Talk:Randy Savage/Archive 1

Baseball
On an SIU forum we have been discussing the possibility of Randy Savage having been a baseball player at Southern Illinois University and for a Cardinals affiliated minor league team. It seems that the source cited is quite shaky and is not really reliable. No one posting on our forum is even familiar with a rumor that he attended SIU or played on the ball team. This needs to be pulled or it needs to have a much better citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bokonon82 (talk • contribs) 20:45, 26 June 2008 (UTC) I played Little League with Randy and Lanny. I don't recall whether or not Randy attended SIU. He definitely did not graduate from there in 1971 as he graduated high school in 1970. He did sign with the Cardinals as a catcher, although he never was a starting catcher in high school, which was undoubtedly due to his dad's influence. He never made it to even Louisville, much less St. Louis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.56.38.67 (talk) 03:26, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

According to baseball reference, Poffo played for the Gulf Coast Cardinals in 1971-73, for Class A Orangeburn in 1973, and for Tampa in the Florida State League in 1974.

Keith Hernandez did play in the Cardinals organization at the same time, but always at a higher level, never on the same team as Poffo. That reference should be eliminated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.230.110.2 (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

The SIU reference is shaky. He would have been 18 when he graduated. Plus, the page states he played MiLB after high school. So what did he do? Play baseball or graduate from SIU in a year? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.110.164.228 (talk) 15:32, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

"He was placed in the minor leagues to develop," is awful phrasing. Every baseball player plays in the minors to develop. The phrase makes is seem like it was something unusual to have a signee play in the minors. The baseball section needs to be cleaned up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.110.164.228 (talk) 11:53, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Bonesaw
Anybody else think the inclusion of the bonesaw line from spiderman being adapted by Clarkson University is self advertising? I think we should remove the link to bonesaw.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.153.221.208 (talk) 22:54, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I wonder why Bonesaw McGraw is being listed as one of his ring names. That was a character he played in a movie. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.157.159.183 (talk) 00:22, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

USWA
Savage winning the USWA title from Jerry Lawler should probably be included in the text since that was the Macho mans most important match in a otherwise uneventful 1993.

The Ramones?
Someone listed "The Ramones" as one of his names used. This is silly, or else it needs citation. I have removed it until it can be verified.

Birthplace
One site says that he is born in ohio state, new mexico ... many others also say that Columbus, Ohio is his birthplace. Anyone know for sure where his birthplace is? Amchow78 20:29, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

also, it says that he died june 2010. right now it is march 2010. he died in the future? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.112.200.92 (talk) 13:24, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

twin boys
it says him and liz had twin boys this aint true but i won,t edit it someone else can.

I edited that for you. Why wouldn't you edit yourself? Just wondering. I've never read anywhere that Randy and Liz had any children, but then again wrestlers are very private so they may have a child. User:MgTurtle May13,2006.

For what it's worth, Savage said on an episode of the radio show Loveline that he has no children.Wayman975 20:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC) hey Randy i believe has a son and sleep with linda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.142.91.101 (talk) 22:42, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Catchphrase
His catchphrase is given as "Ohhhhhhhhhh, yeahhhhhhhhhhhh!". The comma seems inconsistent with his diction.

"DIG IT!" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.148.6 (talk) 23:12, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

His early years.
There seems to be no mention of his early years with Atlantic Grand Prix Wrestling in Nova Scotia, Canada where he wrestled with his brother Leapin Lanny alongside the Cuban Assassin Man Mountain Dean, Leo Burke, Killer Karl Kroup, and more in the late 70's. My father forced us to watch it on TV as a kid. Here is a link to some matches from that time including Lanny as well. He was a really impressive character even then, although a lot smaller.

http://www.newscott.newscott.com/history/abc/novascotia3.htm

Mark

According to this he graduated college at the age of 18? Maybe he started in 71 but he couldn't have graduated thenn

Removed POV
I removed this part (whilst not logged in.)


 * It should be noted, however, that there is no evidence or reason to believe that this rumor is true, other than Savage's strained relationship with Vince McMahon. One would also have to wonder why McMahon hadn't informed police of the incident, instead of just simply holding a grudge against Savage.

