Talk:Rajput/Archive 24

Recent edit war
what is necessary for article is already provided. It is related to Rajputs overall not one or two specific houses. There are several authors saying that rajput dynasties arose in 7th century but because of the article being controversial, Britannica Rajput article is cited (which provided for 9th century). write all claims one by one over here and don't mess with article, i will provide you contradictory authorities and answers one by one for all your claims.....and we shall reach to conclusion. Rajput334 (talk) 15:21, 14 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I will comment myself once I've sorted out my internet access issues. I've change the section heading to something more neutral. - Sitush (talk) 15:26, 14 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I have sorted out my access problems but am really not in the mood to deal with this tonight (20:23 here). I'll take a look tomorrow and, please, can both of you not start reverting each other again until then? Even if the present version is "wrong", no-one is going to die during the next few hours because of it. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 20:25, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Rajput334,Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Rajput. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed by other contributors since beginning. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Administrators have the ability to block users from editing if they repeatedly remove sourced content. Thank you John811jd (talk) 09:04, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Etymology

The conclusion is obvious that they were not considered by the original residents to be respectable, to start with. This is because "Raaja" means royal but "Raj" means semen. The progeny of mixed marriages is even now called by that name in India. Local people knows this fact everwhere in India.

Wikipedia or britannica? its a mistake of this user Rajput334 that he is talking about tertiary source rather than secondary. Please have a sense of interpretation of word Wikipedia. if you don't then you probably need to discuss it at talk page,here..

Wikipedia is a free, online encyclopedia with entries that can be created, added, and edited by anyone. You belong to Rajput caste,so you may try to hide the well known facts. Please dnt.

Wikipedia is not your personal property. Please dont surpass other editors again and again. Thank you


 * Please sign your posts and please try to format them - see WP:TPG. I asked you both to stop warring and discuss but instead one of you decided to revert and then discuss. It is not acceptable and I have restored the prior content until we get consensus. I'm not saying that the present version is correct (or even better), merely following our usual procedures. Here are some initial thoughts.


 * Firstly, one of the changes was to say The Rajputs regard themselves as descendants or members of the Kshatriya (Hindu warrior ruling) class. It is probable that neither of you are aware of this but there has long been a consensus that we do not mention varna in the lead sections of articles. For that reason, the change is not acceptable.


 * John Keay has been used as a source, which is not a great idea. He is a popular writer, not a genuine academic. It would be better to use whatever his sources may be rather than cite him directly.


 * We should never, ever use Abul Fazl as a source: he is too old, too biassed and is effectively primary. The same applies to Firishta, while ambedkar.org is an advocacy group and is only reliable for its opinions about itself.


 * Poet and author V. D. Mahajan is honest enough to accept that the word "Rajput" is used to denote the illegitimate sons of a Kshatriya chief or Jagirdar is completely unacceptable. Please read WP:NPOV and please explain why the opinion of a "poet and author" matters for something of a historical nature.


 * Furthermore, the Rajput relations with Mughal were consolidated by marriage and blood ties; the Akbar's successors, Jahangir and Shah Jahan were sons of Rajput Princesses is therefore not insignifant. (and probably much of the section in which it is situated) was a copyright violation of the cited source. Please see WP:COPYRIGHT.


 * The political effect of these alliances was significant. While some Rajput women who entered Akbar's harem converted to Islam, they were generally provided full religious freedom, and their relatives, who continued to remain Hindu, formed a significant part of the nobility and served to articulate the opinions of the majority of the common populace in the imperial court I can't see where the source supports this statement, and the writing looks suspect also. Where was it copy/pasted from?


 * I do not understand Although the word "Rajput" is supposed to be a corrupted form of the Sanskrit word 'Raajaputra', which means a "scion of the royal blood", the word occurs in the Puranas. at all. What is the point that we are trying to make? That Rajput predates the Rajput community?
 * -Sitush (talk) 14:44, 15 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I Agree with Sitush. but i would comment on mentioning varna, alright if there is a consensus not to mention the varna in lead section then we can mention it in first lines of subheading, origins, that *The Rajputs regard themselves descendants or members of Kshatriya (Hindu warrior ruling) class. It is necessary because the further reading under sub-heading 'origins' would not make sense to a normal reader otherwise. And one more thing, if Kshatriya is to be removed from lead section, Then the whole line that would then become *The Rajputs regard themselves as descendants or Members of Hindu Warrior ruling class, implies that perhaps the Rajput people at present just regards themselves as decedents of Rajputs but they are perhaps not regarded by others as such. even if we tag Hindu warrior class to Kshatriya page, it would not be recognized by a normal reader, and the effect will be that which i have told earlier. so, that is why i would suggest that the whole line should be removed from lead section in this case and should be inserted in start of 'origins' sub-heading as, *The Rajputs regard themselves as descendants or Members of Kshatriya (Hindu Warrior ruling) class. Rajput334 (talk) 05:36, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * The lead section used to say "They claim to be descendants of ruling warrior classes of North India." The problem that you raise is a common one for caste articles here, not just ones relating to Rajputs. Most of us (and most sources) find it difficult to believe that every single member of a caste is descended from someone who ruled. Ignoring the mythological origins (Lunar, Solar etc) which we know to be absurd, who was that common ancestor to which every single Rajput is directly related? - Sitush (talk) 11:50, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * They find common ancestors in different clans. What about not writing their claim in lead section and rather mentioning this in opening line of sub-heading origins as *The Rajputs regard themselves as descendants or Members of Kshatriya (Hindu Warrior ruling) class?. Rajput334 (talk) 12:47, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Because it is WP:PUFFERY? - Sitush (talk) 13:00, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * But Britannica also uses same words. we have already much criticized these claims in origins sub-heading, then how would it really be a puff ? we can use word claim. Rajput334 (talk) 13:19, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Firstly, it is a copyright violation. Secondly, it would be better to find a source that was not tertiary. And thirdly, it completely misrepresents what EB actually says: you cannot take something like that out of context. - Sitush (talk) 14:02, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Even we take it in context EB is not saying they do not regard themselves as such or do not claim to be so. Rajput334 (talk) 02:13, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
 * You need to read WP:NPOV. No way are we going to give only half the story here. - Sitush (talk) 07:26, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Sir,there is no cannection between sanskrit word raaja putra and rajput. The word "Rajput" is used to denote the” illegitimate sons of a king”. Please correct the sentence as.. Rajput (from Sanskrit raja-putra, "illegimate son of a king"[1]) is a member of one of the patrilineal clans of western, central, northern India and current eastern Pakistan. We cant do injustice with truth,sources says this.
 * Rajput (from Sanskrit raja-putra, "son of a king"[1]) is a member of one of the patrilineal clans of western, central, northern India and current eastern Pakistan.

MORE BOOKS SOURCES-- .

This is because "Raaja" means royal but "Raj" means semen. They have been considered to be the illegitimate children borne of relationships between the ruling raajas and their female slaves.

Sir,a half truth article is deceptive. we should not hide truth from the readers.

Rajput rose to prominance during 16th to 19th centuries”, because Rajput came into existence in 16th century. Please cite John Keay books sources.
 * Rajputs rose to prominence during the 9th to 12th centuries.. Please correct this line as”

Sir,Gurjara Pratihara dynasty king Mihira Bhoja I (836–885 CE) or Bhoja I was a Gurjar King,whom these rajputs claim to be a rajput! Please click on the link below,even Government Of India knows this. Click on the links below please-

delhi.gov.in/DoIT/DoIT_Dsec/ward1-5.xls

http://www.findlatitudeandlongitude.com/?loc=Gurjar+Samrat+Mihir+Bhoj+Marg%2C+Pandav+Nagar%2C+New+Delhi%2C+Delhi+110092%2C+India&id=1057564

, Gurjar Samrat Mihir Bhoj Marg near Yamuna River

http://in.placelandia.com/map/gurjar-samrat-mihir-bhoj-marg-pandav-nagar-new-delhi-delhi-india.html

NH-24 (National Highway no. 24) from Sarai Kale Khan village Road(New Delhi) to Ghazipur Dairy Farm(Delhi) - U.P. Border Road (Ring Road)......Ghaziabad -Hapur bipass....to Moradabad ...named as "Gurjar Samrat Mihir Bhoj Marg".

