Talk:Rapping/Archive 4

Semi-protected edit request on 16 May 2018
Bob Dylan used the essential elements of rap in his most of his songs 86.31.138.128 (talk) 11:16, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 13:41, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Additions to proto-rap?
The 1962 song "Rock Island," from The Music Man, is "considered by many Broadway babies and entertainment enthusiasts to be the very first rap song to be heard on Broadway" https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/SOUND-OFF-Special-Edition-Top-10-Raddest-Baddest-Rap-Songs-In-Broadway-History-20150805), while 1984's "One Night in Bangkok," from the Broadway hit Chess, became a #3 hit in the U.S., raised the visibility of rap with its striking music video. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.15.132.20 (talk) 12:42, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 October 2017
lexi + jardel — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.219.31.253  (talk • contribs) 12:11, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Georgx-sev Rap 2018 Georgx-sev (talk) 16:34, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Addition to diction and dialect
As part of a school paper, my partner and I will be adding an additional section to the "Diction and Dialect" section by discussing how rap music has taken subcultural aspects and words and integrated them into popular culture.Hayleyhills (talk) 19:18, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Pseudohistory tripe
“Griot traditions connect to rap along a lineage of Black verbal reverence that goes back to ancient Egyptian practices”. This ridiculous, unreferenced Pseudohistory claim from some falsifying black eghnocentralist trying to peddle ‘Ancient Egyptian were negroes’ nonsense, needs to be removed — unless of course they have a DVD recording from the Nile before Christ. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.136.107.234 (talk) 18:18, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

198.190.61.216 (talk) 00:19, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

List of male rappers listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect List of male rappers. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 19:17, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Non-wiki style writing
This entire section sounds really weird compared to the informative style usually seen. I don't feel comfortable trying to suggest a way to rephrase it, but hopefully by drawing attention to it, a more experienced editor can do so:

"The style that Hollywood created and his partner introduced to the Hip Hop set quickly became the standard. What actually did Hollywood do? He created "flow." Before then all MCs rhymed based on radio DJs. This usually consisted of short patters that were disconnect thematically; they were separate unto themselves. But by Hollywood using song lyrics, he had an inherent flow and theme to his rhyme. This was the game changer. By the end of the 1970s, artists such as Kurtis Blow and The Sugarhill Gang were just starting to receive radio airplay and make an impact far outside of New York City, on a national scale." 2600:8800:5980:1E60:E4FC:F983:2296:A971 (talk) 21:35, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

yo Dogg yo pro
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.255.72.138 (talk) 11:15, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2020
In the proto-rap section, in the second to last paragraph, in the last line, it would be helpful if "B-boying" hyperlinked to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakdancing. 50.59.52.2 (talk) 10:20, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * That seems like a good edit, if not already linked in the article. I'll make. --FeldBum (talk) 12:23, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * That link already exists in the lede, so didn't add a second time, but I did define in proto-rap. --FeldBum (talk) 12:25, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Street poet/poetry
Street poet and Street poetry should redirect here, and be covered in the lead. They're certainly more common in reliable sources than, say, "spittin[g]". These terms generally seem to always refer to rap and heavily rap-influenced poetry, and some rappers have preferred these terms to "rap" and "rappin[g]" (e.g. Danny Rodriguez and possibly Big Brown (poet)). I've redirected both terms here, but we'll need material added to the article to support it. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:35, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

PS: The history section may need tweaking to account for the influence of Big Brown and others, who were already sometimes called street poets, on the development of rap. This article doesn't even mention Brown, but our article on him says he was influential on rap and hip-hop. So, we need to get the story straight. Contradictions across articles are not a good thing. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:51, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Hiphop and Disco are deeply intertwined
I'm strongly opposed to this part:

"With the decline of disco in the early 1980s rap became a new form of expression. Rap arose from musical experimentation with rhyming, rhythmic speech. Rap was a departure from disco. Sherley Anne Williams refers to the development of rap as "anti-Disco" in style and means of reproduction. The early productions of Rap after Disco sought a more simplified manner of producing the tracks they were to sing over. Williams explains how Rap composers and DJ's opposed the heavily orchestrated and ritzy multi-tracks of Disco for "break beats" which were created from compiling different records from numerous genres and did not require the equipment from professional recording studios. Professional studios were not necessary therefore opening the production of rap to the youth who as Williams explains felt "locked out" because of the capital needed to produce Disco records.[30]"Hi

In the 1970's, disco producers deliberately made their records for hiphop artists, with things like longer pauses between the main song parts and the instrumental breaks, to make it easier to pin the needle to the right place. And that disco tracks were "high production" was perfect. Just like "No uzis [are] made in Harlem" (sampled om Immortal Technique's "Peruvian Cocaine"), eventhough the large majority carried a gun; in the same way, not many people had access to a recording studio, but as long as they had a record- or tape player / boombox, and with a real record for a couple of $, or a bootleg / radio-recorded tape, they could have high quality instrumentation to their flows. Even, to this day, high rep DJs sample records from the 1970s. They dig through thousand upon thousand of LPs, to find a unique disco-beat. Without disco, no hiphop - it's the natural progression, from one style, to the next.