As it’s pure speculation on the part of the editor that added it. ~ IICATSII punch the keys 08:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Is Randy Savage black?
According to the One-drop theory article, Randy Savage is "considered black"! Can anyone familiar with Savage confirm whether he is generally considered to be black? 217.34.39.123 14:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * In a 2005 interview with a wrestling-based website (wrestlingepicenter.com), Randy's brother Lanny claimed that their father, Angelo Poffo is half-African-American, half-Italian, but always "passed for white." If Lanny's being truthful, then the Poffos could be considered bi-racial.24.187.134.57 00:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes his father was biracial black n white I remember seeing his pics —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.114.71 (talk) 08:45, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So you're saying he "looks" bi-racial? Sorry, I think Wikipedia needs more than that.24.187.128.89 (talk) 22:57, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

My mom grew up with Angelo in the same neighborhood in Downers Grove and went to grade school, junior high and high school with him. I can absolutely guarantee that he is not black at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.56.38.67 (talk) 03:33, 19 April 2010 (UTC) If Lanny is correct then that means they are multi-racial or multi-ethnic. This "One Drop" nonsense is a holdover from pre-21st century American bigotry.MARK VENTURE (talk) 00:56, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Vandalism?
It seems someone has edited the page to say that Randy Savage's real name is Radovan Savic, and that he was born in Serbia. This simple isn't true. Can someone fix it please? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.161.52.208 (talk) 05:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

There was some recent vandalism to the Early Life section (Born in Pakistan, terrorist father), which was reverted properly by Wutizevrybudylookingat?. The following day, GoodDamon edited, restoring the vandalism, and adding to it (insertion of the word "greedy"). I've reverted back to the last version before this all started. "- EricJay 19:15, 8 October 2007 (UTC)"

Umm....section entitled "Jack The Snake Roberts"....I think the name was JAKE?

"Spider friend" might be vandalism too? I am quite sure he called himself "The Spider" and not the "Spider Friend"... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.248.167.89 (talk) 07:04, 25 November 2007 (UTC) I grew up with Randy in Downers Grove IL as far as i know he is White —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.142.91.101 (talk) 22:32, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Birthday
Randy Savage is younger than Hulk Hogan, he said that himself in 2003. If you check obsessedwithwrestling.com you 'll see that it is true. So he was born in 1953 not in 1952. He 's few months younger than Hulk. I believe Randy was born in 1952. I was born in 1951 and played Little League with Randy and Lanny. When I was playing as a 12 year old, Randy was playing as an 11 and Lanny as a 9. Who would say they were older than they really are in sports? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.56.38.67 (talk) 03:36, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Finishing and Signature Moves
I looked over this subsection and thought it looked nice, but shouldn't the spike piledriver be included? I haven't watched a Randy Savage match in a while, but I was quite certain that that was one of his main signature moves. Thanks. Cale 22:34, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

savage didn't use the piledriver, or really an other "moves" aside from schoolboy roll-ups and body slams. his offense was mostly punches, knees, and axehandles.also, he would refer to his finisher as "the big elbow" in interviews, so i thought that should be in quotes on his movelist. ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Poofyllama (talk • contribs) 05:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

>>>savage didn't use the piledriver

BZZZT!!! See my comment below about the WWE driving systemic bias in these Wikipedia pages. Savage used the piledriver extensively prior to joining the WWF. In fact, perhaps the one thing he's most famous for pre-WWF was when he drove Ricky Morton through a table with one. This was years before the "first time" when Terry Funk did it to Ric Flair. 137.229.65.221 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC). Savage used the pile driver throughout wcw on one accation he did it to sting in 1998 at uncensored. also to a ref in 98, i have witnessed it in many accations and would agree that it should be a signature move. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.149.77.237 (talk) 04:23, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

King of the Hill
Randy Savage provided the voice of one of Bill's personal trainers on the newest episode of King of the Hill. Someone add the info for me?

