Talk:Ranjitsinhji

Last words
I would like some confirmation for this edit which mentions 'If I could only sleep ...' as his last words. I have seen it in a trivia book but from memory, Alan Ross's biography of Ranji states only that he repeated these words many times during his final illness, and not that they were his final words.

It is quite likely that one of Ranji's many biographies confirm it, but it would be good if we could find a proper source. Tintin (talk) 09:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Added fact tag to it. Tintin (talk) 09:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

This is the relevant section from Alan Ross' Ranji:The Prince of Cricketers (Chapter : The Last Journey) :


 * For five days, Ranji struggled. "If I could only sleep", he said time and again. Hypnotics, Prof. Thomas reported, were useless. Sleep would have been the deciding factor in his illness and nothing could procure it for him. The terrible cough continued day and night accompanied by increasing breathlessness.


 * (Snipped a paragraph about cousin Digvijaysinhji being sent for)


 * On the night of 1 April, Ranji's heart began to fail. He embraced in turn those members of his family that were present and at five o'clock in the morning of 2 April, he died. (Pavilion books edition, Paperback, 1989, p.226, ISBN 1-85145-223-0)

I am deleting the line now. The addition was made from an Indian IP address and I strongly suspect that his source is the trivia book mentioned above (it is far more popular here than any Ranji biography). It is a very interesting book but takes a few liberties with facts for the sake of good trivia. Tintin (talk) 13:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Name
Could this article perhaps be simply named Ranjitsinhji or even Ranji? (Both are already redirects to this article). Does the "Kumar Shri" (or "KS") add much?

Secondly, shouldn't this article and Duleepsinhji (currently at Kumar Shri Duleepsinhji) be consistent? -- ALoan (Talk) 19:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree on both points. "K. S. Ranjitsinhji" and "Kumar Shri Duleepsinhji" were only their names before they became the rulers of a princely state. The "K. S." ("Kumar Shri") is a title. Umar Zulfikar Khan (talk) 10:07, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

bowling
what delivery did he bowl because it says he bowled deliveries but it doesn't but his bowling type in Speedboy Salesman 11:06, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Styles and honours
I've removed these from the article for the moment; there are two reasons. Firstly, I'm not convinced by the importance of this information where it is not covered in the main article. Does it matter that he changed from Major to Lieutenant or from GBE to GCSI. These titles and his honours are largely symbolic as he was hardly a major military figure. Secondly, even if these are important details, they remain details and I would argue they are trivia (except where the facts are covered (or will be covered) in the main article. An encyclopaedia should not include such minor details as these in my view; however, there may be mileage in a separate article, such as List of titles held by K. S. Ranjitsinhji but I'm not sure it would be notable enough.

Styles

 * 1872-1878: Kumar Shri Ranjitsinhji Jivansinhji Jadeja
 * 1878-1882: Yuvraj Shri Ranjitsinhji Jivansinhji Jadeja
 * 1882-1898: Kumar Shri Ranjitsinhji Jivansinhji Jadeja
 * 1898-1899: Lieutenant Kumar Shri Ranjitsinhji Jivansinhji Jadeja
 * 1899-1907: Captain Kumar Shri Ranjitsinhji Jivansinhji Jadeja
 * 1907-1914: Captain His Highness Maharajadhiraj Maharaja Jam Shri Ranjitsinhji Vibhaji Jadeja [Rawalji II Vibhaji Sahib], Maharaja Jam Sahib of Nawanagar
 * 1914-1915: Major His Highness Maharajadhiraj Maharaja Jam Shri Ranjitsinhji Vibhaji Jadeja [Rawalji II Vibhaji Sahib], Maharaja Jam Sahib of Nawanagar
 * 1915-1917: Major His Highness Maharajadhiraj Maharaja Jam Shri Ranjitsinhji Vibhaji Jadeja [Rawalji II Vibhaji Sahib], Maharaja Jam Sahib of Nawanagar, ADC
 * 1917-1918: Major His Highness Maharajadhiraj Maharaja Jam Shri Sir Ranjitsinhji Vibhaji Jadeja [Rawalji II Vibhaji Sahib], Maharaja Jam Sahib of Nawanagar, KCSI, ADC
 * 1918-1919: Lieutenant-Colonel His Highness Maharajadhiraj Maharaja Jam Shri Sir Ranjitsinhji Vibhaji Jadeja [Rawalji II Vibhaji Sahib], Maharaja Jam Sahib of Nawanagar, KCSI, ADC
 * 1919-1923: Lieutenant-Colonel His Highness Maharajadhiraj Maharaja Jam Shri Sir Ranjitsinhji Vibhaji Jadeja [Rawalji II Vibhaji Sahib], Maharaja Jam Sahib of Nawanagar, GBE, KCSI, ADC
 * 1923-1933: Lieutenant-Colonel His Highness Maharajadhiraj Maharaja Jam Shri Sir Ranjitsinhji Vibhaji Jadeja [Rawalji II Vibhaji Sahib], Maharaja Jam Sahib of Nawanagar, GCSI, GBE, ADC

