Talk:Ragwort

Falka (talk) 11:29, 2 March 2008 (UTC) Falka The correct scientific name is changed Senecio Jacobaea has a new name Jacobaea vulgaris I don't know to change this, mabe someboy els can do this

Pelser, P. B., Gravendeel, B. & van der Meijden, R., (2002). Tackling speciose genera: species composition and phylogenetic position of Senecio sect. Jacobaea (Asteraceae) based on plastid and nrDNA sequences. Am.J.Bot. 89(6): 929-939 Pelser, P.B., Veldkamp, J.-F. & van der Meijden, R., (2006). New combinations in Jacobaea Mill. (Asteraceae - Senecioneae). Compositae Newsletter 44: 1-11.


 * First of all, Ragwort itself is a common name and gets used for a lot of different species. Second of all, it isn't the name that matters so much as it is the plant.  The species that was or is Senecio jacobaea has been mentioned in many many many papers with that name -- most of the research that was done about about how toxic it is and if it can help to cure cancer -- those papers are almost all with the name Senecio jacobaea.  Third, how many of the plants have been DNA'd?  What a mess to have some DNA id'd plants and many more not.  Fourth, a simple redirection page from Jacobaea vulgaris to Senecio jacobaea (not ragwort) is nice!  It is a wiki and while some of the software is limiting, some of it is very versatile -- there are hundreds and hundreds of pdf's which are stuck with the old name and wiki format can handle them all!


 * Lastly, it seems to be somewhat controversial: "The Russian botanist E. Wiebe (2000) resuscitated Jacobaea for plants that are treated here as Senecio jacobaea, S. erucifolius, and S. cannabifolius. Phylogenetic studies may confirm the utility of recognizing Jacobaea as a distinct genus; to do so here would be premature." I am rewriting the article for Senecio jacobaea -- I am not used to rewriting, I am used to starting and expanding.  The current article is not very well cited and I found a lot of very interesting stuff that was simply not included in the article that exists there now.


 * One last thing, is that paper available for the public to read? Expensive information might as well be classified and only for the few.  If they really want to see a change then they make the paper public. -- carol (talk) 11:50, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Falka (talk) 12:37, 2 March 2008 (UTC)Falka The papers are published, otherwise you can look at the website of Pieter http://pieterpelser.blogspot.com/ there you can download some papers to.

Falka (talk) 13:17, 2 March 2008 (UTC)Ragwort is my favorite plant. on my website you can see a lot of literature to. Look by references http://www.ragwort.jakobskruiskruid.com/


 * I like it as well -- I don't know if I have seen it in real life though, the photographs of it are very pretty. The whole genus (all of the genus of them, actually) are being very interesting to read and write about.  I recently started to try to manage the renaming of them on the article Senecio with an eye at Senecioneae.  Between 1850 and when World War I started, they figured out that Common ragwort was killing livestock when it was the only thing in the diet.  When farm animals die, it isn't that much fun -- but 100 years later, the story of how the bacteriologists fought with the success of less learned locals -- can I let you know when it is finished and poke you for a copy-edit?  They really seem to be dangerous because the livestock eat them instead of starving.  30-50 years of research with concentrated doses of the poison that is in them -- I am trying to be very careful when putting the information together....  So far, my favorite finished article (it just got a much needed spell check ;)) is Senecio squalidus; I highly recommend the two pdf in the further reading there.  It is an interesting tribe of flora, many many of them are indicator plants.  They grow when others don't grow or they grow first after a disaster.  Your favorite is by far the most complicated with magnitudes more information about them than the others.


 * Can I bother you for a copyedit when it is finished? -- carol (talk) 09:53, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Falka (talk) 13:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC)Falka I am interested in a copyedit. In the Senecio squalidus page there is a little mistake, the Netherlands is west Europe not middle Europe, Germany to. The Jacobaea vulgaris page it is an important page for horse keepers, cause they are concerned about poisoning and there is a lot of mis-information in the press and so on, they don't google at the scientific name but they google at ragwort. Maybe you will think about it so that they stil can find that page easily when they google on ragwortand they can find more correct information about ragwort.


 * Please adjust the European countries the way you think they should be. I was using divisions from here (en.wikipedia) and even they have several options.  It would be nice if Europe and the rest of the world had plant zones like United States does.  Plants don't follow the political divisions on the continent.  I can put some pictures on the Ragwort page.  Probably this page should be merged with Ragwort (disambiguation) and then this page redirected to that one.  Alphabetical might not be the best for this list.  Thanks for the different point of view. -- carol (talk) 14:16, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I merged the 2 disambiguation pages, and redirected this one to Senecio. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 15:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Falka (talk) 16:02, 3 March 2008 (UTC) thanks, I moved Germany and the Netherlands to West Europe.

Falka (talk) 20:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC) The links I gave is to introduce myself so everybody can check my credits. The discussion about ragwort and correct scientific name belongs on his page and not on my personal page like Carol does.