Talk:Raphael Lemkin

death
He died at 59. That seems rather young. Please explain why. Redwolf24 9 July 2005 00:16 (UTC)


 * Explained. Heart attack. Halibutt 21:39, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Why only seven people attented his funeral?DarkGhost89 12:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps it might have something to do with the fact that his broader definition of genocide had not found favour with the 'powers that be'. One has to read between the lines as to why the UN Convention on Genocide limited its definition to 'physical' acts and ignored the more insidious 'psychological' techniques, which Lemkin quite rightly identified. Not many of the signatories to the Convention would have escaped the 'psychological' net either then, or now! -- TGG 13:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

other
Corrected some spelling. (IchBin 06:52, 1 January 2006 (UTC))

Struck "Polish-occupied Ukraine (Today Lviv, Ukraine)" from Early life and education. Beyond the fact Lvov was legally conceeded in the Polish-Ukrainiam war, the history of the city of Lwow are not relevant to Lemkin. (Labattblueboy 5 April 2006 (UTC))

You should consult Ward Churchills book "a little matter of genocide" to see how he describes Lemkin's quest as a failure, the UN under the influence of the US stripped Lemkin's original definition down. I don't have time to write about it, however I just thought you'd be interested. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roadcollective (talk • contribs)

injury in defense of Warsaw
The beginning of the World War II section currently states During the Polish Defensive War of 1939 Lemkin joined the Polish Army and defended Warsaw during the siege of that city, where he was injured by a bullet to the hip, afterward evading capture by the Germans. I'm in the middle of "A Problem from Hell" and it mentions nothing about actual fighting or an injury and Lemkin appears do nothing but fleeing. Can someone source this information? Thanks, BT 15:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

John Cooper's biography mentions that Lemkin "had been wounded in his 'right leg close to the hip' which detracted from his mobility" but this seems to have occurred in 1918, not during his flight in 1939. See Cooper, pages 26 and 19. 161.6.128.62 (talk) 20:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Nobel nominations
Preserving this deleted material -- surely there must be a record of it somewhere, as a Wikipedia editor is unlikely to have made it up. Should be re-added when sourced:


 * For his work on international law and the prevention of war crimes, Lemkin was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1950, 1951, 1952, 1955, 1956, 1958 and 1959. Although he was never awarded the Nobel Prize, he did receive a number of other awards,

Dybryd 01:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Name
Wouldn't his first name by birth be Rafał? Did he adopt Rafael or Raphael later in life, or is "Raphael" simply an Anglicization of his real name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.57.121.14 (talk) 19:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

You are of course right, he was Polish and his name was Rafał.Raphael was name used by him in USA cos it was easier to spell for Americans.So can person who wrote that article change the title to RAFAŁ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.117.209.32 (talk) 21:37, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It's the name that he is most commonly referred to in English. There is mention during the first section that he was born Rafal.--Labattblueboy (talk) 12:50, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Lemkin's scholarship on genocide
Somebody might like to mention the following article since, among other things, it sheds some light on his being credited with coining the term "genocide". I'll refrain from doing it myself since I don't have time to read all thirty pages. --Adoniscik(t, c) 23:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)




 * Lemkin wasn't the first person to coin the word Genocide, it had been around since 1829. He can be considered the first person to introduce it into every day vocabulary. It can be found in the 'The Encyclopedia Americana: Volume 30' (1829) at this link: http://books.google.com/books?id=m4cOAAAAMAAJ&q=%22genocide%22&dq=%22genocide%22&hl=en&ei=AEUNTe2HNYGUvAOd0oTwDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAg --Delos (talk) 23:40, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Studied armenian genocide
I removed the claim that he studied Armenian Genocide. In the citation here it says "As a teen, Lemkin learned through news accounts that the Turkish government was slaughtering its Christian Armenian citizens". I am just going to tell you this falt out. Armainian genocide was evil and Lemkin did not study it. He was all about the turkish genocide. GOd noby does there research anymore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.148.19 (talk) 16:22, 24 January 2011 (UTC) No mention he studied Armenian Genocide.--Abbatai 09:22, 17 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abbatai (talk • contribs)
 * I'm sorry, but what. Lemkins introduction to the Armenian genocide began in 1921 while at student in Lwow and only progressed from there. I suggest reading Chapter 7 (Raphael Lemkin and the Armenian Genocide) of "Looking backward, moving forward: confronting the Armenian Genocide", it might provide you with some perspective.--Labattblueboy (talk) 10:27, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Yair Auron. The Banality of Denial: Israel and the Armenian Genocide. — Transaction Publishers, 2004. — p. 9:

