Talk:Rapid Bus

New rules for bus routes
How about we adopt rules as follow:

1. Name stations by Station Name followed by system i.e. Ampang LRT, Serdang Komuter, Maharajalela Monorail; except for city hubs i.e. KL Sentral, Maluri

2. Name bus routes from KL city outwards
 * a. For trunk routes, from city hub to suburban hub (Maluri-Chan Sow Lin LRT station - Serdang KTM Komuter station),
 * b. For local shuttles, from suburban hub to the residential housing estate (Taman Segar - Bandar Damai Perdana).
 * c. For inter-hub routes, either direction should be OK (Bandar Utama - IOI Mall Puchong - Putrajaya Sentral)

3. It would be good to depict all stops on trunk routes and there are only a limited number.

4. Stops for local shuttles and loops are too many to list, although effort should be taken to descibe the route passed. i.e. 634: Bangsar LRT - Bangsar Park - Bangsar Shopping Centre - Pusat Bandar Damansara etc. Same with city shuttles.

5. In general when describing landmarks:
 * a. name important building followed by (area/road name) e.g. Serdang Hospital (Jalan Kajang) - if the building is more important than the area
 * b. name important building followed by (area/road name) e.g. Ikano (Mutiara Damansara), Dewan Tunku Canselor (Universiti Malaya) - if building and area are equally important
 * c. if a bus stops at a train station, but not inside it, name the train station followed by (road name) e.g. the area 5 & 6 trunks that pass Bangsar LRT but not inside it, follow convention Bangsar LRT (Jalan Bangsar), while 634 is just Bangsar LRT

But with the exceptions:
 * d. name area/road name followed by (landmark) e.g. Jalan Kelang Lama (Shell/Honda) - if the landmark is just a convenient location identifier

6. If a bus stop is within walking distance to a train station, include it in the description with the qualifier "near" e.g. Jalan Pantai Baharu (near Kerinchi LRT)

7. Standardize road names etc. Use "Jalan" and not "Jln", "Persiaran" and not "Pers", "Taman" and not "Tmn".

8. Standardize highway and road names, as defined by other Wikipedia entries e.g. Damansara-Puchong Expressway, not LDP or Lebuhraya Damansara Puchong

9. Use tables to describe routes.

10. Names of train systems: LRT, Monorail, Komuter - not KL Monorail, KTM Komuter, LRT Station etc.

11. Consolidate all the bus routes of different areas e.g. all local shuttle routes go into one table, city shuttle routes into another, trunks into another, expresses into another. Separating them into different tables and sections according to areas is redundant as the route numbers already describe the areas they serve.

12. Maintain the general descriptions of areas as well as historical information of bus revamp and put it in another sub-section.

13. Put bus connection information inside the LRT pages itself also e.g. the buses that serve KL Sentral, Kerinchi LRT, Ampang LRT etc.

14. Consider creating a new entry for Rapid KL buses, like that of the LRT lines.

15. Bold rail connections and city hubs.

16. Indicate loop services.

219.95.135.5 12:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Zones/Dezones?
looks like stargirl85 was right. the hub and spoke system failed. it is confusing and it makes bussing v difficult. ppl dont really care what zone the bus is.

looks like the so called "bus revamp" and all the praises sung to Rapid KL was not so much for the new management, but rather because of the refurbished and new buses paid by Prasarana.

218.208.204.233

To Stargirl85: Original Msg: IMHO separating the buses back into zones is not useful to readers. Users wouldn't really bother to know which Area they are in. Besides the bus numbering already does that job. At the beginning of the article, readers are briefed about this system, so there is no use repeating it.

Furthermore, most people would not be interested in knowing the dates of the revamp when planning their journey. Hence I believe that putting all that "historical information" under the heading "history" is better suited.

I think dividing the route information into many bits and pieces like it is now is confusing. Readers would think that there are six different systems in place, when in fact Rapid KL launched the routes according to Areas out of convenience.

Please reconsider the case for grouping all the bus routes into types again. Thanks.