In Harshcharita by Bhan Bhat, there is a reference that during the reign of Prabhakar Vardhan there were some powerful domains (kingdoms) of Gujjars. 1.These powerful domains (Kingdoms) were of pratihars, Parmars, Solankis, Chawras,Chauhans,Tanwars etc. This book was written sometime in 6th. century. The rajput word in the history appeared after 16th. century. 2. The origin of Rajputs has been there in History papers of Indian Administrative service (IAS) in one of the year during 90s and solved answers were published in the Employment news clearly stating that the earlier feudatories (Samants) of Gurjar Pratihars (a clan of Gurjars), got freedom and were later called as rajputs irrespective of their original race.

More Proof- Rajputs were mostly feudal lords holding the status of the revenue collectors for the Gurjar overlords. (As written in the Indian Civil services solved papers).

Rajputs were basically the illegitimate children of the Gurjar-Pratihars, who claim descent from Sooraj (most probably Mihir Bhoj), and hence called themselves soorajvamshi (they could obviously not originate from SUN, though later they created another story of them being fire born or agnivamshi, which made their claim more funny and illogical). (As written by Ferishta books.)

Rajput was not used in the Indian writings until the times of Babar (early 16th centuries). Even the famous books such as rajtarangini, kumarpal charita, prithviraj Raso etc. never used the word rajput as a caste or community.

https://www.facebook.com/GujjarHistory/posts/361362410628537

Sir,you pointed out- •	John Keay has been used as a source, which is not a great idea. He is a popular writer, not a genuine academic. It would be better to use whatever his sources may be rather than cite him directly. Sir,Rajput word first used by British. According to John Keay, not until the Mughal period, which began in 1526 AD, did the word "Rajput" come to be used of a particular class. It must be added in origin section by citing Sir John Keay sources. Please include his sources. Thank you.

•	Poet and author V. D. Mahajan is honest enough to accept that the word "Rajput" is used to denote the illegitimate sons of a Kshatriya chief or Jagirdar is completely unacceptable. Please read WP:NPOV and please explain why the opinion of a "poet and author" matters for something of a historical nature.

Sir, Mahajan Vidya Dhar, "Ancient India", Fifth Edition, Reprint 1972, Chand and Co., New Delhi. p. 550 ff. Please include his sources for this line.

•	Furthermore, the Rajput relations with Mughal were consolidated by marriage and blood ties; the Akbar's successors, Jahangir and Shah Jahan were sons of Rajput Princesses is therefore not insignifant. (and probably much of the section in which it is situated) was a copyright violation of the cited source. Please see WP:COPYRIGHT.

Sir,it may be a copyright violation,but I have provided other sources which are authentic and free from violation. Please cite them.

•	I do not understand Although the word "Rajput" is supposed to be a corrupted form of the Sanskrit word 'Raajaputra', which means a "scion of the royal blood", the word occurs in the Puranas. at all. What is the point that we are trying to make? That Rajput predates the Rajput community? Sir,there is no cannection between sanskrit word raaja putra and rajput. The word "Rajput" is used to denote the” illegitimate sons of a king” as the source says. This is because "Raaja" means royal but "Raj" means semen. There is a slight difference between Raaja and Raj,but menaings are completely different,as explained earlier through books.

Sir,Please include this ,as it is significnt.

Ridiculous
This is bloody ridiculous. If people cannot understand even the basics of Wikipedia talk page etiquette here, as seems to be the case, then please will they not bother contributing at all. I'm not even responding to any of the mess that is above this section. Take a look at WP:TPG, note how we use headings, note how we indent, note how we sign our posts etc. Complete madness, this is. - Sitush (talk) 14:12, 21 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh, and note also WP:TLDR and that things such as Blogspot and Facebook are not reliable sources, nor are books from the Raj era or earlier. - Sitush (talk) 14:17, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

jatt gujjar ahir are all claiming to be kshatriyas. They are claiming rajput tribes and kings as theirs kings and tribes. This is all lies. ask the artisan castes like nai mochi teli lohar tarkhan. They will tell you that rajputs are the real kshatriyas. Are jatts real kshatriyas or ahirs or gujjars real kshatriyas. First decide between yourselves then tell other people. mali saini kohl bhil are also claiming to be kshatriyas as well. Every one is so obsessed with being kshatriya. Every one cannot be kshatriya. Rajputs are the one and only kshatriyas. The reason gujjars are spread all over the north is because they are nomads and graziers. They used to go every where with their cattle and goats and sheeps even as far as afghanistan and bengal as graziers and shepherds and herders but not as rulers.the misinterpretation of the phrase gurjara pratihara has created all this confusion. pratihara were rajput kshatriyas and they lived in a country called gurjaratra or gujrat that is why they were called pratiharas of gujrat. for example the brahmins who served maithila kings came to be called maithil brahmana. The brahmins of kanyakubja came to be called kanyakubja brahmana. The brahmins of gurjaratra came to be called gurjara brahmana. the maithila brahmana kanyakubja brahmana and gurjara brahmana are named after kingdoms or countries they served.There are many towns and regions named after gujjars because the gujjars settled or lived in those towns and areas and not because they ruled there. Try to find out why the district gujrat in pakistan is named after gujjars. There is a gujjar tribe called topa in gujrat district. find out why they are called topa.Rajbaz (talk) 16:43, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2014
Rajpoot noun 1. (Hinduism) one of a Hindu military caste claiming descent from the Kshatriya, the original warrior caste Word Origin
 * from Hindi, from Sanskrit rājan king;

THAKUR RPS (talk) 10:03, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 15:52, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a specific change.

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2015
Hi, kindly replace the following line (found under the heading of "origin"):

"Aydogdy Kurbanov says that the assimilation was specifically between the Hephthalites, Gurjars, and people from northwestern India, forming the Rajput community."

Please replace it with this line:

"Several historians, such as W. Crooke, V.A. Smith , A.F. Rudolf Hoernle , Sir. Athelstane Baines , Aydogy Kurbanov , D.R. Bhandarkar , and R.C. Majumdar , believe that the Rajputs originated from Gurjaras and Hunas that formed blood alliances with the native rulers of North India."

The reasons for this request:

The previous statement does not do justice to the fact that a large number of historians trace Rajput origin from the Gurjaras. The readers deserve to know about the several different mainstream historians who take this position. The old statement gives the impression that only a generally unknown Russian historian, called Aydogdy Kurbanov, originates Rajputs from Gurjaras, which is contrary to reality, and thus, deceiving to the readers.

I have tried to substantiate my edit with academic references, however, if you find something missing, do contact me, and I will comply with whatever is required.

Thanks, and I hope this edit will be implemented as soon as possible, in spirit of keeping the flow of information open and available to all readers.