Millionaire's Club?
Was Savage ever a part of the Millionaire's club? I can't find any evidence - and I certainly dont' remember him in WCW at all post-1999. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Henry10-7 (talk • contribs) 14:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

No, Savage was never part of the Millionaire's Club. He was gone before Bischoff came back. Vince Russo hate a lot of the older guys because he claimed 1) they were lazy workers and 2) they wouldn't put over young guys. Savage was actually a pretty good worker and he was willing to put over the young guys, but his contract expired in August '99 shortly after Road Wild and Russo chose not to renew it. Savage appeared once in WCW after that. There was a 20 man battle royale on an episode of Nitro during the New Blood/Millionaire's Club feud and a mysterious limo was shown parked outside all night. At the end of the night, the battle royale was held, and things quickly broke down into chaos. Savage was then shown emerging from the limo. He came out and helped the Millionaire's Club. He never appeared on WCW television again after that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.22.245 (talk) 21:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Although he was able to work good matches, savage needed to plan them out so he often didn't deliver a great performance on short notice, and he was known to be a bit lax when doing a non-televised/house show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Poofyllama (talk • contribs) 05:14, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Managers
Steve Cooper and Angelo Poffo should be added under "managers". probably Jimmy Hart as well since Savage was a member of his "First Family" for a while. Elizabeth died at age 42

The Reason Crush Turned Heel
The reason Crush turned heel is because when Savage was commentating on Monday Night Raw, Crush had a match against Yokozuna and Yokozuna hit Crush with multiple bonzai drops and Savage took too long making the save. Crush confronted Savage on why it took so long for Savage to make the save, thus starting a feud between the two. The backstory behind the Savage/Crush feud is incomplete or no-exsistent for that matter. I would add it to the article, but I would like to source it first. Mr. C.C. (talk) 18:07, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Lanny: Full or half-brother?
In the past, I've always heard that Randy and Lanny Poffo were half-brothers, sharing a father (Angelo). As of late (and in this article), they are simply referred to as brothers, with no difference in parentage. Which is more accurate?24.187.134.112 (talk) 23:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC) I first met Randy when he was 9 and Lanny was 7. This was in Downers Grove. They both favor their mother. When I first read this comment, I thought the writer was going to say that they shared a mother, which they obviously did. If they also shared a father, which I belive, it was Ange. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.56.38.67 (talk) 03:41, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Residence
Somebody deleted my post about residence.

Recently
It says here that he's in Sarasota, but in late 2007 I did work for him at his house in Seminole, FL where he permanently resides. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.186.196.174 (talk) 19:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Article states: "When Phil Hellmuth did an interview on Sirius Satellite Radio recently, he said that Savage will be on the next season of VH1's The Surreal Life along with Playboy Playmate Tina Marie Jordan and rock musician Peter Steele."

'Recently' is a word that has no business in an encyclopedia. 'Next Season' has no business in the article either. We need specifics - otherwise how will anyone know when to change the entry when the words are no longer applicable? 69.215.147.90 (talk) 02:49, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Family Guy
I'm fairly certain that Randy Savage did NOT provide his voice for the episode The Cleveland-Loretta Quagmire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mastertechnician (talk • contribs) 09:59, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Filmography add
I noticed something the other day and i checked the credits to make sure... he appeared in the first Spiderman film as the wrestler called "Bonecrusher" i think who fights Peter Parker in that cage... it is indeed Randy Savage i checked the credits it's definatly worth putting on his Filmography but i'm not sure of the name if it's BoneCrusher but i think it is, it will need verifying so i won't edit it... it's definatly him though... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.194.156 (talk) 14:11, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Finishers
On the Randy Savage DVD (long overdue BTW), he used brass nucks to beat Tito Santana for the IC belt. He also used them against Steamboat during their feud. Should that be noted under finishers? "Power of the punch"? 65.43.96.3 (talk) 12:53, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

COME BACK  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.141.21.154 (talk) 06:22, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Place of birth
The info box says that he was born in Downers Grove, IL, but the paragraph at the bottom of the article says that he was born in Columbus, OH. I'm guessing that maybe he was born in Columbus and then moved to Downers Grove, but someone else who knows for sure should probably be the one to make the change. Tim D (talk) 14:40, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Billed from
Speaking of Downers Grove, Illinois, I see that someone recently removed the "billed from" entry I added many months ago. Randy most certainly was billed from there back in Memphis days, and perhaps back in ICW as well, though I've seen very little tape from that promotion, mostly from its latter days.

