to improve it but deleting legends like this, changing info that was good and now its very bad explained and unclean, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.184.71.124 (talk) 18:16, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * just to make you notice this UPDATE IT!
 * " 81.184.38.28 (talk) 14:09, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * " 81.184.38.28 (talk) 14:09, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * " 81.184.38.28 (talk) 14:09, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * " 81.184.38.28 (talk) 14:09, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Paris 2007 was played on hard
So the finals section is wrong in him reaching a final on carpet. Link: http://www.atptennis.com/5/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity.asp?query=Singles&year=0&player=N409&selTournament=352&prevtrnnum=0 12:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC)82.168.188.69 (talk)

UNSEMIPROTECT THE ARTICLE.
When Federer or Djokovic won their medals, it took 0,001s to have it updated here. Nadal won it like an hour ago and no update. Let anonnymous people like me update it because registered users the only that they did is to fuck up the article and mantain in outdated like just now. 62.57.9.173 (talk) 12:36, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a news service.--HJensen, talk 11:47, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia but this article sucks since its semiprotected and the registered people modifying it are destroying it (maybe you are one of those). I've told 3 times on this discussion topic to PUT THE STATISTICS RESULTS TABLE LEGEND (the one that shows whats RR,SF,F,W,A,etc.) and you ignore me. if this is an encyclopedia please start by completing it like im telling you. Wikitestor (talk) 16:53, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Please remain WP:CIVIL. Don't bite at other people, or throw around accusations and orders. Thanks.--HJensen, talk 23:08, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

number 2 mention
This edit http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rafael_Nadal&diff=232706639&oldid=232691339 was taken off by one of the ips. It should be undone or put somewhere else - for this is also notable - record weeks at number 2 I don't even see it in the article - at least not in the 2008 section, or the intro paragraph ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 17:13, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

nickname "Gladiator"
I've added it because here, on Spain, everyone calls him like that. 81.184.39.184 (talk) 18:50, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Why did u put the comments back?
They were my comments and all of them were solved, its a long spam there total unnecesay, please explain me why. Wikitestor (talk) 23:32, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Because on Wikipedia, everything is archived, not deleted. The reason being that others can learn from previous discussions and comments. Noone would learn anything if we deleted everything that is resolved. Alternatively, one can (only if it is one's own text), use the "strike" option on one's text when issues have been resolved. Then one is signalling that things are done, but the interested can still see what a certain discussion was all about. Others can just skip it. Cheers.--HJensen, talk 09:24, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I understand it now. But the point is that by error I paste here on the discussion a very long article of federer (all history from 2003 to 2008...) and its like the half of the discussion page right now... Wikitestor (talk) 15:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * In that case, I agree with Wikitestor that it should be deleted. It is in its proper place now on the Federer article. So it does not belong here. ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 04:24, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikitestor may delete his own comments but not those of myself or other third parties. Aside from that, it's far better to archive things on this page than delete them.  Tennis expert (talk) 04:55, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a good point Tennis Expert. Notice the italicized own Expert included. ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 22:33, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well i'm not deleting them, but if someone wants to you can do it, I agree on that. I don't want to enter on any discussion for such a thing...81.184.39.120 (talk) 21:05, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

"the spaniard" nickname
Since its not representative (it could be Fernando Alonso, Pau Gasol, etc.) i've taken it out. Wikitestor (talk) 15:35, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

background of the W on singles olympics
I think it should be color gold instead of green, sinces its a different kind of tournament, and Djokovic has the bronze colour on it. I've changed it for now, tell me what you think about it. 81.184.70.242 (talk) 22:47, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I added the bronze colouring to the Djokovic article to differentiate it from the other tournaments - although Djokovic was beaten in the semis, his tournament continued and he won something, a situation that's unique in tennis tournaments. Although the gold draws attention to the fact that he won a medal, I don't think that it's necessary. Yohan euan o4 (talk) 11:02, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Stop changing the name to the ATP Masters Miami & Cincinnatti
They are called sony ericsson and such ok, link to them, but they are the "ATP Master Series Miami" and "ATP Master Series Cincinnatti", not "ATP Master Series Key Biscarne, Florida". Stop changing the tournaments names, this is a encyclopedia not some kind of site to promote sony, ericsson or key biscarne at all. Wikitestor (talk) 00:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No, they are not named that, and you have cited no source for your position. They are the "Sony Ericsson Open" (in Key Biscayne, Florida) and the "Western & Southern Financial Group Masters" (in Cincinnati, Ohio).  Whether you personally like those names is irrelevant, precisely because this is an encyclopedia.  Tennis expert (talk) 07:31, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. See ATP's Masters Page. --HJensen, talk 11:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * They're also called "Miami Masters", etc. If you don't like it, go Federer article and change it there also, stop putting those names here and letting the normal "Miami, Cincinnati, Madrid, Paris, etc." names there. I don't know why this article can be as simple as that one..81.184.39.120 (talk) 21:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm taking the "el toro (the bull)" nickname off again
He is not called EL TORO on Spain, so this does not belong here. If he's called The Bull somewhere, put "The Bull", but not el toro cause this nickname is not related to Spain, like you do with "The King of Clay", because here hes not named "El rey de la tierra". 81.184.39.120 (talk) 21:09, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

