Talk:Ram (album)/Archive 1

Clarification
This article says it is an attack on the Beatles and John Lennon, but it does not explain how it is related to either. For instance what does ca-a-ak signify? What does a dog barking mean?

Whoever posted that should explain rather than think their audience or readers know what they mean.--Sp0 (talk) 00:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that part of the article is pretty clear, and reflects the evidence. On the other hand, I don't know what you mean by "ca-a-ak"... John Cardinal (talk) 22:54, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The problem is that a Wikipedia article is not supposed to speak for itself. I see some of the offending text has been removed, but the article still needs considerable cites - by now McCartney himself has done a large number of interviews, and if he has not once agreed on the "attack on Lennon" theory by now, it is opinion and opinion only - a credible source should be cited for a "critics such as (name here) believed..." Lennon's "beliefs" also need cites. (Cites are needed throughout, in fact.) 98.232.58.2 (talk) 02:27, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:RamMcCartneyBackCover.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:36, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Is the song title "Ram On" a reference to his old stage name, Paul Ramon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.89.224.69 (talk) 12:47, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Citations notice
I've taken the liberty of removing the "lacks citations" notice from the top; with the previous edits addressing the complaint about the feud with Lennon and the additional citations I was able to add, I think it was no longer necessary. If there's anything in the article that anyone feels still needs a citation, say so here or add a "citation needed" note and I should be able to find a cite. Ram on. Brettalan (talk) 04:12, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Changed Georgiy Starostin's rating
I've taken the liberty of changing Georgiy Starostin's rating from 10/10 to 14/15. He always grades the best album by a given artist 10, so that doesn't really mean all that much - the overall rating is far more significant and analogous to conventional reviews. This is already done in McCartney (album), for instance.

Budsbd (talk) 10:51, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter: consensus is that he's a non-notable reviewer, and the entry was deleted.  R ad io pa th y  •talk•  22:30, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

What should come next in chronology
Someone (anonymous IP) changed the "next" in the chronology from Thrillington to Wild Life. Yeepsi changed it back saying Wild Life is a Wings album. (That's what was meant, anyway. B^) That's true, but most people consider Wings to be more or less an extension of McCartney's solo career. ISTM that the next album that featured Paul singing most of the lead vocals--and Linda, who is co-credited on Ram, singing the balance, not to mention the same drummer--makes more sense as the follow-up than an orchestral album which Paul doesn't really play on, anyway. I'd say to go with "Wild Life" in that spot and just note "with Wings". What do others think? (I know that chronologies for other McCartney releases also keep solo and Wings stuff separate, at least in some cases. Is there a place for a more general discussion of this?) Brettalan (talk) 20:15, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thrillington, as per it's Macca, not Wings. Yeepsi (Talk to me!) 20:43, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Paul McCartney's post-Beatles output is generally regarded as a single body of work and the chronology should reflect that. While his solo career has gone through several phases, how the work was credited, whether as Paul McCartney, Paul & Linda McCartney, Wings, Paul McCartney & Wings, the Country Hams, Percy Thrillington, or the Fireman, was entirely a matter of his choosing. In reality, Wings was not much more than a backing group the same as the various unnamed backing groups he has employed since 1989. Piriczki (talk) 22:14, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Some articles have two album chronologies that could also be used here: one for Paul McCartney and one for the group Wings. Something similar was done for the chronology for Richard Thompson and Linda Thompson who released as a duo while they were married but their last album Shoot Out The Lights shows their separate chronologies after that album. -- J. Wong (talk) 00:22, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Reissue
I have removed the information regarding a 2012 reissue of the album, as that does not appear to be accurate. I cannot find anything online referencing this, in fact the only relevant article is one stating that Paul does not have any plans to reissue Ram.

Are there any sources where the author can cite this information? It simply appears to be speculation/assumption based on the fact that McCartney I and II were re-released last year.

