Talk:Rank in judo

inconsitence on webpage at 'Brasil' coloursystem
I did Judo and remember that even in Holland some colours in the ranking changed (our school was also part of Anton Geesink, who's rank by the way still has been recognized i'nationally aswell by Japan(..!), so there might be a rule that it can be done by a replacer for the Kadokan,..): after white came light-yellow(or white with yellow strips/stripe(horiz.)), -as junior halfyellow then came (full)yellow, orange, red, green, lightbrown (...?), brown, black, black with whiteblocks (unto 5 or 6 then..) and then white with mark?.. Make a figure of main and one of the exceptional ones with below them their countries, with notation like astrix or altered number notes, below can stand; "not/only in country of ..." at an exceptional colour or additional subranking.
 * white, blue,.. in text while in 'Brasil'-figure(picture) other colour order has been depicted; white, yellow, red,... And if given a few countries (only Brasil and Canada exceptions) why not more or all others.

So thru time also changed and the original belt system - in Japan - is different; white, brown, black, with integrated marks on belts of subranking. A starter had grey, placed as junior (even when old) -sectional (-mend)-. Later lightblue came instead i'nationally.

Originally it went to 10th Dan, Sport's -in advance no sport but defence-(*in latin defendare +-ance made defen'ce(ce=from -ance, so not a '-se'))technic for pauvrity farmer against robbing and fighting bands of black orders in Japan, because a Law withdraw the right of having arms, a wish of the that time ruling emperor. As a postume honour and the keep him the highest master after death (so none could reach same-rank; an honour-question) the 11th Dan was made and dedicated to Kano the edifier of the Judo-defence-system.. (please note, gently, next:!) It need a little explination to the unacquaint being reader in generality, where the 12th grade/dan came from and by that people could have also reach(&-ed) 11th dan, plus, the honour of the inventour has been surpassed and assulted, depending what opinion-angle a person regard this. It cannot be accepted in Japan where eleventh is still only dedicated to its Judo Founder as a crown-title. A "surpass" else (so yes, where; in each continent or country(not f. Holland anyway..!?)) when the founder's country opposed it (aswell olympicboard), should it accepted and in (con-)sequence remain staying?? Better should be to add on the 10th grade subgrades of adition, 2nd/3rd (as extra subgrades) altition (hightposition)(2nd/3rd higher subrank of highest rank).. to replace 'artificial' 11th and 12th - since not everywhere accepted, I presume!

(Artificial, since no recognition from -first- Japan judoboard, -secondly- Olympic and/or International Judo Federation and -third- the national and/or regional ones; so it has no solid anywhere accepted status, so not quite real but an 'own copy' = artificial).

=
====== Werner van der Wal (-Winchester, frld.)

"Only 15 Kodokan 10th dans"
Despite Keiko Fukuda's recent promotion to 10th dan by USAJ, it remains the case that there are only 15 judoka who have been promoted to 10th dan by the Kodokan:

* Yamashita, Yoshitugu (1865-1935) Promoted 10th Dan 1935 * Isogai, Hajime (1871-1947) Promoted 10th Dan 1937 * Nagaoka, Hidekazu (1876-1952) Promoted 10th Dan 1937 * Mifune, Kyuzo (1883-1965) Promoted 10th Dan 1945 * Iizuka, Kunisaburo (1875-1958) Promoted 10th Dan 1946 * Samura, Kaichiro (1880-1964) Promoted 10th Dan 1948 * Tabata, Shotaro (1884-1950) Promoted 10th Dan 1948 * Okano, Kotaro (1885-1967) Promoted 10th Dan 1967 * Shoriki, Matsutaro (1885-1969) Promoted 10th Dan 1969 * Nakano, Shozo (1888-1977) Promoted 10th Dan 1977 * Kurihara, Tamio (1896-1979) Promoted 10th Dan 1979 * Kotani, Sumiyuki (1903-1991) Promoted 10th Dan 1984 * Daigo, Toshiro (1926- ), Promoted 10th Dan 2006 * Abe, Ichiro, Promoted 10th Dan 2006 * Osawa, Yoshimi, Promoted 10th Dan 2006

Keiko Fukuda currently holds the rank of Kodokan 9th dan.