"...when Raphael Lemkin coined the word genocide in 1944 he cited the 1915 annihilation of Armenians as a seminal example of genocide"

William Schabas. Genocide in international law: the crimes of crimes. — Cambridge University Press, 2000. — p. 25: "Lemkin’s interest in the subject dates to his days as a student at Lvov University, when he intently followed attempts to prosecute the perpetration of the massacres of the Armenians"

A. Dirk Moses. Genocide and settler society: frontier violence and stolen indigenous children in Australian history. — Berghahn Books, 2004. — p. 21:

Indignant that the perpetrators of the Armenian genocide had largely escaped prosecution, Lemkin, who was a young state prosecutor in Poland, began lobbying in the early 1930s for international law to criminalize the destruction of such groups.

--Taron Saharyan (talk) 20:53, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

politicized books does not prove that he learn the term genocide from at the armenians  or turkish genocides. he also studied genocide  against turks by armenians. we should also remember that there was no armenian genocide since what happen to armenian population in anatolia is totally different than what happen to the jews in germany. ottoman government moved armenians to different side of the country because of revolt.almost all of the armenians returned back to turkey after the war. if turkey wanted to genocide armenians, why then turks  welcomed back armenians  to the turkey after the war  ? relocation is not a genocide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.136.212.27 (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Coinage
The article claims that Lemkin coined the word genocide in 1943, but it seems to appear in print sources earlier than that (if the Google Book dates are accurate): 1936, 1941. Doremo (talk) 10:20, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I've removed the "fact" tag because the Google Book dates for the publications appear to be inaccurate. Doremo (talk) 10:25, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * CNN says 1944 http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/11/13/sbm.lemkin.profile/index.html Liam987  (talk)  15:28, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I think Bruce Jenkins is more reliable than CNN.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 15:55, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Born in the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth?
um i understood that stopped being a thing in like 1800..? surely it would be Russian Poland or whatever? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.182.40.90 (talk) 15:10, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I've removed this reference and replaced it with the one contemporary to his birth. ChristineBushMV (talk) 21:05, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't want to split hair here but would it not be the Vilna Governorate, the Lithuania-Grodno Governorate did not exist at the time of Lemkin's birth.--Labattblueboy (talk) 22:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * No, we want to get this right and it isn't (yet). The timeline in the article about Volkovysk is what I used to make my last change, but it isn't very clear. I'll change it to Vilna Governorate. ChristineBushMV (talk) 00:59, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm Ok that we leave it as is until we can be certain we have it right. Imperial Russian administration is not my forte and I'd rather we have it right and this element remain stable.--Labattblueboy (talk) 01:09, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Was he adopted?
"Lemkin was born Rafał Lemkin in the village of Bezwodne during a period when it was part of the Vilna Governorate of the Russian Empire, now in the Vawkavysk district of Belarus. Not much is known of Lemkin's early life. He grew up in a Jewish family and was one of three children born to Joseph and Bella (Pomerantz) Lemkin. His father was a farmer and his mother a highly intellectual woman who was a painter, linguist, and philosophy student with a large collection of books on literature and history." The wording of this separates his parents from the family "he grew up with", leaving open the possibility that he grew up with a different family, which is probably not what the writer intended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.135.3 (talk) 17:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC)


 * "He grew up in a Jewish family and was one of three children born to Joseph and Bella (Pomerantz) Lemkin" - I think this makes it clear that he was not adopted (as these people were Jewish). There is really no room for interpretation here. --92slim (talk) 17:45, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Quote ID
Genocide mentions:
 * Lemkin defined genocide as follows:
 * Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.

A reference is not listed directly aside this so I am not sure where it was written.

It does mention in the preceding paragraph:
 * Raphael Lemkin, in his work Axis Rule in Occupied Europe (1944), or possibly in 1943, coined the term "genocide" by combining Greek genos (γένος), "race, people" and Latin cīdere "to kill".

