Talk:Rare (company)/Archive 1

Caps
I added a POV disclaimer to the Future section, a lot of that was opinion/uncited.

The list of games needs an overhaul. Game titles and system names ARE ALL IN CAPS AND ALMOST UNREADABLE. At the very least, it's VERY ANNOYING. Anyone willing, please give a hand. :-) &mdash;Frecklefoot 20:31, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Article name and company history - Consolidated discussions
This should not have been moved from Rare to Rare (video game). Now most of the links to Rare are referring to this article, and the two dictionary meanings would never have their own rare article. BTW, Rare is not a video game. --Mrwojo 18:18, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I would agree...if the need for disambig is too high, at the very least it should be at Rare (company) or Rare Ltd. --Tubedogg 02:06, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)


 * I agree. The article should be moved again IMO to either Rare Ltd or Rareware. Rareware is already a redirect to this article. K1Bond007 22:49, Dec 29, 2004 (UTC)


 * I vote for Rare (with a short disambig statement at the top if desired, though I think the current Rare merely contains info that should only be in Wiktionary) or Rare Ltd. While Rareware is their official URL, as I noted in one of my edits I can't find anything suggesting that's their official company name, or that it ever was; I believe it is just an informal alternate way of referring to the company. (It could also refer to their development tools, akin to Criterion's "Renderware".) --Tubedogg 23:16, Dec 29, 2004 (UTC)


 * Their name was always Rareware, however, I think it was recently changed. If you go to their website their logo now is the giant R with "Rare" underneath. It used to the be the giant R with "Rareware" underneath. It's clearly visible on their old gamecovers; see e. It's like this all the way up to StarFox Adventures, which was their last game with Nintendo (I think - last big game anyway). The company name was mostly likely changed after or during Microsoft's acquisition, if it's a name change at all. They're probably just going by what they're best known as. K1Bond007 01:57, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)


 * After doing a bit of research on the subject, I'm content to say I don't know much more than I did 60 minutes ago. ;) I've read about 35 conflicting stories on their history, and the only thing they can agree on is that they were originally called ACG and then Ultimate. Though, one interesting point, in 1985 they opened a subsidiary in Miami called Rare Coin-It.


 * The reason I originally disagreed with the name Rareware was this profile on their site which seems to indicate that when they changed their name from Ultimate they went straight to Rare, as Rareware is not mentioned at all. That makes me wonder if maybe they published under the name Rareware for a while but were "officially" Rare Ltd the whole time. I'm gonna shoot an email to them and see if I can get clarification on it. --Tubedogg 02:38, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Whatever, I'm all for reverting to the page Rare and putting up a Rare (disambig) page. My initial post was listing alternatives to doing this though. Hopefully whatever you find out from that email though is useful since I too can't find anything definitive on their company. Like you, I've seen about 20 different stories on it all. K1Bond007 03:28, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)

I moved the article to this name before reading this discussion, and flattened the amazingly complex hierarchy of redirects. Sorry if this wasn't the name people had settled on &mdash; I'll help use my bot to move it again if not. Deco 20:00, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It should have been it's own Rare page and at the top "see other uses for Rare click here" JayKeaton 06:08, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't Rare (Video Game Company) and Rareware both redirect to Rare Ltd. That is their official title currently whereas Rareware was their old company name and Rare was just a shortend version of this. It would be able to have it's own title instead of 'Rare (Video Game Company)' Speed Demon 22:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello. So, is this company named "Rare" ou "Rareware" ? Thanks :) Draky 19:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * They are now called Rare. They were previously Rareware. Jeff Silvers 00:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot :) Draky 16:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