Also, you're basically demeaning hiphop as "dumb", just like you did before with blacks. For once, take a look at Grandmaster Flash's or DJ Shadows' works, to see the genius that is sampling; the latter is even in the guiness book of world records. The style of Hiphop was a revolution - and democratization - in music making, and it's only evolved from there, in *any genre*; with the DAW Ableton Live being specifically catered towards DJs - and the fact you can now buy a high quality mic for a hundred bucks, a laptop for a couple of more, and you've got yourself a proper studio, which in many ways rivals the quality what you got with even a 1970's state-of-the-art production-company's gear, which took up several rooms of space - which can now be fit in a backpack.

{Tomas Emma (talk) 10:37, 13 September 2020 (UTC)}

Bad article
The noun "rap" in modern American English can denote 1) a criminal charge or 2) blame, 3) a prison sentence, 4) a clever improvised speech (black coinage, adopted and popularized by hippies), 5) an unstructured discussion, 6) a manner of expression, 7) a tiny amount, and 8) the musical genre. (Dalzell) The verb "rap" can signify 1) to strike and 2) to snatch away (Webster), in modern American English also 3) to talk aimlessly and 4) to criticize or accuse someone. Therefore the meaning of Isaac Haye's "rap" has little to do with the modern musical genre, because it precedes it. The first "rap" track is either Fatback Band's "King Tim III (Personality Jock)" or Sugarhill Gang's "Rapper's Delight" of 1979. If you also count spoken word/poetry as "rap", then the Last Poets and Gil Scott-Heron's "Small Talk at 125th and Lenox" (1970) would be among the earliest records. --83.137.6.234 (talk) 05:52, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The supposed African origin of rap (a pan-African idea worthy of Cheik Anta Diop) is unlikely, because English American slaveowners generally suppressed the African culture and music of their slaves, and rather tried to convert them to puritan Christians (think of gospel singing). The earliest American English black music (blues) dates to the beginning of the 20th century. In contrast, Latin American slaves from Africa had adopted the Spanish and Portuguese string instruments and melodies with their chanting and percussion, and the prolific genres of samba, rumba and son were created (including Shango, Yemaya and all that stuff missing in American English black culture). The roots of rap (or spoken poetry) are probably found in the declamatory readings of religious texts, like the Arabic verb qara'a (to read) which is embodied in the word Quran ("lecture"). This is related to the Nation of Islam aka Black Power Movement. --83.137.6.228 (talk) 23:25, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

I have changed the lede. As hip hop article notes, the New York scene where modern rap/hip hop came from was very multicultural so it is hard to pin down exactly where the genre came from. It does appear contemporary genres like funk and disco and Afro-Carribean DJs were particularly important. The lede gave too much weight to distant African influences while not actually explaining how rapping came from the role of the "MC". Anywikiuser (talk) 11:20, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

make page: science rap

 * Christopher Emdin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:4109:FECC:E07F:7C25:6641:C210 (talk) 11:57, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2021
Change picture of rapper from 50 Cent to Coke La Rock, who gets credited as one of the first Rappers, MCees. Although 50 Cent is more popular, I think it's more respectful to put a pioneer of the genre as an example

I'm not sure what credentials are used to pick the picture but I think Coke La Rock has them

Picture of Coke La Rock from his wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coke_La_Rock#/media/File%3ACoke_La_Rock_raps.JPG

Thank you for your time reading this

- fan of hip-hop 2601:585:8500:6160:FC34:E2BE:6DC2:296 (talk) 19:40, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: This would need to get consensus, and it's extremely unlikely to do so, because one of those names (even as an absolute anti-fan of rap) I recognise, but the other not at all. We're not here to right great wrongs by being "respectful to a pioneer of the genre". We're here to provide an accurate encyclopedic overview, and I think that providing a well known example is more in line with that aim. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 04:46, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2021
Actually rapping is poem a I'm turned into rap.