Honours

 * Bailiff Grand Cross of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem (GCStJ) - 1911
 * Delhi Durbar gold medal - 1911
 * Mentioned in Despatches (MID) - 1915
 * 1914 Star - 1918
 * British War Medal - 1918
 * Allied Victory Medal - 1918
 * Permanent salute of 15-guns - 1921 (Permanent salute of 13-guns;15-guns personal - 1918)
 * Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the British Empire (GBE (mil.)) - 1919
 * Knight Grand Commander of the Order of the Star of India (GCSI) - 1923 (KCSI - 1917)

Proposed page move
Further to ALoan's suggestion some years ago (see above) I propose that this page is moved from K.S. Ranjitsinhji to Ranjitsinhji, per WP:COMMONNAME. --Dweller (talk) 14:08, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I've no strong preferences either way. I suspect he was/is equally well known as "K. S.", even though as ALoan mentioned above it was just a title (which he shouldn't really have had at all), but I think a move to Ranjitsinhji would be fine. Sarastro1 (talk) 09:39, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Doing it now. --Dweller (talk) 15:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

War service section
"In November 1914, he left to serve at the Western Front, leaving Berthon as administrator."

Who was Berthon ? That's the first, but not the only mention of him. Claverhouse (talk) 15:52, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Re-nomination
The article is well written with images and sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jashlore (talk • contribs) 08:30, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I am unsure why you have renominated this article as you have not addressed the issues presented in the previous nomination. Willbb234Talk (please &#123;&#123;ping&#125;&#125; me in replies) 14:01, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The nominator and reviewer are both socks of Eliko007. GA nom is a quick=fail. — Diannaa (talk) 13:27, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Article length
The article has a readable prose size of 72 kB (11,987 words) which far exceeds the recommended limits in WP:SIZESPLIT. I think the article should be split into Ranjitsinhji, cricketer and Ranjitsinhji, Jam Sahib of Nawanagar (or other titles which meet these scopes).

As presently written, the article is disjointed because it is covering two distinct subjects and the interchanges are so frequent that you easily lose track of his cricket in England on the one hand and his personal ambitions in Nawanagar on the other. There needs to be a cricket article which focuses on that and only mentions Nawanagar on the occasions when his business there actually impacted his cricket career (for example, he missed the start of the 1902 season because he was in India). Equally, an article about Nawanagar should make only brief and necessary references to cricket and England, such as the fact it was cricket which made him famous.

I'll be happy to take the lead in creation of the two new articles if approved. I'll leave it pending till the end of January. Thank you. Batagur baska (talk) 12:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 * No response so I'll leave this a while longer and raise it at WT:CRIC. Batagur baska (talk) 22:00, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd not have separate articles like that(it makes it sound like they are 2 separate people) but would not object to creating something like Cricket career of Ranjitsihji and to move a lot of the content there, leaving a summary here. Spike &#39;em (talk) 11:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
 * (cross posting what I'd posted at WT:INB): I don't think a split on those lines would be right, both aspects of his life are intertwined. I think trimming down the article may be a better option. There's a little too much detail in the form of story telling as opposed to encyclopaedic writing in the article.&mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  11:59, 7 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose a full split - we almost never treat biographies this way (look at Imran Khan), and I expect there is a policy against it somewhere. The article isn't that long and the two aspects are entwined to some extent. But a more detailed Cricket career of Ranjitsihji, leaving shorter summaries behind, would be ok. Johnbod (talk) 16:12, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi, all. Thanks for your comments. It looks like a clear consensus to keep the article as is but with a sub-article for detailed coverage of his cricket career, which is to be summarised here. I'll remove the split proposal from the main page and then think about the sub. I'll actually have to set it aside for a time because real life has taken over once more, but I hope to make some progress before too long. Thank you again. Batagur baska (talk) 09:42, 8 February 2024 (UTC)