No offense, but I am spanish, I am a fan of Nadal, and I've never heard the "bull" or "toro" reference anywhere--Jaimevelasco (talk) 19:19, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I've said that im spanish and HES NOT CALLED EL TORO here. I don't know why are ya saying the opposite I said o.O 81.184.38.192 (talk) 14:06, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

what does "纳豆" mean?
I tried 2 translation pages into english and both return "Natto". --Armchair info guy (talk) 19:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah please delete it or put the english translation at side. 81.184.39.128 (talk) 20:52, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

We need a lock
I guess a lock is needed for this article ASAP...Some people just don't get itYosef1987 (talk) 20:32, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Check Federer and see how now the both articles look a lot more equal. If you want the strange names on the trophys, please go Federer article and put them here like u want them, and THEN, u put Nadal's ones like that. Nadal has not to have the "key Biscarne" and such things while Federer article has just "miami" in most places, put that in ALL tennist or dont put it on anyone. Otherwise, shut up.81.184.39.128 (talk) 20:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I believe there is a misunderstanding going on, Honestly I have no clue what you are talking about. And please be civil WP:CIV, I didn't offend anyone

It is just the article was getting really bad and I dunno how the lock things work and the kinds so I just suggested choosing the right one till the article clean-up is done. Hope I am clear now.

I just realized your are not logged in...anyway as a small example if you ever read this...one of the things I meant was something like this one: what does "纳豆" mean? Yosef1987 (talk) 12:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know if 1 or 2 people answerered over me so I've no idea who said anything. 62.57.236.208 (talk) 16:02, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Only one signature, that's me... Yosef1987 (talk) 17:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ye I guessed that but sometimes the dude does not sign and still someone didnt sign for him so it makes confusion, since u used 3 paragraphs... Im with you with the "纳豆". This doesnt belong here, but im gonna tell you something which you may already known (not sure for how long you've been on this article).

This article was much better before. It was clear, well-explained and the "miami" and so names even on years career description. now they locked it and they changed everything, like names to pacific live open, etc. Since then, the cleanup mark is there because you just have to read the career to see one of the worst wikipedia redacted articles. This article was good but has been destroyed silently on the last month. 62.57.236.208 (talk) 20:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Tennis Project
Is it part of the tennis project to make a standardized player article style?

If not I'd participate in helping to if that would help the tennis articles Yosef1987 (talk) 12:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes some kind of style would be good cause if you look Federer's article he has a well explained career for each year, simple names like "miami", and everything clear. Then you look Nadal's one and you find a bad-explained career, only the minium details for each year, no results and the f***ing records each 2 lineas, and everything with publicity names like "pacific live open" "key biscarne" instead of miami, etc. If you want it, put that on every tennist article, not let Federer's one simple and Nadal's one like that. 62.57.236.208 (talk) 16:05, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't want names like "Pacific Live Open", what I am saying is to make a standard style, and no need to keep mentioning Federer vs Nadal article :S:S The rivalry is not here on Wikipedia, I am not taking sides and I want a NPOV good articles that's all. Nikolay Davydenko has a good year by year format, anyone agrees? Yosef1987 (talk) 17:13, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't agree. Davydenko stile doesnt explain so much, and remember this is an encyclopedia.. not a resume article :P. 62.57.236.208 (talk) 20:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

You have a good point, but my thought it would be easier to track a player's career history Yosef1987 (talk) 21:09, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Check Andre Agassi, Steffi Graf, Pete Sampras, Navratilova, etc... articles. Theyre WELL redacted and all info explained. That is how this should be. 62.57.212.101 (talk) 20:37, 26 August 2008 (UTC) edit:typo

Tennisexpert, discuss here about the problem.
There are 2 problems here:

-1st) You want to use names like "pacific open, rogers cup" instead of "master series miami, master series indian wells"... -2nd) You want to put "Key Biscarne, Florida" on the MASTER SERIES MIAMI.

Those are the 2 problems. You suddently (from like 2 weeks ago) changed the normal names to those, because it seems you wanted to. if anyone is coming to the article to learn something, if he doesn't know what sony ericsson open, etc. names mean, he wont understand anything. Otherwise, if he finds "Miami master series", he will understand it at first.