[] Notethan1234 (talk) 00:05, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Actually rapping is a poem turned into rap. Notethan1234 (talk) 00:05, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:11, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 August 2021
Andre Williams deserves to be cited as being the true "godfather of rap." Bacon Fat came out inn 1957 and was a hit that featured Williams' talk-singing style. It is the first proto-rap with any kind of influence. LemonSession (talk) 08:10, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Need a source describing him as such. Cannolis (talk) 10:29, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Suggestions
I think the nodding acquaintance/ acknowledgement part may be an abbreviation of the French rapport. Also I believe the term patois is like "pah! Trois!" As in"what you only speak three languages!" 2A00:23C8:2202:7000:9C0E:C362:74B4:83D8 (talk) 21:00, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): TeyahB.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:49, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Hayleyhills, Kpica016.

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 January 2019 and 17 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Qiuhanzhang827.

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"Hip- hop" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Hip- hop and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 13 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 20:38, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

"Musical Genres/Hip Hop" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Musical Genres/Hip Hop and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 13 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 20:42, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

"Musical Genres/Hip" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Musical Genres/Hip and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 13 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 20:49, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2022
Rap was used to describe talking on records as early as 1971, on Isaac Hayes' album Black Moses with track names such as "Ike's Rap", "Ike's Rap II", "Ike's Rap III", and so on.

This sentence is not correct.

It might be replaced by this version:

Rap was also a term used as early as 1970 to describe vocals recorded on Isaac Hayes' album, “To Be Continued”, with the title “Monologue: Ike's Rap I”, and then his next album in 1971, “Black Moses”, and more specifically on the titles Ike's Rap II, Ike's Rap III, and so on.

Explanations: The first use of the term “rap” by Isaac Hayes is mentioned in the previous album “To Be Continued”. It’s very easy to prove by checking the tracklist published on Wikipedia about this album.

Thank you very much.

AKM AKMOK74 (talk) 01:27, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ — Sirdog (talk) 05:35, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

rap song
rap 99.246.101.128 (talk) 17:34, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Deletion of unsourced original research on 10 March 2023
A now-indefinitely-blocked user, TotalFailure, with a grand history of populating wikipedia with his opinions, rarely properly sourced (see his talk page), managed to add one of his unfortunate flourishes to Rapping. Doubly depressing, these edits persisted for over a decade. I have now edited this soapbox material out.

Further to this, there is only the barest of threads of Euro- or Anglo-American influence upon the art form known as Rapping (distinct from hiphop music). Stop with the whining about Bob Dylan, sprechsegang, Scottish-this, Irish-that, Germanic-the other. Just because similar ideas developed, that does not mean that the earlier idea either influenced the latter or "is the earliest example of" the later idea. Similar ideas can develop independently, and that is a wondrous thing.

History is not history because your feelings are attached to your confirmation bias. WP is a source of truth because it has standards around sourcing and research. There doesn't have to be a Euro/Anglo-American (and I primarily suspect Americans of this original research, not Euro folks) imprint upon all great Western ideas or art forms. Please take a deep breath and admire something not because "your people" influenced it, but because your people had nothing to do with it. JGray (talk) 01:41, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Side note, this article still needs SO MUCH attention. A great big thank you to the editors who are trying to keep up with and manage the silliness that this article seems to draw in!! JGray (talk) 01:41, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

"Rap and hiphop" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rap_and_hiphop&redirect=no Rap and hiphop] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at until a consensus is reached. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 17:25, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Additional Citations Needed Flag
Can someone please remove the flag? It's been there for about eleven years now and I count no less than 30 citations (there are actually more) to at least 30 different sources. Why is the flag still there in the Roots section? 2601:18C:4303:4550:C91C:DA51:F975:A628 (talk) 03:14, 25 March 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅, thanks for the heads-up! &mdash; JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 22:34, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: First Year English Composition 1001
— Assignment last updated by Contehis (talk) 14:09, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Roots and Orign
Why is the Origin out of order. Why is the 1956 roots before the 1940's roots? I have a feeling the ordered is to fit someone's personal point of view. Can this be fixed?

Put the West African folk traditions, and 1920 and 1940 Blues, rooted in the work songs and spirituals of slavery, before it.

Chronological order? 2601:589:4380:1720:1CB2:AC95:9A1C:6B52 (talk) 13:47, 20 September 2023 (UTC)


 * This Version's Root section is in order: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rapping&oldid=590893002
 * Someone later changed it and put the 1956 root before the African roots, and Early blues, jazz roots. 2601:589:4380:1720:1CB2:AC95:9A1C:6B52 (talk) 13:58, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

R.A.P. acronym for rhythm and poetry
RAP means alot of things but the music got the name as an acronym spelling out rhythm and poetry 2603:9000:E107:8800:ABA5:AFFA:2E6:31AC (talk) 01:44, 8 September 2023 (UTC)


 * As discussed in the article, "rythym & poetry" is a backronym and not the real origin of the term. Ertal72 (talk) 02:28, 4 December 2023 (UTC)