Talk:Ranger School/Archive 1

Copyright Violation?
copy vio? [] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xanxz (talk • contribs) 13:10, 15 October 2005.
 * DoD is all public domain &mdash; Linnwood 02:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

TRADOC?
Does Ranger school fall under TRADOC? I don't think it does. Anybody know for sure? I believe it falls under Ranger Training Brigade, which is not a TRADOC unit as far as I know. --Nobunaga24 02:08, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The TRADOC website has a list of 33 schools that are under it's command, including "Ranger School, Fort Benning, Ga." Is it possible that the RTB is under TRADOC? &mdash; Linnwood 02:38, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Could be, but I could swear RTB was outside of the TRADOC loop. I've been out for a couple years now, and haven't kept up with all the recent changes. There has been a lot of reorganization as of late. Maybe it was always a TRADOC unit. --Nobunaga24 02:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * When I was in (1996-2004), RTB was part of the Infantry School, which is part of Tradoc. --R smiht83 2 August 2006


 * Ranger School and RTB fall under TRADOC, the only training unit on Fort Benning that is not TRADOC is RTD (Ranger Training Detachment, ie: Regimental Pre-Ranger, ROP, RIP)

Ranger School
I think someone's having a mick-take with this article...

Correction needed: The desert phase of Ranger School started at Dugway and ended at Fort Bliss in 1995. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris101ranger (talk • contribs) 19:43, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Need to update the article to explain what physical standards were lowered to permit women to pass the course. As it was, it would have been impossible, so it is safe to assume Political Correctness dictated women passing just as it dictates every other aspect of the modern military. Say, has America even tried to win a war since 1945? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.20.187 (talk) 01:25, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

There have been many reports that a general officer ordered the two females, who had flunked the course, to be passed. It was only a matter of time before standards were lowered to allow the "desired" folks to pass, and that has now apparently transpired. So the main article should contain a discussion of the elephant in the room -- the issue of whether Political Correctness has now become so important in the all-volunteer military that it has overwhelmed mission preparation. After all, a future enemy might send his toughest, strongest young males to fight rather than show up with a Politically Correct-ized force. The article needs to reflect this crucial debate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.20.187 (talk) 17:24, 6 October 2015 (UTC)


 * We use reliable sources to add information to the article. If you can identify some reliable sources that report what you say, other editors can better consider your recommendations. I recommend adding a new section at the bottom of the talk page when you do though. Thanks. --Airborne84 (talk) 07:50, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Unjust revert?
Why was my addition / reformulation of the physical effects reverted by Tmaull (with no discussion) ? --DT
 * You removed information I thought was pertinent to the article.Tmaull 20:35, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry - that wasn't my intention. I was trying to expand the article and give the physical effects their own paragraph. I'm pretty sure almost all of the original content is still there. - DT
 * I think the part about how Ranger School students go from being in the best shape of their lives to the worst is a good illustrator of the physical demands of the school. Do you agree? Tmaull 03:27, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily the worst shape, but certainly the most exhausted. After all, students are exercising constantly for close to 3 straight months. --DT

deaths during training
Why no mention of the deaths during the florida phase? 61.95.65.186 (talk) 07:04, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Any references? Tmaull (talk) 02:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

There have been several over the life of Ranger School. The four that died in class 3-95 are the ones, with which, I am most familiar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris101ranger (talk • contribs) 20:31, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

There are deaths with in Army/navy/airforce basic training, it stands to reason death is possible during any training undertaken at such a high end body sapping scale: note!!!!! sounds more like normal basic training for the British Infantry PT test is about the same- map reading patroling with 100lb packs constant sleep deprivation large scale weight loss over 22 weeks (not 60 days as for ranger) and that is basic training for the basic infantry. Strikes me as strange that it would be called a special forces regiment when the training is akin to striaght forward infantry in many eropean country's; Having worked with them though it is plain to see they are in-deed an elite unit with a proud history, but i wouldnt call them special forces ? special infantry maybe as just slightly above what you would expect from normal infantry unit with in US Army. but hey whats in a name. Spetnaz/SAS Ect...the rangers are not any were near there standard so to be called special forces is well misleading. Please dont take offence they have been involved with a great many conflicts and have equited themselves well, maybe better called Special forces Backup!!