To Settle the Arguments Once and For All...
 * 1. The company has always been called Rare Ltd.. "Rareware" was just a brand name.
 * 2. The company was founded in 1982. I got this from their official website (or a previous incarnation of it, but they were founded in 1982). User:4.247.1.74 21:00, 18 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Incorrect. There have been at least three significant related UK companies: Ashby Computers and Graphics Limited (incorporated on 29/10/1982 and dissolved 19/11/2002), Rare Limited (incorporated on 16/04/1985, referred to in contemporaneous press as a division or subsidiary of ACG, now owned by Microsoft) and Rareware Limited (incorporated as Rare Toys & Games Limited on 17/09/1991, took its current name 30/8/95, might well also be owned by MS now?). Just to confuse matters, the RAREWARE trademark is owned by Rare Ltd. Paul Rhodes 12:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I've moved this page back, as per Naming conventions: ''Convention: The legal status of the company (Corp., plc or LLC), is not normally included, i.e. Microsoft or Wal-Mart. When disambiguation is needed, legal status, main company interest or "(company)" can be used to disambiguate: for example, Halifax (bank) or Converse (company).'' Andre (talk) 23:17, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Date of founding of company
The article says the company was founded in 1985, but also says that it published games in 1983/1984. Is the date of founding wrong, or is there another explanation? Enchanter 17:18, May 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Rare Limited itself was created in 1985, but its predecessor ACG was created in 1982.Paul Rhodes 12:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Rare's History - Ultimate
This article clearly needs more information about Rare's games for the Sinclair Spectrum, when they were called Ultimate: Play The Game. They were by some distance some of the best games of the era.


 * Actually there is an Ultimate page. Or, rather there was.  It was deleted recently then re-directed to the Rare page.  As I've been working on the individual pages for Ultimate's Spectrum games the last few weeks, I thought I might reinstate the Ultimate page then trim down the Rare page's Ultimate entries but put a link to the (updated) Ultimate page.  Sound OK?  --Plumbago 07:24, 23 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I got rid of it because it simply duplicated the content here. Perhaps if you create an "in depth" article on the Spectrum years it would make sense to recreate it, and put a "Main article: see XXX" reference here. But otherwise there's little point, and it will just break the flow of the main article. Bastie 13:58, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Ultimate Play the Game
I'm not about to change the page, because it seems as if history is against me. But there's just one thing, ma'am, that bugs me. Back in the day, computer magazines referred to the company as Ultimate. Their logo contained the text Ultimate Play the Game, but it seemed very clear that Play the Game was only a subtitle - as it appears in the top screenshot at Alien 8, for example, or the actual logo here. Over time the company name seems to have become a single, unpunctuated sentence rather than, as I always see it, Ultimate - Play the Game. I assume that the current staff at Rare are young whippersnappers, and it's probably too late to reverse the tide, and I'm too dignified to try and contact them about such a tiny point. I feel ashamed enough. I never even liked the company's games all that much. I prefered Stephen Crow's unofficial remakes for Bubble Bus. -Ashley Pomeroy 20:57, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Ultimate was the trading name of Ashby Computer Graphics Ltd. I don't think the company ever was called that. You can see clues in their games. For instance in Atic Attac the key has the letters ACG. // Liftarn
 * The "Ashby" in Ashby Computer Graphics is for Ashby-de-la-Zouch, the Leicestershire town in which the Stamper Brothers lived in at the time.
 * Just look at their old magazine advertisements: "Also available from ULTIMATE PLAY THE GAME, The Green, Ashby-de-la-Zouch" (etc.). Oh, and in the early "melting joystick" ad, "Ultimate Play The Game is a trade name of Ashby Computers and Graphics Ltd." Paul Rhodes 01:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Success and attachment to Nintendo
Is there any proof that GameCube has been as 'success' while Xbox is a 'failure'? Sales figure has shown that Xbox has outsold GameCube everywhere in the world except Japan.

Both consoles were deemed a success, one may of sold more, but that does not indicate failure in financial terms.


 * Whats meant with that, is that rares xbox titles is flops and starfox adventures did well. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.200.164 (talk • contribs).