Stargirl85 15:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

---

I believe separating into zones is in fact useful for readers. We have laid out what zones consist of (ie. Zone 1 -CBD, zone 2 etc etc). The bus zones model follow the spoke and hub concept, where each zone has its own local shuttle routes, trunk shuttle routes (carrying a bigger capacity passengers) and serving people to the City shuttle routes(Zone 1-> the only overlapping zone with the other zones). So if we list them according to types, it will be harder to trace the route connection. For example, I am from KLCC wanting to go to the southwest region of the city (i.e. Puchong). With the listing by types (city, trunk, and local), I have to look at city first, and then have to match the bus route with the trunk, and then have to scroll the long list of local shuttle routes to find the suitable connection. Whereas, if southwest region is separate, the listing is a lot shorter and easier to find the connection route. Furthermore, it is easier to refer to the network map which are already being separated into 6 zones. I hope you understand what I am trying to explain here. :)

ABout the history, thank you for taking em out. I didn't have time to scrap them off.. yep they are redundant.

Rapid KL divided into 6 zones out of convinient because it has so many routes to consider and usually the passengers radiate into the city and out of the city from one area only. Hopefully, if we laid out the route names, important stops,interchange with rail lines, good maps (gosh, Rapid KL's existing maps are confusing), we can reduce the confusion. Thank you.

Let me know what you and others think. :) Zack2007 17:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes. You are right with zones being useful in that sense. It offers a general idea of direction.

How about we breakdown the local shuttles into areas and leave the trunks all clustered together? i.e.
 * City Shuttle Services
 * Area Two Local Shuttle Services
 * Area Three Local Shuttle Services
 * Area Four Local Shuttle Services
 * Area Five Local Shuttle Services
 * Area Six Local Shuttle Services
 * Trunk Line Services
 * Express Bus Services

Can this be a compromise between the need to reduce the clutter of having too many tables and also conveying the idea of the Area directions?

I think putting Trunk routes together, at the bottom (or at the top), would be preferable as the lists are usually quite short for each Area. Furthermore, there is plenty of room for ambiguity with these routes. Especially in Areas 5 & 6 where quite a number of Trunk routes are similar for most of the parts (Federal Highway). With other inter-area trunk routes like the T86 and others planned this is going to complicate things more! I don't understand Rapid KL's numbering system sometimes. 2T1? T21? Where does the 8 come from in T82?

Furthermore I think Rapid's assumption that most people work in KL city is questionable (although it is reasonable to assume many). There are plenty of offices in the Jalan Damansara/Duta corridor and other parts of PJ. And many educational institutions are in places like Subang Jaya.

If we can work out a better and clearer way to explain the new system at the beginning of this entry, then readers will know what to look for in the list of bus routes. How about drawing out the trunk routes just like the LRT lines? There aren't too many yet. If we can illustrate that they function like "trains", this might prove useful for first timers.

As for route details I am trying to fill in the blanks. Trying to understand Rapid KL's information on its website is difficult. Yes, the maps, worse! This is made worse when Rapid's route information is ambiguous. For example, Jalan Bangsar. Does it include stopping at Bangsar LRT and Abdullah Hukum LRT? And how about the Komuter stations along Federal Highway?

Another thing we should work on is to make the route information precise, consistent and informative. For example, PJ State vs. PJ New Town? And is Taman Bahagia New Town? Or is it "near" enough? KL Sentral vs. Jalan Tun Sambanthan vs. Brickfields? Lot 10 vs. Starhill vs. Bukit Bintang? Very important to encourage inter-modal use of public transportation and first-time users.

This is something very important that we need to settle, since the whole point of this exercise is to illuminate how the bus system and its routes work. Encouraging LRT/Monorail/Komuter users to continue their journey on buses. People who drive to work to consider using the buses.

As for the history, they are still important. They are "encyclopeadic". Although they should be kept in a separate part of the article.

What do you guys think?

Stargirl85 18:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I still don't agree with you. The Rapid KL network model focus on connectivity from city to the local routes. THat is from City shuttle->trunk shuttle->local shuttle. The route radiate out from the city through the 5 zones (though, zone 5 + 6 are actually 1 big zone). That's the information we need to tell the new users. Do you think by having one trunk route table and 5 shuttle route tables will convey this idea?