About the second problem, as far I am aware, the OFFICIAL "Master Series Miami" is called "Sony Ericsson Open". I don't know why are you using the key biscarne thing instead of Miami, cause if someone read this:

13 may - Sony Ericsson Open - Key Biscarne - federer, etc.

If he doesn't know the name of the Miami Master Series, THERE IS NO REFERENCE TO IT. I'm not accepting a wikipedia without the official master series types, and I am sure 99% of the people either). The Key Biscarne thing is unnaceptable and unrelated. (if you like that then go to Barcelona tournaments and put Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain, UE; please, its the equivalent of key biscarne, florida, u.s.

What I mean is that if a Miami Master Series win must be show in a table, it may appear "pacific life open", okay, but not ONLY that, the Miami M.S reference MUST appear also. 62.57.212.101 (talk) 20:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is about verifiable facts. One may have an opinion about what a proper name for these tournaments are. But on ATP's Masters Page (a source that can be used to verify the names), one sees that the names of the tournaments indeed are, e.g, Sony Ericsson Open, MIAMI (nothing about Key Biscane there) etc. Maybe we could use this as a source?--HJensen, talk 20:29, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've said I know its called Sony Ericsson Open and yes, I accept that to be on the table, of course. NOW, the key biscarne thing doesnt belong there at all, and there MUST APPEAR the "Miami" name since, after all, its the "Master Series Miami" (as sourced on the page.). Maybe some format like this on an entry:


 * .#DATE - Sony Ericsson Open (MS Miami) - #SURFACE - etc.


 * I don't know but I think the s.e.open and the miami things MUST appear, and the "Key Biscarne, Florida, U.S" things not because I told you, if you want to put that, you would have to put 6 names to the Barcelona one (I live 10mins away of the court actually)... 62.57.212.101 (talk) 20:39, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way: I'm talking about the entire career table. Because for the Grand Slam tables, only "French Open, Wimbledon, etc." should appear (LIKE NOW), and for the Master Series Finals Table, it should appear only "Miami, Indian Wells, etc." the pacific live open and such should appear on career there is no point on putting 'em on the ATP MASTERS WIN/LOSES TABLE. 62.57.212.101 (talk) 20:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

(1) The fact is that the Sony Ericsson Open is contested at a tennis complex located in Key Biscayne, Florida, which is not a part of Miami, Florida. So, regardless of how the Sony Ericsson Open is marketed, the tournament is not held in Miami. See the relevant Wikipedia articles for Sony Ericsson Open; Key Biscayne, Florida; and Miami Florida and this website. This is an encyclopedia; therefore, we should be concerned about facts, and your analogy to "Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain" is inapplicable. (2) The ATP Masters Series table should include the official names of the tournaments along with their locations in separate columns, for the same reason that the Career table should include both of those columns. There is no logical reason to distinguish the two tables. If you have a problem with knowing that the Pacific Life Open is held in Indian Wells, California, all you have to do is sort the table by location. Couldn't be simpler, really. Tennis expert (talk) 04:54, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Couldn't one argue that one should use the name that is most recognizable? I understand the editor's concern about the Miami tournament. This is known as such (as has been for a long time), so I am wondering whether one can actully ignore how it is marketed? (The now defunct ATP topurnament "Copenhagen Open" was not held in Copenhagen, but in the city of Frederiksberg, yet marketed as being held in Copenhagen.)--HJensen, talk 06:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Addendum In terms of verifiable facts one also get the inconsistency as one reads that Nadal lost the Sony Ericsson Open Final in 2005. That is factually wrong. He lost the Nasdaq 100 finals. How is that to be resolved? Also, Do we go back every time a new sponsor takes over an rename earlier year's tournaments? That would seem as a strange route to follow (and inconsistent with WP:V). --HJensen, talk 06:33, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, we do. This is why we have separate columns for tournament names and tournament locations, why we make tables sortable, and why we put small numbers next to the tournament names to indicate how many times the player won or was runner-up.  See, e.g., Lindsay Davenport and Arantxa Sanchez Vicario.  Tennis expert (talk) 19:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey everyone, check this out, there is a COMMERCIAL name and a Tournament name, we should go with the Tournament name, like Madrid Masters NOT Mutua Madrileña Masters Madrid...I guess commercial names are used because a lazy person finds it easier to link it to the tournament page Yosef1987 (talk) 09:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Lazy? Link to tournament page?  I am not and do not.  Where can we find these tournament names?  (Wikipedia links are not acceptable sources.)  Tennis expert (talk) 19:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I would like to say two things. (1) AMS Miami is colloquially known as Key Biscane. It was a name that many tennis commentators and tennis players in the past used as reference to the 5th Slam. I'm too lazy to look up some blogs where it is still used like that. However, my opinion is that colloquial names should not be used. (2) Don't use commercial names, because in order to be accurate we need to track back all the commercial names of the past. Also, the ATP website doesn't list the commercial names in a players match record and I see no need to do so here. However, the proponents of Masters Series Miami should realise that next year the Masters Series won't be called Masters Series anymore, but 1000s or something vague like that. What is your plan to resolve that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by IlyazNasrullah (talk • contribs) 09:40, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It is a fact that the Sony Ericsson Open is held in Key Biscayne, Florida. It is not a colloquialism.  Tennis expert (talk) 19:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