 * Some strange comments above. The 75th Ranger Regiment is part of USSOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) and are considered a special operations force. They are not "United States Army Special Forces" as that designation is for a separate command. However, the difference between the 75th Ranger Regiment and "U.S. Army Special Forces" is not in quality, but in mission type. Ranger units typically engage in direct action missions, although they can support most special operations missions. U.S. Special Forces (18 series) have a different mission set, split into five designations. Further, many of the direct action missions that the Rangers engage in are not typical "infantry" missions for any country. For example, Airborne HAHO/HALO and fast rope insertions are not "typical" methods of insertion for a standard infantry line unit.


 * I won't engage in debate as to the difference between Ranger School and British Infantry basic training, as I have only completed the former. Speculating on their similarity is just that for those who have not endured both. Speculation.


 * As for the 1995 Ranger School deaths in this article, it probably should be included. If people turn to Wikipedia to get details on a specific event, it would be useful to provide details on that event in a relavant location. For example, if someone wanted details on the "Great White" concert fire/disaster at The Station nightclub in Feb. 2003, they might go to the "Great White" Wikipedia page to read about it. If someone wanted to read about those four deaths at Ranger School, they would probably go to the Ranger School article to read about it. Airborne84 (talk) 03:07, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

In reference to the comments doubting the capabilities and training of the 75th Ranger Regiment. Ranger school is not a requrement for selection into the unit. It's a leadership course. Look up RASP. As a side note, I think losing 20-40 lbs over 61 days as compared to 22 weeks is a sufficient indicator of the difference in levels of stress between Ranger school and British basic training. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.5.214.54 (talk) 20:59, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
 * "Ranger school is not a requrement for selection into the unit." Yes, we know. Unlike P Coy, Commando Course or SAS selection, which ARE requirements for membership of the unit. This is why any comparison of 75th Ranger Regt with the Paras, RM Commando or - especially - SAS (who would have something extremely rude to say about the "toughest combat course in the world" rubbish) is just demented. I worked with a Ranger School graduate in Bosnia. His training was reasonable but nothing special; as an Int Corps NCO I felt myself at least his equal in basic infantry training and somewhat superior in CQB drills. As for the Rangers as a unit, including all those privates who haven't done the school, they're not great at all. I've read "Black Hawk Down" and I'd rather have had 100 British military clerks with me than those Rangers. From the comments of the Delta and SEAL members who were there, I suspect they'd agree. --FergusM1970 (talk) 06:15, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Peer Evaluations
The note on "agreements" is faulty information. RIs usually detect when the peers have been rigged, and will recycle or even drop the entire squad for such an infraction. Such courses of action should not be indicated as some kind of loophole. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ink170 (talk • contribs) 08:04, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

CAP Ranger Schools
I am adding a See Also section, and placing Civil Air Patrol Ranger schools there. I don't want to imply that CAP Rangers are a predecessor or descendant of the Army Rangers, so I'm open to any suggestions for clarifications. Mjf3719 (talk) 14:24, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Ranger Training Deaths
I added this section. I think the first paragraph and a summary of the following paragraphs (on the 1995 deaths) are appropriate. But I think that this section should be split into a sister article -- perhaps titled "Ranger School Deaths," or something similar. It would be summarized here and explained further there. This main article is starting to get a little too big.

If someone is interested, John Lock's book (see reference section) has an in-depth and very detailed account of this incident. Combined with some newspaper stories about this incident, there is little more needed to create this sister article. I just don't have time to do it right now.--Airborne84 (talk) 01:44, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Ranger School Class Awards
I propose to add a section on Ranger School Class Awards (with future addition of a list of awardees), to be reflected as such:

The awards listed below are designed to recognize outstanding achievement during the Ranger Course. Dependent on class performance, all or some of these awards may be presented upon graduation.