Best regards! --Axtramedium (talk) 21:12, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Thanks for your suggestion; you've obviously taken some time to find these sources. Unfortunately, I haven't added this to the article since the sources you provide are all very old. The latest, Bhandarkar, appears to be from 1940 (Kurbanov's cited doctoral thesis, by contrast, is from 2010). Citing all of these historians by name in the article therefore gives a misleading impression that they are representative of the current state of the field. If you want to demonstrate that there are "several different mainstream historians who take this position" (in the present tense) then you'll need to provide more recent reliable sources. Have a look at Identifying reliable sources (history) for more detail, particularly concerning the importance of recent scholarship. Feel free to edit and reopen your request if you can find such sources. — Nizolan  (talk) 23:56, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Real History Of Rajput
According to Hindu myths this caste used to exist from Satyug. The truthfull king Raja Harishchandra was a Suryavanshi Rajput. In Treta yug Lord Ram was born in a Raghuvanshi Rajput Family. In dwapar yug Lord Sri Krishna was born in Yaduvanshi Rajput Family. Even in Rigveda the word Kshatriya was used to describe Rajputs. In Kaliyuga the first great Rajput was born as the name Gautama Sidhhartha who later came to be known as Gautam Budhha.

Saurabh Singh Gautam (talk) 10:15, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --I am  k6ka  Talk to me!   See what I have done  14:47, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Rajputs own claim
There's nothing wrong with writing about Rajputs own claim, in fact if it was Britannica wouldn't have done this. The opening lines of origins section should begin this way, Rajputs claim Kshatriya ancestry and this is also a subject of debate. It would also render the origin section more sensible than its existing form Decentscholar (talk) 08:49, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * ... also...? What other thing is debated? Forget how Britannica do it - the article already relies far too much on the thing. Placing the Rajput varna claim first when it is based purely on folk-lore, rather than academic study, seems like undue weight to me. - Sitush (talk) 08:55, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I never said their belief (based on whatever) is true or not. but belief is a belief, its a fact that they believe so, so it is ought to be written. really how belief or claim of someone can be undue weight when we're already saying its a subject of debate.

Take an example, Muslims consider Adam to be their ancestor and all humanity, we wrote this on wikipedia without any academic writing, for this is written in precise words, Muslims believe Adam to be their ancestor, how that really creates undue weight, that's belief or claim of a group of people. may be someone of us do not agree but this is the way they consider it. so It may not be a fact that Adam is ancestor of all humanity, but its a fact that Muslims believe him to be so. The language we use obviously matters, I am asking you to mention it in a very reasonable way! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Decentscholar (talk • contribs) 15:52, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Sitush, actually I had taken your silence as acceptance. My innocent question to u, you too had no consensus for undoing | this change. do you think you don't need it, its only for other editors? don't mind, its innocent question, i have noted long that you maintain some kind of supremacy for yourself everywhere! is it really that my contributions to wikipedia are not legitimate unless you don't disagree with it. Again please don't mind, I'm not at all discouraging you. - Decentscholar (talk) 15:33, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Believe me, if I agree with you then I will say so. Due to the sheer number of articles that I deal with, and the repetitive nature of arguments such as yours, I tend nowadays to say my piece once. If others weigh in then that becomes a different story but, right now, the content that you are trying to change has existed for some considerable time and has been reviewed by some very experienced contributors. For what it is worth, I got some thanks for reverting you. - Sitush (talk) 16:57, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * well, I'm never biased, it must be your point of view. In accordance with your argument, I'll just make a change that existed for a long period of time and it was undone without any reason. Cheers! Decentscholar (talk) 17:14, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * And I have had to revert you again, sorry. There is a long-standing consensus that we do not state varna in the lead section of an article. This has been discussed at venues such as WT:INB and I rather think it has also been discussed previously on this talk page. - Sitush (talk) 04:11, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Tod
Tod may be very unreliable but Jason Frietag never said he was manifestly biased. what exactly he's saying is that, Tod is extremely important (or essential) to configure the present image of Rajputs. how can we misinterpret these simple words. we're suppose to do literal interpretation of his words! Decentscholar (talk) 11:46, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Read James Tod, which is a featured article and got an extraordinary amount of scrutiny prior to being nominated as such. Read the cited page of Freitag. Are the words "manifestly biased" there? What Freitag is saying is that to understand the Rajput veneration of Tod it is necessary to understand how enamoured Tod was of them and how little he bothered to query their vanity etc. He was manifestly biased in their favour.


 * The passage exists in this article because far too many Rajput contributors were trying to treat Tod as some sort of oracle here, wanting to insert his glorification which itself was basically a transcript of their ancestor's words as spoken to him - a vicious circle of puffery. He wasn't an oracle; he isn't.


 * I am seriously toying with the idea of asking admins to watch out for Rajput contributors here and then forcing them to limit their contributions to this talk page, as per WP:COI. It gets ridiculous sometimes, it really does. - Sitush (talk) 11:58, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clarification, by the way let me tell you some more wise words, let say I spent most of my life in London with local interactions and you a non-londoner claim to know more about London than me!?! that may be something in theory but practically its not. similar way Tod may be very unreliable but he spent most of his time with Indian people, Thus, he would obviously be more reliable than so called modern historians without any practical experience of things! so, It can't obviously be said that 'Tod being unreliable' or 'some modern historians being reliable' is an absolute truth! Decentscholar (talk) 13:24, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Completely irrelevant. See WP:V and WP:RS. - Sitush (talk) 13:59, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Mughals and Marathas
@Sitush, Mughals and Marathas must be mentioned in Rajput page. Rajputs had a great history with both of them. Even today, People know Rajputs for their friendship ( Raja Man Singh etc.) and rivalry (Rana Pratap etc.) with Mughals. As far as the Marathas are concerned, two great Maratha leaders had Rajput blood in them- Shivaji ( most probably from father's side) and Mahadaji Shinde (from mother's side) and also notably Maratha-Rajput conflicts. Not a single reference to them in this page, I think, is distortion of history. Thank you.Ghatus (talk) 09:41, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

We have quite enough Maratha pov-pushing on this project as it is. You'll have to come up with some sources. - Sitush (talk) 09:46, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It is just to hide the fact of political marriage alliance issue as some of the Rajput princess were married to Mughals. Earlier, I added Mughal Maratha alliances with sources, but were removed and found insignificant by the eminent editors. A vital part of Indian History but fully absent on wikipedia. But, Marathas are no way Rajputs and none of the sources prove so, they are Maratha, a separate political Identity. -- Mahensingha (Talk) "Thanx n Regards" 11:55, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Edit request
I have an edit request regarding History section. The subheading origins should come after the subheading of Rajput kingdoms, the reason is that former is subject of debate (in other words its uncertain). It seems weird too keep uncertain thing over the certain thing (which is also probably the subject matter of article). 168.235.196.199 (talk) 11:17, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I think showing things chronologically works better. Reversing the order might also seem a bit like puffing-up, ie: showing the stuff that Rajputs love to boast about before the stuff that is less certain. - Sitush (talk) 11:56, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Well you are probably retaliating Rajputs ;) Because I didn't ask to decorate them. Its just that article seems weird in this way.202.69.11.20 (talk) 15:43, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

I agree with this edit request. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Decentscholar (talk • contribs) 12:00, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Rajput subordination
Neither this change nor the original text really reflects the source. What the source says is as follows: "The Timurids won the loyalty of thousands of Rajput warriors, generation after generation. The publicly proclaimed devotion of these prestigious chiefs had its impact on hundreds of lesser Rajput lineages who controlled localities across northern and central India. Akbar pre-empted the possibility of the rise of another Rajput coalition similar to that which his grandfather had faced at Kanua in 1527. The Rajputs in turn placed themselves in a much wider political arena. Instead of being caught up in local internecine conflicts, they became imperial generals, statesmen and high administrators. Instead of being content with the produce of the semi-arid lands of Rajasthan, they diverted streams of wealth from the largess of the empire towards their homelands."