There are a number of other judoka who have attained 10th dan, but not through the Kodokan, including George Kerr, Charles Palmer and Anton Geesink.  Catfish  Jim  (ex-soapdish)  10:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Came here to say the same thing. I will remove accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.130.152.26 (talk) 19:51, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Use of the word "player"
Is the word "player" appropriate here ("In the US only senior players"). As far as I know, player isn't used for martial arts, nor can someone "play" judo hence not being a player. Anyone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.35.69.1 (talk) 02:40, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

The verb "play" is appropriate, and Japanese practitioners do talk about "playing jūdō, and this is due to the Japanese verb. It may not seem to translate as well in English, but then we "play" baseball, football, and, of course, full-contact no submission needle point. TheDoctorX (talk) 04:45, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Article title
Why is this article titled 'Judo ranks and grades'? I am not aware of any differentiation in Judo between a 'rank' and a 'grade', and the article seems to use the terms as synonyms. CanadianJudoka (talk) 17:50, 25 August 2012 (UTC)


 * If I remember correctly, that was the title of the section in the Judo article when I moved it to a new article. Suggestions for a new title?  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  22:03, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * What do you think of "Rank in Judo"? CanadianJudoka (talk) 22:27, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  20:45, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Some questions

 * While I've read the quote There is no limit...on the grade one can receive. Therefore if one does reach a stage above 10th dan... there is no reason why he should not be promoted to 11th dan., I'm pretty sure, unless someone more knowledgeable can tell me otherwise, that the original grading system still only went up to 10th dan and that Kano was merely talking hypothetically about someone going beyond 10th. That being the case, should 'Eleventh dan' not be removed from the 'Kanō's original kyū-dan grading system' table, particularly as the entry is incomplete anyway (not having the Japanese name)?


 * The following is written under the section 'Belt colors':

'For dan ranks, the first five are colored black, 6th, 7th, and 8th dan have alternating red and white panels (dandara), and for 9th, 10th and 11th dan the belts are solid red. The final Dan is the twelfth dan, this is usually coloured white along with a judoka's first belt, however the highest dan reached in judo remains 10th dan. '

The reference listed is somewhat obscure and is not viewable online. The information itself seems to differ in relation to 11th and 12th dan compared to the previous 'The Kōdōkan Kyū-Dan ranking system' section. I've never seen or heard it suggested anywhere else that an 11th dan judoka would wear a red belt and a 12th dan would wear a white one. Does anyone have any further information on this? I would suggest that the reference in question either be replaced with a better one or that the information be removed.


 * In the same 'Belt colors' section the following unreferenced information appears:

'One of the most intriging aspects of judo's grading system is the diversity of value placed on a black belt depending on the country. An example of this is in Brazil and France there is a substantial time period required before achieving a black belt, thus a black belt is generally a very skilled judoka at that point. Contrast this with Japan were there are no color grades and a blackbelt is still considered a beginner.'

The information on Japan seems to be in direct contradiction to the Kodokan ranks listed in the first section and to the (also unreferenced) 'Japan' subsection directly below. Clearly something is wrong, possibly due to varied grading methods within Japan. Can someone more knowledgeable about this than me edit to either remove or correct the information here?

I'm also not sure that the belt colors listed in the 'Judo belt colors in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.' table is correct for every school across the entirety of Europe and the countries listed but I think there's plenty to be going on with for now. Cdfbrown (talk) 02:34, 12 April 2014 (UTC) → Within Europe, I've done judo in Belgium, France, Holland, Scotland and England; and only in England I've encountered red belts as intermediate between white and yellow. So other sample countries welcome to clarify the red belt thing?86.18.215.73 (talk) 15:29, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Vandalism?
"Many countries call judo warriors the ancient word FAEGS"

I think this is a joke, vandalism, and should be checked & removed. Sounds like someone is calling judokas fags..

Red and Black panel belt for 4th and 5th dan
At least USJA uses the red and black panel belt for 4th and 5th dan, right? Is that one really used or is it only used on paper? And should it be added to the article?

I noticed it because my jiu jitsu association in Austria has adapted that (nonsensical) practice and I would like to verify if that's where it comes from for the German article. My source is https://www.usja.net/about/promotion.

It's actually quite confusing for us as the neighboring association in Germany red and white and red and black are interchangeable for 6th to 8th dan which causes some mayhem at seminars if the people aren't chipmunks and have stripes on top of showing off the panels but get really worked up about someone slightly lower ranked than they are standing on their right --NainDeathlegs (talk) 10:30, 22 November 2022 (UTC)