Ramone
One of the aliases Paul McCartney used was Paul Ramone. Has anyone noticed that the song Ram on is a play on Ramone? Montalban (talk) 23:55, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

What's the next album?
Ram is an album by Paul and Linda McCartney. They both became members of Wings. The thing that Paul's next album is Wild Life (Wings debut album) and Linda's is Wide Prairie doesn't make sense. On other Paul's solo albums Wings' albums are are not mentioned in previous/next sections (see Thrillington and McCartney II). Twistandshout28 (talk) 18:12, 27 August 2014 (UTC)


 * You've got a point, and it's long bothered me how from Ram, one can't follow the chronology on to Wild Life (or okay, via Thrillington and on to Wild Life). Officially, as a solo chronology, it should be Thrillington or McCartney II – sure. But I don't think that's at all useful to readers, when most people (I imagine) will know that a whole series of Wings albums came throughout the 1970s. Right now, I think it's wrong that through the infobox chronology it's not possible to travel from Ram/Thrillington through Wings, and then out from Back to the Egg to McCartney II – that's McCartney's output, with or without the Wings moniker. Same situation with George Harrison: all his biographers and Beatles authors treat the Wilburys albums within his career progression (just as McCartney's solo stuff and Wings' output are grouped as one outside of Wikipedia).
 * My suggestion here, and not just because it partly avoids the immediate problem, is to remove the Linda chronology altogether. Meaning no disrespect to her memory, but really, she can't be said to be a recording artist. That probably sounds cruel of me … JG66 (talk) 18:45, 27 August 2014 (UTC)


 * First off, I think there's no question that the Wings albums are property part of Paul's chronology. He was the main songwriter, lead singer, and creative voice on their albums, and half the time they were credited as "Paul McCartney and Wings". Look up McCartney's solo albums at any reliable source, and the Wings albums (even the ones where Paul's name doesn't come before the band's) are included. See http://www.allmusic.com/artist/paul-mccartney-mn0000029884/discography http://www.popmatters.com/post/172604-eleven-essential-paul-mccartney-albums/ http://www.rollingstone.com/music/pictures/paul-mccartney-best-of-the-solo-years-20120206 for examples.


 * So, why not treat Linda's presence in Wings the same way? Well, for one thing, she only sang lead on a handful of tracks through Wings' career, and seldom was a leader in any other way. Secondly, what's the point in having another chronology if it doesn't lead anywhere different from the first one? So, if people want to get rid of her chronology entirely, I'm fine with that, or it could stay and lead to Wide Prairie. But having it lead to Wild Life would just make it superfluous. And Wild Life just isn't a Linda McCartney album--although that raises the point that Ram really isn't, either. Brettalan (talk) 20:01, 27 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Just as the Paul McCartney discography article contains all of McCartney's releases chronologically, so should the chronology section of the individual album articles. It is important to remember that the members of Wings were employees of McCartney and that all of these records were made under McCartney's recording contract with EMI, and later Columbia. McCartney could have put whatever name he chose to on these records. For instance, he considered putting out Band on the Run under just "Paul McCartney" as evidenced by the name on the spine of the jacket but changed it to "Paul McCartney & Wings." Similarly, he has expressed regret that he didn't release Electric Arguments under his own name instead of the Fireman. The point is that these are all McCartney records whatever name he chooses to put on them. And a separate, two-album chronology for Linda McCartney seems rather pointless. Piriczki (talk) 20:31, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Professional reviews
Mojo and Q reviews are unverifiable as per the internet. Is this acceptable?

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.169.57.50 (talk) 07:12, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's fine. As with many of the best books on music, those magazine's reviews are simply not available online – but it doesn't mean we shouldn't use them. JG66 (talk) 07:35, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101228034713/http://infodisc.fr/Album_M.php to http://infodisc.fr/Album_M.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090106134323/http://www.infodisc.fr/B-CD_1971.php to http://www.infodisc.fr/B-CD_1971.php

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External links modified
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Tremolo
Who plays the tremolo passage (ascending stepwise partially up a diatonic scale) in “Monkberry Moon Delight”?2600:6C44:117F:F459:4097:B6B:70BA:6BEA (talk) 23:26, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Admiral Halsey
Who composed the trumpet solo in "Admiral Halsey"?--Bernardwebb357 (talk) 18:29, 7 November 2021 (UTC)