What we seem to have here is a situation that is all too common for this Hindu/Muslim palaver. It needs to stop, and people need to use the sources properly. The Richards source neither justifies the word "most" nor the word "some". The first is quite simply not said; the latter seems to be a deliberate attempt to undermine the significance, or else a mistake based on original research rather than reading the source itself. The correct word should probably be "many" and the sentence should refer to Akbar also because it seems that things were different a couple of generations earlier.

This article is subject to discretionary sanctions and I won't hesitate to call in the admins if the abuses continue. - Sitush (talk) 18:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Sitush you seem to deliberately write less of Rajputs. You removed Surashtra from top which clearly shows your bias against Rajputs. The edit request above is a very sensible point but you wouldn't do it because you are biased. Kindly if you can check dictionary, 'some' means unspecified number or fairly large number, so you can't criticise that edit of me. As far as 'close relationship' is concerned, it's again unsuitable word, the precise word according to source is 'alliance'. I frankly think you need a sanction. Decentscholar (talk) 09:13, 9 April 2015 (UTC)


 * 'many' means large but indefinite number, and its not indefinite due to the use of word 'thousands', so, word 'some' which means unspecified number or fairly large number is suitable word. Because how many thousands its not specified. The word Many would sound like 'unlimited numbers'. Decentscholar (talk) 10:21, 9 April 2015 (UTC)


 * "Some" could be two. I'm not the one pushing a pov here - I'm not even Asian and I have no horse in this race. - Sitush (talk) 11:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter you are Asian or not. Your horse is implied and I can see that. Some can't be two, three, five, or seven, if it was then there would have been no need of word some. Some means unspecified, and clearly source isn't specifying, or we take other meaning of some it would be fairly large number. At least word some isn't POV like the word 'many', its indeed exaggeration. Decentscholar (talk) 14:37, 9 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I have reverted you again. You cannot keep going away for a few days and then reappearing to assert your position in the article. The latest developments in this thread are particularly worrying because it now looks like you may be breaching copyright also. - Sitush (talk) 19:00, 18 April 2015 (UTC)


 * There is no copy right violation. how can you say this without reading the source, and you've restored a version which is incompatible with the source. Just few edits ago you were not to rely on Britannica but now you can relay because its about edit warring with me. The edit which I did is in accordance with the source mentioned. Its ironic that you are more interested in undoing the edits rather than carefully reading the source. Decentscholar (talk) 19:30, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Rajput Mughal Marriages
Why does it again and again face a revert, if anything related to Rajput-Mughal marital alliances is added. Numerous marriages took place to safeguard the said alliance. Is the relation like marriage, irrelevant or a thing to be hidden? Is the marriage, a thing of dishonour? Are we neutrally projecting the facts or can the historical facts be changed, if we do so???? Dear Decentscholar, you reverted it without any discussion. Why? are your edits neutral or simply these are advertising for Rajput glory. Please reply--- Mahensingha (Talk) "Thanx n Regards" 19:37, 4 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Agree. I know that the present-day Rajputs do not like to be reminded of their Hindu ancestors marrying Muslims etc but, protest as much as they like about TV series/movies etc, their sensitivities count for nothing on Wikipedia. There were many marriage alliances between Rajput leaders' families and those of the Mughals. The sources are there, the reasons usually related to power-plays and indeed the Sisodias of Mewar made it a particular point to claim that, unlike their peers, they did not engage in the practice.


 * You don't like this? Tough. You have some reliable sources that contest the statements already made? That's fine: bring them on per WP:NPOV. - Sitush (talk) 19:38, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

you are just emulating what was doing regarding this marriage stuff, both in your actions and also in your arguments (such as this). Please read this talk page and note that Decentscholar's exercises in semantics never got consensus and that they ended up being blocked. That last edit of yours doesn't even make sense: if "few" must be used then it should read A few. - Sitush (talk) 07:05, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Okay then make it 'A few', since some isn't appropriate word for the reason I've told u. Rajput334 (talk) 07:14, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * No I will not. I was merely pointing out that it makes no sense. The fact remains that "a few" doesn't really cover "17 out of 40" - we could say "nearly half" but I'd be happy with "some". Like I said, this issue has been discussed before with one of your fellow-travellers. I'm coming to the conclusion that you should not edit the article at all because of your declared conflict of interest (you even have User Rajput on your user page) and your obvious desire to sanitise the article. - Sitush (talk) 07:20, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes I'm a Rajput but I do have right to edit this page. Actually you have misunderstood '17 out of 40'. The word 'A few' will be for Rajputs not for 17 out of 40, Actually 40 is claimed to be the total number of marriages Akbar accomplished, There were hundreds of Noble Rajputs and 17 would be 'A few' indeed. You were going to do it half?? lol..... At least see what it is about. It clearly reveals you are not aware of what you are talking about. Rajput334 (talk) 07:40, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Please listen to 's advice and be aware that discretionary sanctions apply to this and all related articles. Philg88 ♦talk 07:42, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Rajput334, with this edit you are now battling against me, and quite probably . I can live with Philg88's "A number of ..." compromise. Please will you look above at my comment about the Sisodias - it is a blue link and if you click on it then you will see that the intermarriage was so common that the Sisodias made a big issue of out not intermarrying: they felt that it set them apart and somehow made them more legitimate than the other Rajput communities. - Sitush (talk) 08:22, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Sitush, if you want to talk overall about Rajputs then use words a few, or if you want to use word ' A number of' which means many, then do it this way A number of Rajasthani Rajputs (or Rajputs of Rajasthan), I also have consensus of user Ghatus on this point [here], i would look for citation but ::::If you can provide me a citation of Punjabi Rajputs, Sindhi Rajputs, Kashmiri Rajputs, Gujarati Rajputs etc marrying Mughal emperors then I would agree with you.

Rajput334 (talk) 09:08, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I think you need to read WP:CONSENSUS. It is not a vote. Neither you nor Ghatus, who is also known for pov-pushing, have come up with a policy-compliant reason for us to do as you request. As I have said above, you need to bring on the sources to support your position - the burden is yours, not mine. - Sitush (talk) 09:24, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Using the word "few" indicates suppressing the fact. In my opinion "Some" shall be preferred. The fact is fact, It is on records throughout the history and curtaining it here does not bring the fruits. I think we all shall accept the realities without being so rigid on the matters well supported with the reliable sources.--MahenSingha (Talk) 15:29, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * , What point of view did I push? Why is this sweeping statement? I have no love lost for Rajputs. You better think over yourself. BTW, I found point in user Rajput334's argument. I would better suggest you to name those 17 Rajput princesses you mentioned or give the link with names. Every confusion would be clear then. I am yet to find any non-Rajputana name (though there is a bundela name with roots in rajputana) Finally,personal attack shows intellectual incapacity. Ghatus (talk) 14:25, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Ghatus, 17 out of 40 is not at all well reasoned to be accepted as Authentic. It was royal arrangement so there must be other citations, cite them or I suggest to remove this statement. 202.69.15.155 (talk) 16:12, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Farukhshiyar married daughter of Ajit Singh Rathore, Akbar married daughter of Bharamall.See page 272-275, Akbar married Rajput princess of Amber, Jodhur, Jaisalmer. Akbar's son salim married princess of Amber, Gwalior, Bikaner, Jaisalmer, little tibet etc. (salim had 8 or more wives who were from Rajputs from Rajputana and other princely states.see page 127-153--MahenSingha (Talk) 14:47, 7 June 2015 (UTC)


