Talk:Rafik Yousef

(untitled)
Full name was disclosed, move to Rafik Yousef? --176.2.18.8 (talk) 14:03, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 9 February 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Wbm1058 (talk) 02:15, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Rafik Y → Rafik Yousef – "Rafik Y" makes little sense for a biography article. This would be like having an article on David Cameron titled "David C". WP:TITLES AusLondonder (talk) 04:34, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I just moved it. I started article before the dastard's full name was released. No need for a discussion on something this uncontroversial.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:30, 9 February 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Categorisation
In obvious violation of the WP:1RR relating to WP:GS/ISIL, User:E.M.Gregory has reinstated the following categories: Category:Stabbing attacks in 2015 Category:2015 crimes in Germany Category:Islamic terrorism in Germany Category:Terrorist incidents in 2015 Category:21st century in Berlin Category:Terror attacks committed by paroled Islamic Terrorists Category:Category:Failed terrorist attempts (sic) I do not believe these categories are suitable for a biography article. For example WP:COPDEF states "Categorise by characteristics of the person, not characteristics of the article: The most common mistake of this type is adding an article to Category:Biography. That category may legitimately contain articles about biographical films or biographical books, but should not contain articles about individual people. The article is a biography; the person is not" - Yousef was a terrorist. He was not a terrorist incident. He was not a crime. Other guidelines at WP:COP also seem relevant. AusLondonder (talk) 02:22, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Third Opinion
A third opinion has been requested. It appears that only one editor has discussed the categorization. The other editor merely changed the categorization. Discussion is a precondition to third opinion. Also, if, as one editor states, an editor violated WP:1RR, that is a conduct issue, not a content issue, and third opinion is only for content issues. (I don't see a 1RR violation, but maybe I missed something.) Robert McClenon (talk) 02:47, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
 * My apologies for that. I did discuss with the editor at User talk:E.M.Gregory, but they continue to revert. AusLondonder (talk) 02:59, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Request for comment regarding categorisation
Should the following categories be included in this BIO article? Category:Stabbing attacks in 2015
 * Category:2015 crimes in Germany
 * Category:Islamic terrorism in Germany
 * Category:Terrorist incidents in 2015
 * Category:21st century in Berlin
 * Category:Terror attacks committed by paroled Islamic Terrorists
 * Category:Category:Failed terrorist attempts (sic)

Oppose inclusion I do not believe these categories are appropriate for a biography in any conceivable way. For example WP:COPDEF states "Categorise by characteristics of the person, not characteristics of the article: The most common mistake of this type is adding an article to Category:Biography. That category may legitimately contain articles about biographical films or biographical books, but should not contain articles about individual people. The article is a biography; the person is not" - Yousef was a terrorist. He was not a terrorist incident. He was not a crime. Other guidelines at WP:COP also seem relevant AusLondonder (talk) 10:11, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment Pinging editor who repeatedly inserted the categories, AusLondonder (talk) 10:27, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Reminding everyone that categories are designed to help users locate things that are alike, and/or that are related to the topic that interests them. Removing useful categories seems dysfuncional to me.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:39, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Page describes Yousef, his status as a Ansar al Islam militant, ant and  two incidents of terrorism he was involved in, a foiled plan to assassiate a Prime MInister, a knife attack on a police officer.  We can rename it Terrorist activity of Rafik Yousef.  Or simply recognize that the page is about both an individual terrorist, and two terrorist incidents.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:39, 12 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Let the AFD complete and then (if the article has survived) have this discussion. I haven't checked the details of the categories but broadly agree with AusLondonder. DexDor(talk) 22:20, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree. We should revisit this RfC until the AfD is closed. Meatsgains (talk) 02:32, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

No, per WP:COPDEF, although I agree with the sentiment of E.M.Gregory. (in response to RfC)--John, AF4JM (talk) 13:45, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Oppose inclusion It seems to me that this article is not a biography in the normal sense though I can see reason for it's inclusion in German crimes, if it has been included in German wiki version. There are long-standing categories of crimes by country and year. These highlight a very small number of crimes per year and some years are empty of articles. The suggested category of Islamic terrorism is extremely contentious and could amount to inciting racial hatered under UK law which is a criminal offense. Have IRA terrorist crimes been listed as Christian terrorism? Promoting one's own political views should be done on a blog, not on wiki. It's an encyclopedia not a personal blog page. agree Auslondoner Isthisuseful (talk) 13:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Problem with close
Just to notify editors I have raised a concern at the talk page of the closer, User talk:King of Hearts, given that two editors suggested deleting (including the nom) and two suggested keeping (including the page creator). I am mystified how that could equate to a keep. Why not a re-list or close as no consensus? Or indeed delete? AusLondonder (talk) 23:38, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 * AusLondoner, we all know that YOUDONTLIKE wikipedia to have article about terrorist attacks by Islamists, but when Ansar Al Islam sends a gang of terrorists to assassinate an Iraqi Prime Minister on Germam soil, the world notices. And when lenient German sentencing results in the release of that foiled Islamist assassin, and he uses the papers that permit him to live in Germany to pick up a knife and stab a police officer. It's notable.  Because sourcing.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:26, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, the AfD was amended by the closer to "no consensus" AusLondonder (talk) 18:37, 13 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Note that Nom was a notorious sockpuppet, now banned, and that only 3 editors attended.E.M.Gregory (talk) 00:49, 24 July 2017 (UTC)