When we separate the routes (Zone 2-Trunk+Local, Zone 3-Trunk-Local, Zone 4-Trunk-Local). We can easily follow the route connectivity. (I'm thinking to put the network map site by site to the route zone because I find it easier to read the map first for a graphical and refer to the trunk+local listing of the specific zone to get a specific idea where it runs).

I just want to emphasize the need for trunk and local routes to be together under it's own prefered zone, or it will confuse more. And besides, trunk route has diff ways of numbering in different zones (T82, 2T1 etc), so it will create a mess if we put in the same table. Sorry stargirl85.. I dont agree.

so to summarize:
 * I suggest to revert back to original where we have the first point as the City shuttle routes, 2nd point as zone 2 and its trunk and local routes, zone 3 with its trunk and loca routes, etc)
 * Put the network map of each of the zones side by side to complement the listing so that people can cross refer it.
 * More information such as loop/schedules, and connectivity (i.e what titiwangsa hub connect with and which zone to enhance it's connectivity and to follow its hub-and-spoke model = hub(the city shuttle), spoke(trunk+local))

That's all for now, what do you think? Zack2007 02:37, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid I have to agree with Zack2007. The whole system has been based on the zones Rapid KL has drawn up as seen from their route numbering system. It is certainly much easier to follow a complete "door to door" route if the express, trunk and local shuttles routes are divided up according to their zones.

Furthermore, if you do not divide the routes up accordingly, the list of routes will be arranged according to the bus number, which means that you will have to already know the bus numbers beforehand to use the table. If you list according to zones, at least a first-time user will be able to narrow his or her choices to those in the relevant area. One will always know where one is already and where one wants to go, which is the best method to start searching for a bus route. Most bus guides will have an area index to refer you the the bus numbers for that area; a totally new user will usually go to the area index to check for route numbers first before going to the list of bus routes to check the bus route detail such as which road the route covers and where the bus stops are.

My vote would be for all routes to be organised according to zones, but with the areas covered by a particular zone clearly named. Better still if we can have a map at the beginning showing the zones are in relation to Kuala Lumpur. I'll try and contribute this when I find the time, if someone doesn't beat me to it.

It will still be good to continue having "academic" details such as history on this page. It makes it more complete and not just an attempt at being a bus guide (which the Klang Valley sorely needs). Of course, these should be kept separate from the "using Rapid KL buses" section and should strictly relate to Rapid KL buses only, and not Rapid KL in general.

Just a note to those who have contributed to the Rapid KL and Rapid KL Buses pages: You have been praised (maybe it is one of you contributors anyway) on a Malaysian blog on public transport for being more useful than the Rapid KL website, which, unfortunately, is not really saying much. Keep up the good work.Slleong 13:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I think I'll change my mind about it then. The Area system is useful and I think we should revert to that.

Although I feel that we should try to keep the thing as neat as possible, with not too many tables. Any ideas how we can do this?

Good idea with area index. I hope we can do it, but it's going to be tough. A lot of local knowledge, and subjectivity involved. My previous example:PJ State vs. PJ New Town? And is Taman Bahagia New Town? Or is it "near" enough? KL Sentral vs. Jalan Tun Sambanthan vs. Brickfields? Lot 10 vs. Starhill vs. Bukit Bintang?

As for network maps, I also agree with the suggestion to place them in the appropriate sections. Although I think they have to be redrawn as they are currently not very nice and usefuls:
 * inconsistent design: Area 1 vs others
 * very little information wtih regards to rail links (especially those other than Rapid KL LRTs)
 * very little detail

Sorry that I've rushed and pushed through the changes with the areas. I was creating the page and I thought that was a bright idea. I should curb my enthusiasm! :p

Stargirl85 16:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Slleong for the comments, and I hope Stargirl85 don't hold any grudge on me... We all work for the better of the transport system in Malaysia, right?