 * That means they were all from Rajasthan, insert the word Rajputs of Rajasthan in the article then.2A03:2880:1010:DFF5:FACE:B00C:0:8000 (talk) 13:39, 7 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Please find Gwalior state is not in Rajasthan. It was ruled by Tomar Rajputs. More over the term "Rajasthan" came into existence much later. Also, the Rajputs after becoming relatives of Mughals were given charges of various locations spread through out on the Indian map ruled by Mughals, who were centred at Agra. The Rajputs of Jaipur under Mughal supremacy were made independent rulers for the region from Jaipur to Malwa.--MahenSingha (Talk) 14:47, 7 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes u r right, Gwalior was part of Rajputana not Rajasthan. and it was called Rajputana then. so insert Rajputs of Rajputana. 2A03:2880:3010:6FF0:FACE:B00C:0:1 (talk) 14:44, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, neither Gwalior nor Tibbet or Agra was ever part of Rajputana. Kindly go through the Political maps of Medieval India. The map for Rajputana:See here Gwalior was itself a state. Presently also it is in Madhya Pradesh and not in Rajasthan I suggest in place of unnecessarily pushing your POV, its better to study the facts. I find nothing objectionable in the article. Given above are just examples there are many more Rajput Mughal marriage alliances which can be quoted here. Please try to understand.--MahenSingha (Talk)  18:02, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Archived Discussion
Do not reignite the issues which have already been discussed and avoid Edit warring please

Rajput subordination
Neither this change nor the original text really reflects the source. What the source says is as follows: "The Timurids won the loyalty of thousands of Rajput warriors, generation after generation. The publicly proclaimed devotion of these prestigious chiefs had its impact on hundreds of lesser Rajput lineages who controlled localities across northern and central India. Akbar pre-empted the possibility of the rise of another Rajput coalition similar to that which his grandfather had faced at Kanua in 1527. The Rajputs in turn placed themselves in a much wider political arena. Instead of being caught up in local internecine conflicts, they became imperial generals, statesmen and high administrators. Instead of being content with the produce of the semi-arid lands of Rajasthan, they diverted streams of wealth from the largess of the empire towards their homelands."

What we seem to have here is a situation that is all too common for this Hindu/Muslim palaver. It needs to stop, and people need to use the sources properly. The Richards source neither justifies the word "most" nor the word "some". The first is quite simply not said; the latter seems to be a deliberate attempt to undermine the significance, or else a mistake based on original research rather than reading the source itself. The correct word should probably be "many" and the sentence should refer to Akbar also because it seems that things were different a couple of generations earlier.

This article is subject to discretionary sanctions and I won't hesitate to call in the admins if the abuses continue. - Sitush (talk) 18:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Sitush you seem to deliberately write less of Rajputs. You removed Surashtra from top which clearly shows your bias against Rajputs. The edit request above is a very sensible point but you wouldn't do it because you are biased. Kindly if you can check dictionary, 'some' means unspecified number or fairly large number, so you can't criticise that edit of me. As far as 'close relationship' is concerned, it's again unsuitable word, the precise word according to source is 'alliance'. I frankly think you need a sanction. Decentscholar (talk) 09:13, 9 April 2015 (UTC)


 * 'many' means large but indefinite number, and its not indefinite due to the use of word 'thousands', so, word 'some' which means unspecified number or fairly large number is suitable word. Because how many thousands its not specified. The word Many would sound like 'unlimited numbers'. Decentscholar (talk) 10:21, 9 April 2015 (UTC)


 * "Some" could be two. I'm not the one pushing a pov here - I'm not even Asian and I have no horse in this race. - Sitush (talk) 11:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter you are Asian or not. Your horse is implied and I can see that. Some can't be two, three, five, or seven, if it was then there would have been no need of word some. Some means unspecified, and clearly source isn't specifying, or we take other meaning of some it would be fairly large number. At least word some isn't POV like the word 'many', its indeed exaggeration. Decentscholar (talk) 14:37, 9 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I have reverted you again. You cannot keep going away for a few days and then reappearing to assert your position in the article. The latest developments in this thread are particularly worrying because it now looks like you may be breaching copyright also. - Sitush (talk) 19:00, 18 April 2015 (UTC)


 * There is no copy right violation. how can you say this without reading the source, and you've restored a version which is incompatible with the source. Just few edits ago you were not to rely on Britannica but now you can relay because its about edit warring with me. The edit which I did is in accordance with the source mentioned. Its ironic that you are more interested in undoing the edits rather than carefully reading the source. Decentscholar (talk) 19:30, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Rajput Mughal Marriages
Why does it again and again face a revert, if anything related to Rajput-Mughal marital alliances is added. Numerous marriages took place to safeguard the said alliance. Is the relation like marriage, irrelevant or a thing to be hidden? Is the marriage, a thing of dishonour? Are we neutrally projecting the facts or can the historical facts be changed, if we do so???? Dear Decentscholar, you reverted it without any discussion. Why? are your edits neutral or simply these are advertising for Rajput glory. Please reply--- Mahensingha (Talk) "Thanx n Regards" 19:37, 4 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Agree. I know that the present-day Rajputs do not like to be reminded of their Hindu ancestors marrying Muslims etc but, protest as much as they like about TV series/movies etc, their sensitivities count for nothing on Wikipedia. There were many marriage alliances between Rajput leaders' families and those of the Mughals. The sources are there, the reasons usually related to power-plays and indeed the Sisodias of Mewar made it a particular point to claim that, unlike their peers, they did not engage in the practice.


 * You don't like this? Tough. You have some reliable sources that contest the statements already made? That's fine: bring them on per WP:NPOV. - Sitush (talk) 19:38, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

you are just emulating what was doing regarding this marriage stuff, both in your actions and also in your arguments (such as this). Please read this talk page and note that Decentscholar's exercises in semantics never got consensus and that they ended up being blocked. That last edit of yours doesn't even make sense: if "few" must be used then it should read A few. - Sitush (talk) 07:05, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Okay then make it 'A few', since some isn't appropriate word for the reason I've told u. Rajput334 (talk) 07:14, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * No I will not. I was merely pointing out that it makes no sense. The fact remains that "a few" doesn't really cover "17 out of 40" - we could say "nearly half" but I'd be happy with "some". Like I said, this issue has been discussed before with one of your fellow-travellers. I'm coming to the conclusion that you should not edit the article at all because of your declared conflict of interest (you even have User Rajput on your user page) and your obvious desire to sanitise the article. - Sitush (talk) 07:20, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes I'm a Rajput but I do have right to edit this page. Actually you have misunderstood '17 out of 40'. The word 'A few' will be for Rajputs not for 17 out of 40, Actually 40 is claimed to be the total number of marriages Akbar accomplished, There were hundreds of Noble Rajputs and 17 would be 'A few' indeed. You were going to do it half?? lol..... At least see what it is about. It clearly reveals you are not aware of what you are talking about. Rajput334 (talk) 07:40, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Please listen to 's advice and be aware that discretionary sanctions apply to this and all related articles. Philg88 ♦talk 07:42, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Rajput334, with this edit you are now battling against me, and quite probably . I can live with Philg88's "A number of ..." compromise. Please will you look above at my comment about the Sisodias - it is a blue link and if you click on it then you will see that the intermarriage was so common that the Sisodias made a big issue of out not intermarrying: they felt that it set them apart and somehow made them more legitimate than the other Rajput communities. - Sitush (talk) 08:22, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Sitush, if you want to talk overall about Rajputs then use words a few, or if you want to use word ' A number of' which means many, then do it this way A number of Rajasthani Rajputs (or Rajputs of Rajasthan), I also have consensus of user Ghatus on this point [here], i would look for citation but ::::If you can provide me a citation of Punjabi Rajputs, Sindhi Rajputs, Kashmiri Rajputs, Gujarati Rajputs etc marrying Mughal emperors then I would agree with you.

