Talk:Rape of males/Archive 3

Concern over interpretation of last sentence in lead.
Could interested editors please check the intention of this sentence: A perception of being gay is also a motive for rape in many cases. I'm convinced it should read something along the lines of: A fear of being perceived as gay is also a motive for men not reporting rape in some cases. Even if/when corrected, I'm also not wholly convinced this one newspaper article about one person's horrible experience is a sufficiently good enough source to make such a sweeping statement, even if true. Rather than blunder in and make big changes here, I'd prefer to raise the issue for others to assess. Thank you, Nick Moyes (talk) 00:50, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Should be worded better and supported by a better source. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:28, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I read the source, and between that and the sentence before covering a similar thought as to what is being proposed, I think what it means is something like, Some men are victimized due to being perceived as gay. Doesn't seem necessary for the lead though. And it seems weird right after saying that some men may not report due to fear of being perceived as gay, to then say that being perceived as gay may indeed be a factor in being raped. It would be like validating this idea. -Crossroads- (talk) 20:54, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say "validating this idea" since men have been raped by other men due to being gay or perceived as gay, including with regard to corrective rape. Yeah, it seems odd that a man would rape another in order to "correct" him, but it happens because those men act as though they are teaching the other man a lesson, like "this wouldn't have happened to you if you weren't gay." But the material shouldn't be included in the lead until covered lowered in the article.


 * Anyway, on the topic of men being raped by other men in relation to sexual orientation or sexuality, there are sources such as this 2012 "Forensic Nursing: Evidence-Based Principles and Practice" source, from F. A. Davis Company, page 123, which states, "[Gay men] think that the assault occurred because they are gay, whereas straight men often begin to question their sexual identity and are more disturbed by the sexual aspect of the assault than the violence involved. (Brochman, 1991) Questions about sexuality in the heterosexual male is complicated and a source of confusion and stress to the male victim when ejaculation is part of the rape experience. Given that the research is aging and the focus on violence against women is institutionalized and well funded, the topic of rape of males remains a taboo subject that is not currently a priority in most communities." I added this source to the lead. This 2016 "Encyclopedia of Homosexuality, Volume 2" reprint source, from Routledge, page 1095, states, "While gay males are also raped, there is no evidence that they are victimized in appreciably greater numbers than their proportion of the general population; most male rape victims are heterosexual. What is even more surprising to the average man is that, according to several studies, most rapes of males are committed by men who are heterosexual in their consensual sexual preference and self-identity; only 7 percent of the rapists of men in the Groth-Burgess study were homosexual. [Indeed, it has been reported that homosexual men are far less likely to engage in rape than heterosexual men.] Half or more of these rapists choose victims from both genders." Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:59, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

Canadian law on rape?
Could interested editors create a Canada section for the "Prevalence" section of the page?

Thanks. 2001:56A:7634:4A00:9CEB:76FF:8C1E:4AFB (talk) 01:59, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Removal of content by IP editor
I invite the IP editor who has been removing content from this article to explain their thinking below - see WP:BRD. Girth Summit  (blether) 15:07, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * rangeblock: 176.60.64.0/18 has been blocked from editing for one year. This block has been placed to bring an end to over six months of sexuality-related original research, tendentious rejection of community input and persistent edit warring. If the IP editor had an account, they would long have been topic banned from the area of conflict, and blocked from editing indefinitely. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:33, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

How do community service providers react to the sexual orientation of male victims and, which reactions are there to which sexual orientations?
In the beginning of the article, there is the following sentence: "Community and service providers often react to the sexual orientation of male victims and the gender of their perpetrators.[4]" But this doesn't really offer any information, just raises questions. Because of course they "react". I mean, even if they are a fictional character with literally no biases or preconceived notions, they will react at least in remembering it, or writing it down, or in some way acknowledging they heard the victim. But how are they reacting, and to what exactly. For example, are they reacting to the news that the victim is a heterosexual male being raped by woman, and HOW; or are they reacting to the news that the victim is a homosexual man, being raped by a man; or are they reacting to the news that it was a homosexual man raped by a woman; etc. If no more information can be given than this, I vote this ambiguous statement OFF THE ISLAND.