Criticisms of Game play
Should it be an article about the criticism of game play of games like the Donkey Kong Series? Hell, even Shigeru Miyamoto was one of the biggest critics.
 * Only of one game which he later apologised for Guess who i am 11:25, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Gameplay is an ambiguous term for something that can be personal taste. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rarewhere (talk • contribs) 18:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC).
 * Still,it should be criticism article65.23.235.144 13:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Lost Trademarks

 * In early 2004, it was reported that Microsoft is attempting to acquire Rare's characters and trademarks that were made for Nintendo consoles from Nintendo and offered Nintendo $12.2 billion for the characters and trademarks. In February of 2004, it was reported through many gaming news sites and general news sites that negotiations were ongoing between Nintendo and Microsoft for Microsoft to acquire Rare's characters and trademarks from Nintendo. According to various articles, Microsoft has reportedly offered Nintendo approximately $20.2 billion for the trademarks and characters. As of 2005, it is unknown if Nintendo accepted Microsoft's $20.2 billion offer.

Does anyone know which of Rare's trademarks that Nintendo supposedly holds—obviously I'm not talking about Donkey Kong or Star Fox/Dinosaur Planet. Also, in the paragraph that talks about Microsoft trying to buy them from Nintendo, it said that Microsoft offered BILLIONS of dollars for them; that doesn't make any sense because they could try to buy all of Nintendo for the amounts given in the story, and even Microsoft couldn't afford to throw $20 billion just for a few trademarks. I changed it to "millions", until someone can show a link to a valid news posting that they really did offer that much. -- VederJuda 17:52, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

How much did Rare actually sell for?
Microsoft's SEC filing says they paid $377 million for Rare, $375 million of which was cash. This article says the Stamper brothers sold their 51% stake to Microsoft for this amount, and Nintendo sold their 49% stake to Microsoft afterwards. The latter claim is supported (possibly) by the very anecdotal and lacking-in-detail page List of commercial failures in computer and video gaming, which claims the number is reported to be around $700 million, which might be the 51% and 49% stakes added together.

What's the real story? I suspect that the number is $377 million and the other speculation is just wrong, because: Because I'm pretty sure the SEC filing is right, I'm changing the figures in both articles to $377 million. Does anyone have the real story to verify this? Thanks - Tempshill 18:41, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Microsoft publicly reported this, and didn't mention the 51-49 split afterwards, as far as I can see, and didn't say in the SEC filing that they were only buying 51% of Rare
 * $377 million is already astronomically high, and $700 million is more so, by a factor of approximately 700/377ths.

List of Rare video games
Would anyone object to splitting off the list of titles into a seperate article? I'm thinking of List of Rare video games, is there a better title? Right now the list seems to really clutter the TOC. Jacoplane 11:12, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I've created a page listing all the games that were on the main page. it's in alphabetical order. BillPP 02:27, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Inclinations To Do The Remakes
Rare and Microsoft are not inclined into doing the remake of Donkey Kong 64. They would be more inclined to do the remake of Diddy Kong Racing, even though they suppose that Diddy Kong Racing is better than Donkey Kong 64. --ZachKudrna18@yahoo.com

Yes, but in a recent Scribes page, Rare liked the idea of a Donkey Kong 64 remake for the DS, Rare could do it to because Nintendo owns the rights to Donkey Kong.

Timeline
Rare's own timeline differs from the timeline on this page. Not sure which is correct : I was sure that Cookie came out before Atic Atac... --Oscarthecat 20:42, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Media relations - fact suppression clearly at work
The newly added section is claiming that Rare's media-shyness is "due" to their relationship with Nintendo, but to me this doesn't ring true at all: the Stampers were always very media-shy. Even back in the Ultimate days, they never gave interviews or anything like that. Was there ever a time at which this attitude changed?


 * In a rare (no pun intended) interview back when they were Ultimate (or rather Ashby Computer Graphics) the media shyness was not intentional. They simply were understaffed so they had no time. 'No it wasn't,' said Time, 'that's the way it turned out, we were so busy producing a few products a year and making sure they were right. I think while we were full-time Ultimate, we only had two Christmas mornings off, and that's how hard it was. // Liftarn


 * Does anyone think that Rare has declined since the N64 days? I believe that Rare are jut forgetting about Nintendo, and are giving them rubbishy games from the bottom of the barrel.

