Talk:Ramdasia/Archive 1

38.108.250.130 Edit
38.108.250.130/74.102.169.136 is spamming the page with unrelated link.

74.102.169.136 : Link are not unrelated - See all citations at bottom of page. You have been banned many times for doing your deletions and accusations against users on this page, and you are doing the same thing again.

@ Bal537[Chamar] (38.108.250.130/74.102.169.136) It was due to vandalism by you that Gwen Glen locked this topic. I am surprised why he unlocked this topic.It was your id Bal537 which was banned due to which you don't come here with this id anymore. If I were banend then I wouldn't have been able to edit this section.I am a Ramdasia Sikh and you a Ravidasia chamar who should have no right to edit a section to which you don't belong to. You also goto Jatt section and do the same. Stop posting your Chamar Advertizement link here. Ravinder121 (talk) 10:16, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

--- This is Wikipedia, it belongs to no-one and this page does not belong to you. You need to provide verifiable sources to back your up your claim that Ramdasia's are not Chamars. There are plenty of verifiable sources posted in this page that show that Ramdasia's are just another name for Chamar. Again don't accuse other user's otherwise I'll have to you report you to the moderators again and get you banned.

Also, it is against Wikipedia policy to delete the TALK page text (sources and citations) posted by other authors. You have been warned and banned before for doing this before. I am reporting you to the moderators.

Bal537 (talk)bal537

Bal537 (talk)bal537


 * The page was made by Navdeep55 on 20 March 2007 and you Bal537 came on Aug 2008 and edited the text and added that Ramdasias are chamars. I came after you and reverted back the false information provided by you. You gave link references and I replied to your link references in talk page that you delete and added more link which i reverted back.


 * What is the point in deleting Ramdasia Sikh Gotras and adding chamar link to it. You also did the same in Jatt and khatirs sections where you projected them too  as chamar. You say Ramdasia and Ravidasias are same which is false. You can goto the most popular Matrimonial websites :-


 * http://shaadi.com/


 * http://punjabimatrimony.com/


 * Both have separate section for Ramdasia and Ravidasia . The Ramadsia Gotras are aslo different than Ravidasia Gotras.


 * Ramdasia Gotras: Nar, Badhan, Rajju, Rattu, Heer


 * Ravidasia Gotras: chumer,Chumber,Singhmar,Sheemar,Jassal ,Jassy Kainth.


 * The thing you are doing is the thing that most Ravidasias do ie; pretend to be Ramdasia and then spread false info that both are same. This can be see on matrimony websites where for eg : kainth and other listed Ravidasia castes people add themselves into Ramdasia section.


 * You give references to chamar books and chamar websites and no neutral source that supports your view.


 * The Fact Remains that : Ramdasia are weavers(Julahas) whereas Ravidasias are chamars(Leather tainers)and both are not same at all.Ravinder121 (talk) 15:10, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

--

You don't own this page, wikipedia is about reliable sources and links. I have posted reliable sources and links, yet you ignore them. Also, I keep on deleting your "gotras" because they are unsourced and also matrimonial sites that you post are not reliable. Infact, in the same matrimonial sites, Chamars are classified as Ramdasia and Ravidassia.

And please do not engage in personal attacks. Nobody is pretending to be anybody. Personal attacks are against wikipedia policy and you have been reported to the moderators.

And just because occupations are different, doesn't mean Ramdasia origin is not Chamar. The links I posted also support this.

FYI - Badhan, Heer and Raju are also Chamar Gotras. Just check the 'matrimonial' sites you yourself posted.  ALSO DO NOT DELETE ANYTHING ON MY PERSONAL TALK PAGE - This is considered VANDALISM according to wikipedia policy 13:22, 22 May 2010 (UTC)bal537

Bal537 (talk)bal537 —Preceding undated comment added 17:11, 22 May 2010 (UTC).

Bal537's Edit
User Bal537 is vandalizing wikipedia by posting false information.

12.182.80.222 (talk) 19:41, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

@Mr Bal Ramdasia's ancient profession was Weaving not leather making which is the ancient profession of Ravidasias, Chamars. Large number of Ravidasias call themselves as Ramdasias because there is stigma attached to Ravidasias but if you look at their caste certificate it clearly says Ravidasia and not Ramdasia and then they try to project that Ramdasia and Ravidasia are same.

Moreover Chamars(Ravidasias) still believe in modern day gurus and goto Sant Ravidasia's temple where Ramdasias never go. Ravinder121 (talk) 19:43, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

And what about your far fetched comments like Jats are also chamars.


 * Please sign your posts with 4 tildes ( ~ ). Without citations to reliable sources, there's little to talk about here. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:28, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

July 25,2009
User Bal537 is an imposter and is posting false information and doing vandalism.

This user has recently made edit using fake proxy I.P address 12.182.80.222 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.178.174.104 (talk) 21:01, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

'''I have provided plenty of proofs. Just to a google search on "Ramdasia Chamar" and you will find countless links showing that Ramdasia's are Chamar.''' Bal537 (talk) 20:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)bal537

July 25, 2009
User 12.182.80.222 is a vandal.