Rajput334 (talk) 09:08, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I think you need to read WP:CONSENSUS. It is not a vote. Neither you nor Ghatus, who is also known for pov-pushing, have come up with a policy-compliant reason for us to do as you request. As I have said above, you need to bring on the sources to support your position - the burden is yours, not mine. - Sitush (talk) 09:24, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Using the word "few" indicates suppressing the fact. In my opinion "Some" shall be preferred. The fact is fact, It is on records throughout the history and curtaining it here does not bring the fruits. I think we all shall accept the realities without being so rigid on the matters well supported with the reliable sources.--MahenSingha (Talk) 15:29, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * , What point of view did I push? Why is this sweeping statement? I have no love lost for Rajputs. You better think over yourself. BTW, I found point in user Rajput334's argument. I would better suggest you to name those 17 Rajput princesses you mentioned or give the link with names. Every confusion would be clear then. I am yet to find any non-Rajputana name (though there is a bundela name with roots in rajputana) Finally,personal attack shows intellectual incapacity. Ghatus (talk) 14:25, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Ghatus, 17 out of 40 is not at all well reasoned to be accepted as Authentic. It was royal arrangement so there must be other citations, cite them or I suggest to remove this statement. 202.69.15.155 (talk) 16:12, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Farukhshiyar married daughter of Ajit Singh Rathore, Akbar married daughter of Bharamall.See page 272-275, Akbar married Rajput princess of Amber, Jodhur, Jaisalmer. Akbar's son salim married princess of Amber, Gwalior, Bikaner, Jaisalmer, little tibet etc. (salim had 8 or more wives who were from Rajputs from Rajputana and other princely states.see page 127-153--MahenSingha (Talk) 14:47, 7 June 2015 (UTC)


 * That means they were all from Rajasthan, insert the word Rajputs of Rajasthan in the article then.2A03:2880:1010:DFF5:FACE:B00C:0:8000 (talk) 13:39, 7 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Please find Gwalior state is not in Rajasthan. It was ruled by Tomar Rajputs. More over the term "Rajasthan" came into existence much later. Also, the Rajputs after becoming relatives of Mughals were given charges of various locations spread through out on the Indian map ruled by Mughals, who were centred at Agra. The Rajputs of Jaipur under Mughal supremacy were made independent rulers for the region from Jaipur to Malwa.--MahenSingha (Talk) 14:47, 7 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes u r right, Gwalior was part of Rajputana not Rajasthan. and it was called Rajputana then. so insert Rajputs of Rajputana. 2A03:2880:3010:6FF0:FACE:B00C:0:1 (talk) 14:44, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, neither Gwalior nor Tibbet or Agra was ever part of Rajputana. Kindly go through the Political maps of Medieval India. The map for Rajputana:See here Gwalior was itself a state. Presently also it is in Madhya Pradesh and not in Rajasthan I suggest in place of unnecessarily pushing your POV, its better to study the facts. I find nothing objectionable in the article. Given above are just examples there are many more Rajput Mughal marriage alliances which can be quoted here. Please try to understand.--MahenSingha (Talk)  18:02, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

POV effected article
In the section Rajput kingdoms, it is written that ruling sisodia family of mewar stood apart from other Rajput clans. The editors had written this with a bad intention, because it is very obviously implying that all Rajput clans except sisodias married their daughter to Mughals!! this is indeed POV pushing. furthermore, the biased editor also rebuffs the neutral source of Britannica who use the word 'some' for 'Rajput-Mughal' marriages, but the editor says, 'a number of', so that editor's intention are visible as being full of malice. how ironic it is that the editor sitush also appears to say that there were only 18 Rajput clans out of which 17 married daughters to mughals and 1 clan sisodia stood apart. It is very well known that there were so many clans and still are. I've asked Britannica to further update on this issue. if they do so, I'll use Britannica and other secondary source to undo the biased editor Sitush. and if he or his follower user Mahamsingha tried to edit war this time, I would report them and even dispute resolution process will be initiated. 2A03:2880:3010:6FF5:FACE:B00C:0:1 (talk) 03:51, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * That is not what it says. It refers to the Sisodia claim. We've discussed all this at length recently, so it might be wise to read some of the earlier comments here. - Sitush (talk) 14:17, 5 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The source doesn't mention sisodia claim. can u put here the exact lines you are relying upon. because otherwise I disagree with you as well. Rmkop (talk) 11:14, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Please see the "Rajput Mughal marriages" section that immediately precedes this one. A whole bunch of sockpuppets have just been blocked for pushing this rubbish and I'm not inclined to explain it all in detail yet again. - Sitush (talk) 11:18, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I've seen the section "Rajput-Mughal marriages" but I'm still not satisfied. Actually there is no discussion on this point, you have mentioned this once but there is no discussion, The source you are using for this doesn't say that sisodias claim to stand apart from all other Rajput clans, then why are you writing this? and this inarguably is a POV pushing, especially because it implies that except sisodias, all other Rajput clans intermarried Mughals. Rmkop (talk) 04:07, 4 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Better? - Sitush (talk) 19:02, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * now its clear. Rmkop (talk) 08:05, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Janwar (Rajputs)
seems to be a part of broader caste Shrikanthv (talk) 11:51, 5 August 2015 (UTC)


 * There will be no need to merge unless reliable sources turn up. A last name does not make a caste, so a WP:PROD would be the usual course. - Sitush (talk) 14:18, 5 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Agree with Sitush. Rmkop (talk) 05:07, 1 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The Janwar article was deleted. - Sitush (talk) 06:36, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2015
Rajputs rose to prominence from the 9th to 12th century CE. Cite: Encyclopaedia Britannica 04:01, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

188.166.126.54 (talk) 04:01, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. -- Sam Sailor Talk! 16:16, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Allied Groups
If this blog post can be substantiated with other sources, I would suggest that a subsection on allied groups be created, "In addition to being divided into clans, the Rajputs are divided into two categories, the Rajput proper and the Girasia, who are known as Darbar in Saurashtra and Rajput in Kutch. In addition, there are also various allied groups such as the BavanGol, Gujjar , Karadia , Nadoda, Jinkara , Purbiya, Maiya and Khant,and Vantia." JoLindaw (talk) 07:47, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry dear, Your source of information is not a reliable source.--MahenSingha (Talk) 18:58, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Rajputs claims Kshatriya status in North India
Rajputs claims the Kshatriya status in Northern India

please add this phrase from the NCERT reference provided here. Only rajputs in North India claims kshatriya status...

