Talk:Rainbow (clipper)

Masts and See Also sections
About the masts: There's a mention of how much was taken off, does someone have an actual height of the mast for comparison? About the See Also: The Sea Witch link links to the article about the mythological sea witches, rather than the ship Sea Witch -Orodum 2601:0:5600:72:BDF6:BF0F:1C1B:2337 (talk) 22:43, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Not an extreme clipper
Rainbow was not an extreme clipper. Sources for this include:
 * Howard I. Chapelle's The Search for Speed Under Sail, which says "...There have been assumptions that Rainbow was extraordinarily hollow in her waterlines and this has led to a false impression that she was an extreme clipper." Howard Chapelle was a trained naval architect with an enormous reputation as a maritime historian.
 * American clipper ships, 1833-1858 by Octavius Howe and Frederick Matthews are careful to categorise this vessel as a "clipper". When they want to describe a vessel as an extreme clipper, that is the term that they use – similarly with "medium clipper". These authors have compiled a two volume work that attempts to cover all American ships in the stated period – they do so with a high level of accuracy.
 * David MacGregor's British and American Clippers specifically describes Rainbow as a "clipper". MacGregor is seen as an extensive authority on clippers – his Fast Sailing Ships could be seen to complement Chapelle's Search for Speed Under Sail, but he has written extensively on the history and development of sailing vessels – most of these works go into a lot of technical detail.

The above sources represent the definitive authorities on the subject. Carl C Cutler is more of a sports journalist scorekeeper of fast passages than someone to technically analyse the lines plan of a ship, but his Greyhound of the Sea does not use the term "extreme clipper" for Rainbow – "clipper".Greyhounds of the sea What about the authors cited in the article already? These are:
 * Lars Bruzelius a self-published source that might be easily accessible on a computer, but otherwise has little to commend it - though it does not describe Rainbow as an extreme clipper.
 * Crothers, William L (1997), The American-Built Clipper Ship, 1850-56: Characteristics, Construction and Details. I don't have access to this work. The first question to ask is: does this author use the term "extreme clipper" for Rainbow? If so, does he cite any sources? It appear from google books that the author only states that Rainbow was "the first true clipper ship" – no mention of "extreme".
 * Van Metre, Thurman William (1921), Economic history of the United States. A work on economic history is not an RS for the categorisation of a hull shape. It may just get away with being a source for the reception of such a shape among potential shipowners, but that is really better left to maritime historians.
 * THE CLIPPER SHIP ERA, Clarke, Arthur H., 1912. A readily accessible source (what does that tell you – no longer of any value to the publisher?) Large amounts of what Clarke says turns out to be wrong, questionable, or unsupported by any sort of verification. His work is not an RS.

There are lots of other things wrong with this article, so this is just a start. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 15:08, 5 January 2022 (UTC)