He is posting bogus information on various sections including Ramdasia.

Some of the various False Facts posted on Chamar Section:-

a) Baluch Mochis and Chamars are also classed as Jat meaning camel rider.

Jat is a separate caste and has nothing to do with Chamars or Ravidasia. Chamars are impersonating themself as Jats (Farmer), Mehra (Khatris), Chopras (Khatris).

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_people ( Clear mention of Jat) Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatri (Clear mention of Khatri Clan which includes Mehra) Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopra (Punjabi Khatri)

I would request Chamars to stop impersonating other castes and avoid posting BOGUS information.

If other castes are not updating information on wikipedia, it gives no right to any vandal to distort facts and create bogus information to misguide others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Singh online121 (talk • contribs) 21:44, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

That was not posted by me and the poster has provided a valid link.

Bal537 (talk) 01:19, 26 July 2009 (UTC)ba537

July 24,2009
The official Constitution of India lists Ramdasia caste as a Chamars. How do you explain that? Here is the link: .

Castes and Tribes of Punjab by G.W Briggs written in 18th century lists Ramdasia as Chamars. How do you explain that? 

A research paper on scheduled castes of Punjab: Showing that Ramdasia's are Chamars 

Official Constitution of India: Scheduled Castes Amendment 

Please review provided links that proves and validates what I have written.

01:25, 26 July 2009 (UTC)Bal537 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bal537 (talk • contribs)   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ravinder121 (talk • contribs)

25 July 2009

 * Your 1st link does not open
 * Your 2nd link is a book by a Britisher during British Rule in 1886.In those times another book was written by a Britisher calling Guru Gobind Singh and Sikhs as robbers because the only information he got was from moughal's text and without verifying any facts he wrote a book based on the references from moughal invaders.


 * Your 3rd link is again a book ,this time by Harish k Puri which extensively cites text from moughal invaders and British invaders ,without clearing how they came up with that as it does not cite any proof.


 * Your 4th link only says that all these castes are under reserved section which is true but this certainly doesn't mean all these castes are same and all are chamars


 * Finally, you have also mentioned in other sections that Jats ,Brahmin ,Kshatriya are also chamars which is clearly far fetched and totally false .Ravinder121 (talk) 10:04, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Proof that Ramdasia's are Chamars =

The official Constitution of India lists Ramdasia caste as a Chamars. How do you explain that? Here is the link: http://lawmin.nic.in/legislative/election/volume%201/rules%20&%20order%20under%20Constitution/THE%20CONSTITUTION%20%20(JAMMU%20%20AND%20KASHMIR)%20SCHEDULED%20CASTES%20ORDER,%201956.

Castes and Tribes of Punjab by G.W Briggs written in 18th century lists Ramdasia as Chamars. How do you explain that? http://books.google.com/books?id=1QmrSwFYe60C&pg=RA1-PA148&lpg=RA1-PA148&dq=ramdasia+chamar&source=bl&ots=qKY961jfa8&sig=wCi0nGW-9D0ddQ_Qio_OaPt_HyU&hl=en&ei=J7xoSvfVII6GMaC89M8M&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8

A research paper on scheduled castes of Punjab: Showing that Ramdasia's are Chamars http://www.sikhspectrum.com/112007/scheduled.pdf

Official Constitution of India: Scheduled Castes Amendment http://www.helplinelaw.com/docs/THE%20CONSTITUTION%20(SCHEDULED%20CASTES)%20ORDER%20(AMENDMENT)%20ACT,%202002

http://www.sikhspectrum.com/112007/scheduled.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=1QmrSwFYe60C&pg=RA1-PA148&lpg=RA1-PA148&dq=ramdasia+chamar&source=bl&ots=qKY961jfa8

&sig=wCi0nGW-9D0ddQ_Qio_OaPt_HyU&hl=en&ei=J7xoSvfVII6GMaC89M8M&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8

http://www.helplinelaw.com/docs/THE%20CONSTITUTION%20(SCHEDULED%20CASTES)%20ORDER%20(AMENDMENT)%20ACT,%202002

http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Chamar

http://books.google.com/books?id=42gEmX3eGrgC&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=ramdasia+chamar&source=bl&ots=HIetak52Nr&sig=8X4

24iX499HVRrN0swjrkA5fe78&hl=en&ei=C7xoSqyFDYvEMMDt6c8M&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

http://lawmin.nic.in/legislative/election/volume%201/rules%20&%20order%20under%20Constitution/THE%20CONSTITUTION%20%

20(JAMMU%20%20AND%20KASHMIR)%20SCHEDULED%20CASTES%20ORDER,%201956.pdf

http://www.global.ucsb.edu/punjab/journal_14_2/in_remembrance.pdf

http://www.joshuaproject.net/peopctry.php?rop3=113559&rog3=PK

12.182.80.222 (talk) 19:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)Chamars —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bal537 (talk • contribs)