ok. after the revertion, i suggest that That's all. Stargirl85, do you use any software, or do it from scratch?I consider myself a newbie, and therefore do not know any software that would ease the pain of editing in wiki notepad
 * we add 2 columns to city and trunk routes, the first and the last column. The columns are meant to list down the route number it connects from and to (be it from trunk routes or local routes). This will improve the connectivity between busses route. For local routes, we add 1 column to one end where it radiates out to the city. In regards to rail connection, we can add them in the existing origin/destination column. THis will ensure less clutter, let say if we put them all in the same column.
 * It seems that the Rapid KL laid out plan based on buses connectivity, and some certain extend, some LRT connection. But seems to neglect the other mode of transport available in KL (what a selfish act, sadly), so we have to take this as a challenge to provide the best possible info for everyone. We can do it.
 * Unfortunately, I am currently in melbourne and cannot go and check them out one by one, and have to rely heavily on the Rapid KL maps and route description, I ask for others that have used the routes to help this out. What we wikipedian can do is to provide spaces and opportunities for others to eventually help us out to complete the data.
 * Drawing up maps are a little bit ambitious (but not impossible!), so I suggest we just rely on the existing map, as they are still reliable and we just try to provide the easy to read info from the map.
 * I guess it's ok to have many tables as long as they are clean, and we don't need to put every single stop for local routes as they become messy. ps. i have reduced the font size for the tables so that they look neater.

On behalf of wikipedians, thank you to the KL commuter blog. :)

Zack2007 16:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

- I use Dreamweaver to do my tables. You can use any html program. Then I copy the HTML of the tables and convert it to Wiki language: http://www.uni-bonn.de/~manfear/html2wiki-tables.php

But you might have to clean up the thing abit after using it.

Stargirl85 12:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

KL Sentral/major Hubs
I think we got some of our KL Sentra/Tun Sambanthans wrong. If am sure that the 100s run from KL Sentral.

And I have observed that Es and Ts run from KL Sentral, while the 5xx and 6xx run from Tun Sambanthan. But this I am not absolutely sure. I will try to confirm ASAP, but anyone in the hood who can check it out?

I suggest that buses in Sentral itself be noted as KL Sentral. While the others at Jalan Tun Sambanthan (KL Sentral).

I think one more thing we all can work on is to write a guide on the main transport hubs and interchanges. Like Medan Pasar/Masjid Jamek, KL Sentral/Brickfields etc, although I am not sure if this is not allowed by Wikipedia (no original content). Using these hubs can be quite confusing as there are many bus stops in these hubs and sometimes using the main ones may not be the best.

For example, there's the Brickfields Sri Kota bus stop which in some cases is better to change at, than going all the way to Sentral and having to cross the 'pasar malam' to get to your connection. Or there's Jamek/Medan Pasar, and it can be confusing to decide which exit to take at the underground station, and many people also don't realize that Masjid Jamek and Medan Pasar are very close together. Maybe something like a map?

Stargirl85 17:15, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Already confirmed. All 4xx, 5xx and 6xx terminate and start at Jalan Tun Sambanthan (opposite the Monorail Station) while all Ex, Tx and 1xx inside KL Sentral itself.

Stargirl85 14:47, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Connecting routes
I've added the connecting routes for city shuttle routes (for now its city shuttle first).. Do you think this is a wise idea to allow ppl to know what it connects from and to? Please comments. THank you... Zack2007 17:04, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I think it looks too messy and too complicated. I suggest that we start working on guides in using the main bus and train hubs instead. For the hub and spoke system to work, users need to have really good information about hubs.