http://ncert.nic.in/ncerts/textbook/textbook.htm?gess1=1-10

```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Invincible Chanakya (talk • contribs) 10:51, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Gurjar, Ahir and Jat all claim Kshatriya Status and also note that there are still too many more including Shudra and Muslims who are claiming.

Sources:

Refer page-205, 206, 199, 204, 203, 211, 235, 233, 198, 217, 213, 208 of the book "The Politics of the Urban Poor in Early Twentieth-Century India." Hence Rajputs are not the only claimant. --MahenSingha (Talk) 19:10, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

it's relevant
please include this, it is abviously relevant to this article.

The historian Pradeep Barua notes that the Mughal invaders had put an end to the outdated trends of Indian warfare, he further suggests that had there not been the cannons of Babar, then Rana Sanga owing to his superior forces could have achieved a victory of historical importance.

Moreover, the Mughal empire is often refered to as gunpowder empire which means it had a significant military sucesss because of newly developed firearms. Taoni (talk) 08:26, 13 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I can see why it might be relevant to the Rana Sangha article but I can't see why it is relevant to a generic article about Rajputs as a whole. He was but one. - Sitush (talk) 08:29, 13 January 2016 (UTC)


 * it is relevant to Rajputs as a whole because almost all the r ajputs were supporting rana Sanga in this contest. Taoni (talk) 08:34, 13 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Well, let's see what other people think. Preferably neutral ones rather than the meatfarms etc! It still seems to me to be a divergence, even if most Rajputs were supporting Sangha (is that even verifiable?). - Sitush (talk) 08:36, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

yes, it is verifiable. I have seen such sources.Taoni (talk) 08:42, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Canons and gunpowder may be more relevant to articles on Babur or the foundation of the Mughal empire in India rather than on an article on the Rajput community.Jonathansammy (talk) 14:05, 13 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The second paragraph is indeed more relevant to the article Mughal Empire, but first paragaraph can be included in a different style than above one but only if there is a reliable source saying most Rajputs had supported Rana Sanga. 8XM (talk) 16:17, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree, there seems no need of discussing that what warfare Mughals used or referring them gunpowder empire.--SMahenS (Talk)  17:41, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Rajput caste and geographical distrubution
The article dwells mainly on Rajput rulers and not much on the Rajput caste where traditional occupation can range from being a feudal landlord to being peasant or a soldier. Also there are numerous castes that have plausible or dubious claim to being Rajput. The article does not mention this. Also apart from one line on geographical distribution in the lead, there is nothing on this topic in the body. As the article stands today, it should be renamed Rajput royalty rather than just Rajput. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 18:11, 18 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree with you, here is something you may find interesting' a para from 1911 edition of Britannica "The Rajputs are fine, brave men, and retain the feudal instinct strongly developed. Pride of blood is their chief characteristic, and they are most punctilious on all points of etiquette. The tradition of common ancestry permits a poor Rajput yeoman to consider himself as well born as any powerful landholder of his clan, and superior to any high official of the professional classes. No race in India can boast of finer feats of arms or brighter deeds of chivalry, and they form one of the main recruiting fields for the Indian army of to-day. They consider any occupation other than that of arms or government derogatory to their dignity, and consequently during the long period of peace which has followed the establishment of the British rule in India they have been content to stay idle at home instead of taking up any of the other professions in which they might have come to the front. Those who are not zamindars have, therefore, rather dropped behind in the modern struggle for existence. As cultivators they are lazy and indifferent, and they prefer pastoral to agricultural pursuits. Looking upon all manual labour as humiliating, none but the poorest class of Rajput will himself hold the plough."


 * - 8XM (talk) 05:41, 19 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Agree with problems of emphasis on the leaders, but please note that history tends to be the stories of great men - it is often difficult to source the mundane even when they were the majority.


 * We're not going to use the 1911 EB here, nor indeed at any caste article. We shouldn't be relying even on the modern EB that much but the 1911 one is just full of the scientific racism that dominated the era. It is crap and if you see it in a caste article then I'd strongly suggest removing it. Much of the 1911 stuff that exists on Wikipedia comes from the early years of this project when people had the crazy idea of copy/pasting crap from old books and often not even citing it well. - Sitush (talk) 08:51, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, leaders are important but that should not be at expense of  ignoring history and culture of millions of ordinary Rajputs. I will work on this over the coming months to rectify the situation using reliable sources.Jonathansammy (talk) 14:21, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2016
In the third section "Spread of the Gahadvalas, Chandels, Tomars, and Chauhans", could you please convert the word 'Chandela' in the second paragraph into a hyperlink, so that their page is accessible directly?

The format will look like this, so only a pair of double brackets have to be added: Chandela

Thank You

Vegtioblade (talk) 10:06, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * ❌ - that entire section has been removed - Arjayay (talk) 10:26, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, the two remaining occurrences of Chandela are already linked, one in the text, and one in the navbox. No more linking is required. Bazj (talk) 10:31, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

My revert
My revert here is related to copyright violations/close paraphrases, unattributed copy/pastes from other Wikipedia articles, and because the material is grossly undue in an article that is supposed to be about an entire community rather than a few warriors. We have articles for the subjects mentioned and do not need to cover the stuff in such detail here. This is just more of the usual Rajput self-glorification that caused this article to be placed under special sanctions. It needs to stop. - Sitush (talk) 14:17, 3 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I concur Shrikanthv (talk) 14:50, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I do agree and I must assert that all the caste related article be treated neutrally with no POV for a particular article/caste.--SMahenS (Talk) 15:19, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Typo
Under the Subdivisions section there is a typo in the line:

"Lindsey Harlan notes that in some cases, skakhs have become powerful enough to be functionally kuls in their own right."

Here skakhs should be shakhs. It can be verified by visiting https://books.google.co.in/books?id=7HLrPYOe38gC&pg=PA31&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=shakhs&f=false.

203.122.29.234 (talk) 12:47, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Thank you. --regentspark (comment) 12:57, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Rajput politics
This is a very short article and pretty much a WP:DICDEF. It is easily merged into Rajput. Any self-identified Rajput politicians should be in List of Rajputs, which is also linked from that article. Sitush (talk) 07:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Support - Makes great sense. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Strong Support- The article with simple two lines can effectively be accomodated in the larger Rajput article.--SMahenS (Talk) 16:00, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Strong Support-There is no need of separate article for Rajput politics as it can be adjusted in the article Rajput.8XM (talk) 07:21, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ - the page Rajput politics has been merged into this article. 8XM (talk) 15:04, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2016
Raja (talk) 17:43, 31 July 2016 (UTC) Suryavanshi Bargujar Bersal Bisht Channa Chattar Gahlot Jhala Jethwa Kachwaha Khangarot Mandahar Mori Naga Nathawat Pundir Raghuvanshi Rathore Sisodia Pakhral Please add Pakhral in this clan.. thanks i hope you will take serious actions against my umble request
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.  Varun FEB2003   I am Online 07:10, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2016
Banjaras or Lambadies are one among the Agnivansha's of Rajput dynasty.

203.109.93.197 (talk) 21:48, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Please be specific about which edits you would like made.Topher385 (talk) 01:37, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Etymology of the Word Rajputra or Rajput
The Cultural and economical studies on Medieval Indian Kingdoms suggest that the word "Rajputra" or "Rajput" was a name of a military position rather than a name of any social group (or "caste" as we call it). "Rajputs" were ranked below "Ranakas" (one who received Land in Grants for an intermediary deal).


 * Please read WP:RS. Of the sources that you list, only one is reliable. - Sitush (talk) 10:40, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Please be specific about the "only one". Was there a mistake in the citation of a book by Romila Thapar?The Real Rana (talk) 11:19, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Arts/Architecture