In most cases, professional wrestling pages on Wikipedia appear to suffer from their own unique form of systemic bias. Namely, anything not matching the official WWE version of professional wrestling history seems to be missing from the page. Is the problem here a lack of a reference on my part, or merely ignorance of history on your part? Trust me, a reference can be found to Savage having been billed from there, but it may take a little more effort than the usual Google search form of "research." 137.229.65.221 (talk) 22:45, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Since I wrote this, I noticed that numerous pro wrestler biography articles have been edited, it appears selectively so as to make it appear that wwe.com is the only source which matters inasfar as that information goes. However, in general, information on his career prior to entering the WWF falls short, at least compared to what's known.


 * There is something specific I wanted to address. The autobiography of Bill Watts mentions his role in convincing Savage to abandon the family's feud with Jarrett & Co. and join with them.  As background to this, he mentions an incident in which Savage pistol-whipped Bill Dundee.  There is a clip on YouTube of a 1980 match in the WMC studio between Dundee and Paul Ellering.  Dundee is wearing trunks with "MACHO MAN" across the back, just like Savage.  Makes me wonder if this is something worth looking into or not to add to the article.RadioKAOS (talk) 07:41, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Managers

 * Angelo Poffo (Only accompanined Savage to a few matches and was never officially his manager)
 * Miss Elizabeth (his first manager)
 * Jimmy Hart (He was Hulk Hogan's manager not Savage)
 * Sensational Sherri / Queen Sherri (his second manager)
 * Gorgeous George (his third manager)
 * Team Madness (Gorgeous George, Madusa, and Miss Madness) (Madusa and Miss Madness were Gorgeous George's trainers, not Savage's managers)

He's had a total of 3 managers. Seafood85 09:59, 12, May 2011

Repeated vandalism; lock please!
I'd like to propose that the article be locked to some extent. Vandalism in the aftermath of reports of his death is just disgusting!ParkKimLim (talk) 17:35, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Someone took care of it. In general, please make these requests at WP:RFPP so lots of admins will notice it rather than just the ones (if any) who happen to read the affected page. DMacks (talk) 18:03, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Education
The article states he graduated from SIU in 1971. That would mean he graduated from college at the age of 19, the same year, according to the Downers Grove High School article, he graduated from high school. 96.35.160.223 (talk) 18:26, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Looking for refs (that don't simply quote WP) for the dates. Though, the college date does seem it could be accurate, assuming he went for a two year degree (based on his birth month, finishing high school at 17, and thus the two year degree at 19). R OBERT M FROM LI &#124; TK/CN 20:00, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Death
He had a heart attack while driving. heart attack --Gokudbzgohan (talk) 22:22, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

video games
This might be asking for too much, but wasn't his likeness in a video game?--Rajpaj (talk) 00:33, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

NWO member (1997–1998)
This is a small ammendment to the information already posted. Savage wrestled the match against Sting for the world title, in which he won the WCW title with a knee that had already sustained a torn ACL. It didn't happen during the match, as reported in the wiki. If someone could update that, it'd be appreciated. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by HBM23 (talk • contribs) 09:27, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from PriceJ85, 20 May 2011
Professional wrestler Kevin Nash tweeted: "I lost a close friend today. If anybody in heaven is wondering who the cat in the ugly cowboy hat is it's Randy. Love you Bro. Never another."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/05/20/pro-wrestler-randy-macho-man-savage-dies-car-accident-report-says/#ixzz1MuqBKD9z

PriceJ85 (talk) 18:16, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Confirmed: http://www.vancouversun.com/Macho+Randy+Savage+killed+accident/4817554/story.html 67.193.96.49 (talk) 19:36, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


 * . Nothing notable there. WWGB (talk) 12:17, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

machoman, com
It now redirects to gorgeousgeoreenterprises. com ..... the intro is none other than macho lol. 66.108.211.43 (talk) 00:38, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't believe his first name is really Randall
I don't believe that Randy Savage's first name is actually Randall. I think that Randall is a Wikipedia vandalism that occured many years ago and was never noticed. I believe that the vandalism was done around July 2005 (I am feeling a bit lazy at the moment and don't want to dive through the article history). I forget the results exactly, but a while back I did some Google research into it, and the results seemed to be that there was no evidence supporting "Randall" as his first name from any of a variety of search terms ("Randall Poffo", "Randall Mario Poffo", etc). The only things that seem to come up bearing the name Randall either were published after the vandalism took place or are on dynamic sites that may state an older page creation date but use dynamic modern content. The name Randall experiences a large spike in usage after his death, which one can assume is from journalists looking to determine his real name and going with what Wikipedia says. I challenge anyone who has a deep abiding love for Wikipedia integrity and/or professional wrestling to get to the bottom of this and find a valid source (preferably from prior to 2005) that cites his name as Randall and can be trusted to have obtained said information from a legitimate source. Either that, or do whatever one does on Wikipedia in a situation like this. --68.39.247.59 (talk) 18:43, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

A — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.26.176.105 (talk) 02:07, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Randy Savage
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Randy Savage's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "HallOfFame": From Mick Foley:  From Macon, Georgia: Georgia Music Hall of Fame. "Alan Walden - Georgia Music Hall of Fame 2003 Inductee". georgiamusicstore.com. Retrieved August 27, 2008. 

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 22:43, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Main picture
It'd be good to throw a label on that picture at the top mentioning that Savage is the one on the left... 219.124.177.65 (talk) 11:46, 9 February 2009 (UTC) I know the owner of that picture. He is a writer and was deleted off this site. I know this was used without permission, unless a Caterino posted that pic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gabrielaconti (talk • contribs) 23:53, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd like to clear this up- This is my picture, posted by me on my Flickr account, to use freely under Creative Commons. I'm the boy in the original picture.  I was never a writer on Wikipedia.  Thank you. 72.37.171.60 (talk) 16:10, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

link not needed
On one part,there's a link to pin,when it isn't needed. RandomGuyBabbling (talk) 01:39, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Hall of Fame
Original edit stated that he was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame on January 12, 2015. That's incorrect. He was announced as a Hall of Fame inductee on January 12, 2015. He won't be officially inducted until the day before Wrestlemania. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.189.8.155 (talk) 19:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Greatest Champion?
I question the meaning behind the note "The WWE (formerly WWF) considers him the greatest champion of all time". In what way and which championship? The Intercontinental Championship? Perhaps. But when you're talking about the WWF\WWE championship, how is Savage greater than Bruno Sammartino, Madison Square Garden's consistent sell out king? Or "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, whose popularity eclipsed Hulk Hogan's? A little qualifying of the statement is needed.MARK VENTURE (talk) 01:04, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it's clearly indicating that WWE named him the greatest Intercontinental Champion... the greatest champion line comes right after the Intercontinental Championship is mentioned and a source is provided.LM2000 (talk) 03:03, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 February 2017
WP:LEAD notes that "a lead section should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs" - this article's has six. Please join up paragraphs 1 & 2, and 3 & 4, as there's no need for all these paras. Thanks. 159.148.89.167 (talk) 20:45, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ I've been going through wrestlers ledes and have been trimming them lately. This one was on my to do list but I did it now since you requested it. Thanks.LM2000 (talk) 21:01, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110605000240/http://www.pwhf.org/halloffamers/bios/savage.asp to http://www.pwhf.org/halloffamers/bios/savage.asp

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:52, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Randy Savage
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Randy Savage's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "WWEbio": From Billy Gunn:  From Jake Roberts:  From Viscera (wrestler):  From Koko B. Ware:  From Road Dogg: </li> <li>From Ryback: </li> <li>From William Regal: </li> <li>From Dolph Ziggler: </li> <li>From Lance Storm: </li> <li>From Brian Pillman: </li> <li>From The Iron Sheik: </li> <li>From Sika Anoaʻi: </li> <li>From Ron Killings: </li> <li>From Bob Orton Jr.: </li> <li>From Terry Funk: </li> <li>From Jinder Mahal: </li> <li>From Bill Goldberg: </li> <li>From Booker T (wrestler): </li> <li>From Damien Sandow: </li> <li>From D'Lo Brown: </li> <li>From Alberto Del Rio: </li> <li>From Butch Miller (wrestler): </li> <li>From Drew McIntyre: </li> <li>From Ivan Koloff: </li> <li>From Brock Lesnar: </li> <li>From Nikolai Volkoff: </li> <li>From Luke Harper: </li> <li>From Luke Williams (wrestler): </li> <li>From Lex Luger: </li> <li>From Stan Hansen: </li> <li>From Jimmy Snuka: </li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 00:53, 6 September 2018 (UTC)