Trying to squeeze all the permutations and combinations of connections for individual routes is a little unwieldy. Trying to explain the connections in a map should be much effective, although trying to produce a good one's going to be difficult. Stargirl85 14:56, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Good work on the connecting buses at the hubs being put in the tables. It may look a bit complicated at first but I think this is the only way to go with such tables (although I think replacing the "to" and "from" titles with "connecting buses" would be more appropriate). I also see that separate Wikipedia articles on bus hubs have been created. Although I certainly find them useful esp with the maps, I am wondering whether it belongs in Wikipedia. Ideally, all these should be in a guidebook/website specially for KL public transport.Slleong 07:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

thank you, slleong. Well, about whether the hubs should have its article, it is appropriate even though "ideally" it maybe better if we can create a website. I see many public transport wikisites from other countries have their own site for specific hubs. I think for the sake of Rapid KL and its unfortunate looking website, we can help contributing to a better understanding here. Zack2007 08:50, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Hentian Duta
Just wondering, does any Rapid KL bus go to Hentian Duta bus terminal??Zack2007 15:28, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Gray coded buses?
What is the gray coded buses for? Does it mean that they are the routes planned in the future? According to it, there is no local buses operated in Zone Six as for now. Is this true??? --Zack2007 00:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Improvements in Bus Service (Urgent)

 * Updated from Future Adjustments

News is out that the bus route numbers would be given a new format: City Shuttles, Trunk Lines and Local Shuttles will be prefixed by the letters B (for Bandar), U (for Utama) and T (for Tempatan) respectively effective 21 April 2007. Also, new routes and adjustments to existing ones would be made at the same date. E.g.:

"New routes include U44 from Bandar Permaisuri, U45 from Bandar Tun Razak, U46 from Desa Baiduri and U47 from Taman Segar that will all reach the destination of Bukit Bintang. T407 from Taman Bukit Segar Jaya to Taman Segar and T405 from Taman Cuepacs to LRT Ban-dar Tasik Selatan will remain the same."(Source: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/4/13/central/17414571&sec=central)

Update: Since the last update I've known that more than just new routes and number reformatting. Some routes will be removed beginning 21 April! Besides, the route types will have new official names: City Shuttle becomes City Bus, Trunk Line is Trunk Bus and Local Shuttle is Local Bus. Furthermore, it is apparent that Rapid KL will be less strictly adherent to the hub and spoke system which it adopted last year, i.e. even City Shuttles will not necessarily have a Hub as a route end, instead it may have an Interchange. E.g. B110 stretches from Mid Valley to Bukit Bintang via Bangkok Bank. PLEASE visit http://www.rapidkl.com.my to refer to the new routes and make prompt adjustments to the contents of this article. Another good reference is http://www.nst.com.my/NST/Article/vArt?did=20070418072154 Fanatix 15:54, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

New hub?
I think Jalan Chow Kit is a new hub. Probably replacing Titiwangsa on some routes. eg: U7 bus now begins/ends at Chow Kit not at Titiwangsa anymore as stated in the article. Not sure about other routes though. kawaputra tok2me 17:02, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

New page for bus routes
It's time we separate the bus routes lists into a separate article. The routes need to be in a list article. If no one objects by 27 of October, I will move it to List of RapidKL bus routes. --Zack2007 03:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it shouldn't be in a new article. It could be categorized under speedy deletion as it does not provide any useful information. My opinion, Keep Jannisri 07:43, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a directory, WP:NOT. Jannisri 14:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Please tell the other list of routes (there are hundreds like that).. --Zack2007 14:53, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It does provide a useful information as the main website is inadequate. besides, there are many lists of bus routes in other articles in wikipedia as well, such as List of bus routes in Queens, Bus routes in Singapore, List of bus routes in Brooklyn. These articles do not mix the general information about the services and the bus routes, while RapidKL buses does, making the article longer to load for those who only need to learn about the service, not to know which routes are there. So my vote is still Separate. --Zack2007 09:18, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Info on the RapidKL bus routes inadequate
Just to be clear, the current list of RapidKL bus routes doesn't seem to provide as much information (besides the origin and their destination) as the previous one accessible here. For example, try finding which bus leads you to Bdr Mahkota Cheras using the current one first, and then the older one to know what I mean. I support Zack2007 suggestion to move it to a separate page and in the meantime, just use the link I provided above to move around Klang Valley more efficiently. My.toa.badz (talk) 17:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

New fare structure
On 1 Sept 2009, day passes will be abolished. Refer: http://www.rapidkl.com.my/news/1-latest-news/135-newfares 60.48.228.42 (talk) 09:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)