Is it within the framework of this article to include a section regarding Rajput art and architecture? This possible addition may go under the culture/ethos section. Any thoughts or suggestions? Vagbhata2 (talk) 20:10, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok, I could only find bits and pieces of information regarding architecture. Perhaps someone else could have better luck with finding more content regarding architectural patterns of the rajput forts. However, I did find some information regarding the pictures and have added this. Vagbhata2 (talk) 21:03, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2016
The word Rajput came into existence in 8-9 Centuries but Rajputs were present from the very long time.Kshatriya (also known as warriors ) were also Rajputs who were Kings. Even Lord Rama and Lord Krishna belong to Rajput Clans like Suryavansham and Chandravansham. Please make this changes in your Article. Alarsaking (talk) 19:06, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * ❌. Please provide reliable sources to support your claims. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:09, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2016
I want to make some necessary changes into this article.Please grant me permission for same. Alarsaking (talk) 18:56, 6 December 2016 (UTC) If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 19:18, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * ❌ This is not the right page to request additional user rights.

Goth
the ancient goth of rajput are Barsar Bhatt Chuhan Rasheed Barsar (talk) 08:10, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

moving past theories and into genetics
there have been genetic studies done of the people of India which show the obvious. why then, still, is there mention of unscientific theories and guesswork about some 'foreign origin' still doing the rounds in the Rajput page?


 * The various theories are described as such, not as fact. Genetic studies are routinely problematic in caste articles: they're couched in generalised terms, are full of provisos, rely on self-identification as caste members, are usually based on very small samples, and are part of a relatively new, fast-changing science. - Sitush (talk) 21:49, 8 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Actually, I am not even sure that the point you are trying to make is of any significance. The source is not great but even if we accept it as being reliable, it has little bearing on the Origins section. Whether or not you accept there was some form of coalescence 50,000 years ago, there is little doubt that Indian society has split in numerous ways since that time and has resulted in the formation of numerous social groups/communities/castes etc. This article concerns one of those, not the generality of Indian origins. - Sitush (talk) 00:56, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

My recent revert
I re-reverted here because:


 * Chattisgarh and Jharkhand are unsourced in the entire article
 * The "for political motives" change etc is contrary to lengthy past discussions about that paragraph
 * The stuff in the Diet section was unsourced/not in the source
 * The armed forces bit is unsourced

Clear? - Sitush (talk) 19:35, 9 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Sorry I could not notice other changes.I had a different point. 8XM (talk) 09:52, 10 January 2017 (UTC)


 * But your latest change is still not an improvement. It separates a throwaway line about Akbar from an entire paragraph and adds it to a generalised paragraph about rulers in general. The paragraph you have added it to has been discussed at length on this talk page and you really shouldn't be messing about with it like this. Please revert yet again. - Sitush (talk) 10:34, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't agree that it doesn't make sense. Structure is improved indeed.8XM (talk) 11:30, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
 * You don't have to agree but you do have to get consensus to change something that has been around for quite a long time and that has been subject to past discussion. - Sitush (talk) 11:40, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

lede
"continued to dominate many regions of central and northern India until the 20th century"
 * Sitush, I do not see this expanded in the body. Please provide specific examples of "Rajput domination from the Turk/Afghan, Mughal, Maratha and the British era respectively. Most, if not all, Rajput rulers from this period were either  vassals or paid protection money (for example to the Marathas). Let us forget the islamic and Maratha rulers  and concentrate on the British. Do you agree that the British allowed the Rajputs to dominate these regions in the 19th and 20th centuries ? If being a vassal still fits the definition of domination to certain level then I am fine with it. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 19:14, 5 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I altered the lead before you posted above. - Sitush (talk) 19:19, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Mahraur Rajput
Mahraur Rajput are one of the major clan from mewaṛ and Jodhpur who ruled Muzzafarpur district of Bihar. They are immigrants from Rajasthan. Mahraurs are known for their sacrifice,bravery and commitment Raunak singh (talk) 18:37, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2017
Hello, I would like to make an edition to "religion" label. Would like to change it from "Religion: Hinduism, Islam, and Sikhism" to "Religion: Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, and Sikhism." I would like to add Jainism, as I personally am from a family for Rajput Jains from the Chauhan Clan. We speak Marwari at home. Many Marwari Jains like ourselves are of Rajput descent, and thus there are many rajputs who are jains. Here is a link to another wikipedia article that talks about Jainism and Rajputs. Go under the "Jainism" section of this page and will name some famous Rajput rulers who were jains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_liberalism_in_Rajput_courts

EDIT - Page 137 of this book and other pages around that area explain in depth how rajputs are also jains.

https://books.google.com/books?id=C8HcBvE8XJ4C&pg=PA137&lpg=PA137&dq=Rajput+jains&source=bl&ots=kWdnOQoBxM&sig=NCta3Ymiw4iw8o7L79oLzcIbjvI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiHq-_Z4JLTAhVLxWMKHQALBj0Q6AEISzAI#v=onepage&q=Rajput%20jains&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by AMadhani99 (talk • contribs) 16:32, 7 April 2017 (UTC) AMadhani99 (talk) 01:16, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --  Dane talk  03:06, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2017
Please add maharashtra in states under Rajput. Renowned personalities of Rajput community from Maharashtra are given below 1 Chhatrapati Shivajiraje Bhosale Historic warriors 2 Santaji Ghorpade Historic warriors 4. Fatesinhraje Bhonsale 3 Pratibhatai Patil -:President of India 4 Padmasinh Patil -: MLA 5 Ranajagjitsingh Patil 6 R O Patil MLA 7 Kishorappa Patil MLA

Huge population of Rajput community found in maharashtra Nppnsk (talk) 08:35, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  12:02, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

OBC Status of Rajputs
I have noticed that although Rajputs are a forward community or caste in India but a few sections among Rajputs are listed under Other Backward sections in few States such as in Delhi and Karnataka: http://www.delhi.gov.in/wps/wcm/connect/071ace004fc0691e9e8eff2402db5dfd/OBC_LIST.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

Please see at S. No. 50, 63 & 64. The list clearly declares the Raya Tanwars (at S. No. 50) (Community of Shri Karan Singh Tanwar, an ex-MLA of BJP a Rajput from south-West Delhi), Rawat Rajputs (at S. NO. 63) and Raikwar (at S No. 64) as OBC.

Karnataka State's list of Backward castes: http://backwardclasses.kar.nic.in/PDF/Caste/GB-Caste7.PDF This file has two lists, S No 81 in the second list clearly mentions the name of Rajaput caste as one of the backward castes.

There are several other examples where Rajputs are listed as a backward caste or class:

in the Central List of OBC's in Andhra Pradesha they are listed at S No. 1 and 5. http://www.obcwelfare.com/Pdf/andhrapradesh.pdf in the Central List of OBC's in Maharashtra State at S No. 184 and 193. http://www.bcmbcmw.tn.gov.in/obc/faq/maharashtra.pdf

Apart from the lists provided above, the Rajputs are demanding OBC Quota in the following states: Uttar Pradesh http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rajputs-in-UP-seek-OBC-tag-for-quota/articleshow/51486459.cms Rajasthan http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/rajputs-demanding-reservation-threaten-to-disrupt-chintan-shivir/article4313115.ece Gujarat http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/after-patels-kshatriya-rajputs-take-to-streets-for-obc-reservation/

All these lists are taken from the websites of their respective state government.

As mentioned in the introduction sections of Gurjars and Jats that they are under OBC list in few states, it becomes obvious to insert the similar information in the introduction section of the Rajputs. If, this suggestions is not worth taking into account then it is requested to remove the same from the introduction sections of Gurjars and Jats as it is just an effort to derogate these two communities on the basis of caste. The Real Rana (talk) 06:39, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2017
Please remove Islam from Religion, Rajputs were never having Islam as religion. Yaduveers (talk) 05:58, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 17:28, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Ordinary Rajput
The article has hardly anything on ordinary Rajputs of today The lede talks about Rajputs being present in different states of India but this is not expanded in the body.There is nothing on their life such such urban / rural, literacy, occupation, adherence to old culture practice etc.There also no mention of Rajput muslims in this article. Most of the article seems to be on history of old Rajput ruling clans.Should there be a separate article on ordinary Rajputs.Please comment.Thanks Jonathansammy (talk) 14:10, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * No obvious need for a separate article - just expand this one and fork if it gets too big etc. We have an article for Muslim Rajputs. - Sitush (talk) 14:22, 5 September 2017 (UTC)