CuriousLayman (talk) 07:18, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 8 December 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: rough consensus not to move Andrewa (talk) 00:52, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Rape of males → Sexual violence against males – The article discusses sexual assault and rape alongside each other, despite the two being distinct. Either the article should undergo a reworking to make it more focused (i.e discuss the rape of male) or have the title changed to be more general in nature. DMT biscuit (talk) 00:18, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Somewhat oppose per my argument in the previous move discussion: Talk:Rape of males/Archive 2. Back then, I commented: "I especially disagree with the 'Sexual victimization of males' title; it is far too broad. This article is currently mostly about rape, which means that the current title is the WP:Precise title. Articles commonly have material in them that deviate from the article title; that doesn't mean that the title should be broadened." Similar goes for the "Sexual violence against males" title. The proposer says that the article discusses sexual assault and rape alongside each other. But rape is a form of sexual assault and the article's current text is overwhelmingly specifically about rape. Of course, just like the Rape article, it will mention other forms of sexual assault here and there; that's unavoidable due to the overlap in sources. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 02:26, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose per above and WP:PRECISE. Crossroads -talk- 06:03, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Closing comment: Proposed new name is a useful redirect and I have created it. Andrewa (talk) 00:52, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The introduction
User:Flyer22 Frozen, User:Crossroads, and User:Andrewa, I don't think it's right that the anon keeps adding the stuff saying most rape victims in the U.S. are men and most of the offenders against these men are women. That's a complete misrepresentation of the available research. Also, the anon uses a lot of inappropriate language, and it's too much data for the introduction. 77.240.240.239 (talk) 18:01, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I took a look at this NISVS-report and it does seem that the newly added text is misrepresenting it substantially. MrOllie (talk) 02:12, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Very relevant comment. So that should be corrected.
 * And it would appear that a warning to is appropriate. They have received previous warnings on behaviour.
 * Edit warring is of course not permitted, and they have indulged in it on other articles as well, but have received no specific warnings on that yet.
 * has done the right thing raising it here. Andrewa (talk) 08:37, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

I see has now been temporarily blocked by ... Thank you! I have no experience in IP blocks. Andrewa (talk) 03:30, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Myths
Please add the following to 'Myths regarding male victims of rape' section:

A man cannot be raped by a woman

This myth is unfortunately still pervasive, and reflected in legal systems across the world which exclude females as potential perpetrators of rape. In the UK, for instance, rape is defined as penetration of the "mouth, anus or vagina with [the defendant's] penis". Similarly, the FBI's definition of rape requires penetration of the victim, again excluding female perpetrators.

That a woman cannot rape a man is notably advocated by feminists such as Mary Koss: “How would [a man being raped by a woman] happen… how would that happen by force or threat of force or when the victim is unable to consent? How does that happen? I would call it ‘unwanted contact.’”

"Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman." (Koss, M.P. (1993) Detecting the Scope of Rape: A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 8, 198-222) 86.146.244.4 (talk) 20:49, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Recent edits
Can User:Beauty School Dropout please explain their objections to my edits? They are well-sourced, reasonable and clearly not vandalism. When I attempted to discuss this with Beauty School Dropout, they deleted my comment and did not respond. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.147.164.210 (talk) 21:58, 15 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi, please leave a message on my talk page if there is no discussion after a reasonable amount of time (a day or two)  22:15, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I felt that your additions were highly opinion rather than based in stated researched facts. However, I will not redact your edits again from this IP address.  Thank you.   Beauty School Dropout (talk) 22:57, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Everything I added was well-sourced. That a woman cannot be a perpetrator is still a prevalent myth associated with male rape. See here here or here for instance, or research papers There is also a fairly prominent researcher who thinks female on male rape is not possible so it's not just a fringe view  81.147.164.210 (talk) 00:05, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This source you added is a blog. --Gilgul Kaful (talk) 08:50, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Though a bit redundant, I think this has a place in the Myths regarding male victims of rape section.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 16:20, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Fringe theory
Can anybody explain why the "female-on-male rape" is NOT WP:Fringe? 178.120.9.58 (talk) 13:00, 20 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Dude, stop. 178.120.4.227 (talk) 13:28, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That's an odd question. Shouldn't you be explaining why it is fringe? Girth Summit  (blether)  13:35, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Because it's well covered by reliable academic sources. It would only be fringe if it was only covered in pseudoscience. — Panamitsu (talk) 21:52, 20 October 2023 (UTC)