The Darby Award is awarded to the Ranger that shows the best tactical and administrative leadership performance, has the most positive spot reports and has demonstrated being a cut above the rest. He must also pass all graded leadership positions, peer reports, and may not recycle. This award is named in the honor of BG William O. Darby, who organized the 1st Ranger Battalion in 1942 with handpicked volunteers leading the way onto the beaches of North Africa. Ranger Battalions also spearheaded the campaigns in Sicily and Italy, and the D-Day landing on Omaha Beach. In the Pacific the 6th Ranger Battalion served with distinction in the Philippines.
 * WILLIAM O. DARBY AWARD (Distinguished Honor Graduate)

The Puckett Award is awarded to the ranger that passes all graded leadership positions; peer reports, and ma not recycle. The Ranger may not have any loss equipment due to negligence and may not have any retests on any critical tasks. This award is named in honor of Colonel Ralph Puckett. Colonel Puckett earned the Distinguished Service Cross during the Korean War as company commander of the 8th Army Ranger Company, the first Ranger Company seeing active service during the war. Then First Lieutenant Puckett, in an attack against numerically superior Chinese forces, established defensive fighting positions on the capture objective. His Rangers held off five Chinese counterattacks, on the sixth counterattack he was severely wounded and evacuated despite his protests.
 * RALPH PUCKETT AWARD (Officer Honor Graduate)

The Hall is awarded to the ranger that passes all graded leadership positions; peer reports, and ma not recycle. The Ranger may not have any loss equipment due to negligence and may not have any retests on any critical tasks. This award is named in honor of Corporal Glenn M. Hall. Corporal Hall was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross while serving with the 1st Airborne Ranger Company for his gallant actions at Chipyon-Ni during the Korean War. He exposed himself to direct enemy fire to cover his platoon’s movement. Once his weapon jammed he joined his platoon and volunteered to contact friendly forces on an adjacent hill. When he reached the hill, it was covered with enemy troops. Corporal Hall killed a Chinese soldier in a foxhole and used that position to drive the enemy from the hill. He was wounded during that action by a grenade.
 * GLENN M. HALL AWARD (Enlisted Honor Graduate)

The Turner Award is awarded to the officer who embodies the leadership spirit and ideals displayed by Colonel Robert A. “Tex” Turner. Colonel Turner was awarded the Silver Star for his actions on 6 May 1970 while serving as a member of a command group during the defense of Fire Support Base Henderson, Vietnam. Despite the intense mortar fire, Colonel Turner landed at the firebase assessing the damage and directing the defense of the firebase. Though seriously wounded by a mortar round impact, Colonel Turner carried a wounded soldier out to the landing pad for immediate medical evacuation. Colonel Turner’s most significant impact to the Ranger community was the creation of the Desert Phase of Ranger School when he was the Commander of the Ranger Department. As a result of Colonel Turner’s commitment to the Rangers and Ranger Training Brigade, he has been recognized as the honorary commander of the Ranger Training Brigade.
 * COLONEL Robert A. “Tex” Turner Officer Leadership Award

The Spenser Award is awarded to the enlisted member who embodies the leadership spirit and ideals displayed by SGM Robert Spencer. As the Sergeant Major of the Ranger Training Department from 1981 to 1985, SGM Spencer was instrumental in the reorganization of the Ranger Department. His contributions and astute leadership were recognized in March 2002, when SGM Spencer was recognized as the honorary Sergeant Major of the Ranger Training Brigade.
 * SGM Robert Spenser Enlisted Leadership Award

http://www.ranger.org/Default.aspx?pageId=584454


 * It might be a bit much as listed. I suggest condensing the above into a paragraph or two using the summary style. A list of awardees would probably be too much detail unless you split this topic out into its own main article. --Airborne84 (talk) 02:16, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

RASP?
Why isnt RASP mentioned in this article? Sephiroth storm (talk) 18:49, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Is it possible to include in the Ranger School or RASP page the difference between the two?72.130.42.36 (talk) 02:13, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

misspelling
On the caption of the photograph of the mountain phse rapelling training, the word rapelling is misspelled repelling. I would have corrected it, but I cannot see how to edit photograph captions bear with me if I didn't poist this comment properly, I am a novice
 * The word is spelled acceptably, according to Merriam Webster. Thanks for your interest in the article and Wikipedia. --Airborne84 (talk) 06:58, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Discovery Channel description of Ranger School
Apparently at least one editor objects to the Discovery channel description of Ranger School. I'll paste it below for other editors to weigh in on it.


 * In 2011, it was called the "toughest combat course in the world".

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