We need this to be settled down, how does it work here??? An administrator? Or what? The rational mind says we should go with normal names (NOT sponsors) Yosef1987 (talk) 10:54, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

To make IlyazNasrullah's point stand out: here Yosef1987 (talk) 10:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

ALSO as another small example: ''...The event was initially known as the Lipton International Players Championships. In 2000 there was a change of title sponsor and the event was renamed the Ericsson Open. In 2002, the event became known as the NASDAQ-100 Open. In 2007, the tournament was renamed the Sony Ericsson Open in a deal where the company will pay $20 million over the next four years.'' ... IT IS SETTLED I guess, no more sponsors' names Yosef1987 (talk) 11:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject_Tennis/Article_Guidelines Yosef1987 (talk) 11:13, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It does not take an administrator to solve these things. Editors should calmly try to reach a consensus. As I have tried to explain, on wikipedia we rely on verifiability. Not what an editor feels is right. So a) you are not making a good argument, referring to the "rational mind". Two rational minds may have different opinions. b) You cannot use other wikipedia articles as sources. Definitely not to "settle" anything. Let this be discussed calmly (bolding text is btw considered shouting and is discouraged in discussions). I would think that the tennis project page would be the natural place. The link you provide was drafted over a year ago. As of this writing I don't know when the naming convemtions were last discussed. Let's find out together. --HJensen, talk 13:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok I'm seeing ev1 but tennisexpert thinks like me, but anyways, he went to Nadal's and Federer's articles hours ago and put the key biscane thing again there, I'm reverting it for the 10th~ time. I would use "Miami masters" only, because as people say here, sony ericsson open is called in 2007, not others years... and please, talk on consenssus before turning it back again cause you're alone on that position. And btw, excuse me ev1, but while this is not solved im taking war by my hand and undoing it everytime hes changing it again. I hope we all meet a consensus.62.57.212.101 (talk) 13:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You can't deduce like this, as this is a discussion held in a confined space (there could be people disagreeing with you that do not watch the Nadal page). This should be definitely be a discussion held at another place. Another thing, it took me a while to figure out what ev1 meant. Not to sound like an old fart, but it is encouraged on Wikipedia to write words in full; also to avoid boldface. The whole discussion here looks like some teenagers screaming. :-) In any case, I definitely think this page is the wrong place to discuss these matters, as it is an issue pertaining to all tennis bios. --HJensen, talk 13:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No, 62.57.212.101, I don't think like you. And I have no idea what "ev1" means.  Tennis expert (talk) 19:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * reply to HJensen: sorry didn't know about the bold thing, anyway I agree to take this someplace else, but for what's it worth, here is a good reference: http://masters-series.com/ sponsors change, names do not, each tournament's name is there under each box Yosef1987 (talk) 14:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No problems at all. Here is where the discussion can continue.--HJensen, talk 16:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion2: the changes from MS -> 1000 series & 500 series
This has nothing to do with the upper discussion so I open another thread. The point is that on 2009 like the entire system is going to change, and there will be 2 new categories replacing the master series and the internationald gold series: the 1000 series (mostly all MS) and the 500s series (mostly all gold ints. + hamburgo).

My point is: to have a break here. We can't mix old Master Series with new 1000s, cause for example Hamburgo was a MS when Federer and Nadal won it, and it will be a 500s the 2009 season... So I would break this on 2: 2 different singles performance tables, 2 diferents titles/finals lists. It's such a big change and we can't change the past... 62.57.212.101 (talk) 13:11, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * As above: I definitely think this page is the wrong place to discuss these matters, as it is an issue pertaining to all tennis bios. --HJensen, talk 13:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

2008
It says "He began the year by reaching the semifinals of the Australian Open for the first time..." No, he began the year by reaching the final of 2008 Chennai Open - Singles and in the semi-final playing his second best match of the year (after Wimbledon), references can be also found for this claim Yosef1987 (talk) 12:27, 29 August 2008 (UTC)