This led me to wonder if the quote was from "Axis Rule", but I am not sure. Could it have come from a later work where he elaborated on the term he introduced in Axis Rule? Ranze (talk) 02:28, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Eastern European links
Just an enquiry to those that know better. Lemkin was Jewish, he was born in Imperial Russia so this doesn't make him Belarus-born in anything other than the modern day sense. Then you have this double-link to Belarus and Russia coupled with the notion that Lemkin was a Polish Jew which can be more confusing. In the first place, Poles, Belarussians and Russians are Slavic nations who are culturally and linguistically connected by a continuum. For one to be a Jew normally means that this is how he identifies ethnically regardless of whether he is a practising Jew. The language/dialect he or his parents will have spoken will have been that of the area they were from. As such, I cannot make the connection to Polish. -- OJ ( TALK ) 10:42, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Polonized-Jewish descent
Is this a term? It sounds really odd, especially encountering it in the lead. K.e.coffman (talk) 08:52, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * It was the term employed in one of the sources and does appear tohave a notable amount of usage. However, I'm all ears for other suggestions as it's not a central content concern for me. It does seems appropriate to distinguish between ethnicity and nationality. His nationality seems a bit complicated (Imperial Russian, Belarusian Republic, Second Polish Republic and his "home" after leaving thearea becoming Soviet Union, Byelorussian SSR, German occupied, Byelorussian SSR again and lastly Republic of Belarus. Throw in the fact that he lived is Sweden and subsequently the United States and nationality becomes a distraction given I don't know whether he self identified himself in one way or another. All this to say it would bring me great pleasure if a final consensus was reached.--Labattblueboy (talk) 12:09, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

injury in defense of Warsaw (cont'd)
the statement "During the Polish Defensive War of 1939 Lemkin joined the Polish Army and defended Warsaw during the siege of that city, where he was injured by a bullet to the hip. " was removed on 13 Feb 2017 as unreferenced. Actually it was referenced (Paul R. Bartrop. Modern Genocide: The Definitive Resource and Document Collection. Vol. I. ABC-CLIO. 2014. pp. 1301-1302 which refers to the event.  Philippe Sands does mention: "One Polish scholar claimed that he fought as a soldier in the Polish-Soviet war, and Lemkin himself once suggested he was wounded in 1920, as Marshal Piłsudski pushed Bolshevik forces out of eastern Poland." (Sands p. 149) but goes on to say that Lemkin does not mention the time in his memoirs and that he was expelled from a university around that time for falsely claiming that he had been in the Polish army.  This seems to justify the deletion.  --Joel Mc (talk) 11:28, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:22, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The Genocide Word by Raphael Lemkin.ogv

Edited video from YouTube is not a reliable source.
The video file where Rafael Lemkin allegedly claims that "Hitler came out after the Armenian Genocide" is not only falsified but also taken from YouTube File:The Genocide Word by Raphael Lemkin.ogv

Hew Folly (talk) 18:52, 20 June 2024 (UTC)


 * @KhndzorUtogh thank you for noting the WP rules. Don't forget to follow them, too. Hew Folly (talk) 18:57, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah only one problem, the WP rule I referred to is for english wikipedia. What I was referring to in my edit summary is that Youtube isn't considered a reliable a source in en-wiki, per WP:NOYT. But I'm not aware of such policy for material in Commons, in fact many videos in commons have Youtube as a source. If there is a policy in commons similar to WP:NOYT you can let me know, but until then, don't make false analogies and don't use Youtube link as a justification for removing something from en-wiki like you did here.
 * Also as I already pointed out in my edit summary, this is a WP:GS/AA article, you're not allowed to edit it to begin with. I see you were warned of GS/AA on your talk too, yet all the warnings didn't stop you from reverting me and editing an article again that you're not allowed to edit. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 08:53, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * First, what happens on Wiki Commons, stays on on Wiki Commons. Second, as far as using Wiki Commons data for Wikipedia is concerned, here is the rule:
 * Quote: "Wikis, including Wikipedia and other wikis sponsored by the Wikimedia Foundation, are not regarded as reliable sources". Hew Folly (talk) 13:47, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
 * WikiCommons isn't used as a source in this article. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 13:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * If a video downloaded to Wiki Commons with a reference to YouTube is neither from YouTube nor from Wiki Commons, it can be regarded as sourceless with all the ensuing consequences. Hew Folly (talk) 16:35, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The video has Youtube as a source in Commons which many videos have there, I don't understand how you argue for it to be removed from here in english wiki when it isn't used as a source anywhere in the article. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 09:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Both Wikicommons and YouTube are indeed used as sources even though they are not mentioned as such in the article. Hew Folly (talk) 18:53, 5 July 2024 (UTC)