Phalanxia :


 * Who keeps on removing the facts concerning the one and ONLY time the studio's ever let TV crew come and film inside? It's like the whole episode and the fallout that resulted is something that certain parties would rather forget and not let readers of this entry find out about.  I suspect this is either the work of RARE's internal PR figure: Simon Farmer, or maybe the work of MGS external PR agency, which is either RED of London, UK or Edelman of Seattle, USA.


 * If you don't think that "Rare's media-shyness" doesn't "ring true", then perhaps people here would like to explain / defend, why neither of the Stamper brothers has made a proper appearence at a MGS press event, or given a SINGLE interview since they were dragged out on stage at XO2 in 2002? I don't thing inaccessability is done for mystique anymore, just that MGS are too afraid to have the press pose tough questions to a pair who have helmed a studio into its worst years.


 * Don't worry RARE and MGS, as 1Up will be running a big expose of this huge mess and the office politics behind it, before the year's out. These pages are supposed to be about the truth and you can only suppress that for so long. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by StuntRaceFX (talk • contribs).

Re: External Links
I've added an article from Next Generation (next-gen.biz) on Rare's history. A great source for any editing purposes..

- R M 13:27, 2 September 2006 (UTC)R M

Removed "The 'TEAM Consolevania' taunt" section
I removed this section. Plugs for people's own little projects and/or little things people think are funny about the subject of the article in question do not belong in the article. The whole section seems pointless and doesn't seem like an improvement to this article. A better contribution would be a section for criticism about Microsoft buying Rare and/or people's frustration of thier new titles.Karatenerd 05:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

GoldenEye on Virtual Console
The article states that Nintendo would need Activision's permission to release GoldenEye on the Virtual Console, but not Rare's. Even though it contains characters currently licensed to another company, wouldn't the game still be copyrighted to Rare, ultimately meaning Activision could not license it to Nintendo? Jeff Silvers 14:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

There are too many companies involved with GoldenEye, I wouldn't expect it on the Virtual Console unless Microsoft and Activision work out a deal.

First-party or Second-party?
From the article: "Because of this, Rare is now a second-party developer for Microsoft's Xbox and its successors." Shouldn't this say that Rare is a first-party developer, since it is wholly owned by Microsoft? Also, the Wikipedia page on Microsoft Game Studios names Rare and Bungie as examples of MGS' first party developers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arkitus (talk • contribs) 13:59, 31 December 2006 (UTC).

Tour of Rare HQ
I created a link to a tour of Rare HQ which was recently removed from the article

any ideas WHY?

This is good in depth look into what is inside one of the most secret games developers —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wozzaofrare (talk • contribs) 05:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

not neutral
They were signed with Sony Computer Entertainement Europe (who made sure this defection was well publicised in the games press) That seems a bit anti-Sony, wouldn't you think? There's a lot of this stuff in the article, and it's not particularly neutral. Kelvingreen 21:31, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Big news
Rare's xbla title is gonna be a remake of Jetpac! I saw a commercial of it before watching the banjo 3 trailer don't know date it is coming out though.Marioman12 19:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Here is the site page Marioman12 20:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Virtual console
Important articleMarioman12 21:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Rights and royalties?
I was looking for info as to how the rights and royalties of games like Perfect Dark, Conker, and Banjo-Kazooie were dealt with. From the rumors I've heard, Nintendo has partial rights to those games. As a result, Nintendo gets royalty for Conker's Live and Reloaded, Perfect Dark Zero, and the soon to be released Banjo-Kazooie 360 game.

I can't seem to find this info. Can someone tell me if it's true or not? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.244.194.2 (talk) 11:43, 7 March 2007 (UTC).

No they don't if it was the original games themselves that might be a diffrent storyMarioman12 13:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Ultimate's arcade history
I've heard, more than a few times, from various video games publications that Ultimate (or individual members thereof) had a history of developing coin-op titles before their early Spectrum releases such as Jetpac. This has been cited as one of the reasons their games were so good and so well received. How true is this, and if there isn't any truth in it, where did it come from?

I came here looking for details of this, and the company history at the beginning seemed to jump through time far too rapidly. I don't know one way or the other. Mr.bonus 22:58, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Co-founder Chris Stamper worked for an arcade manufacturing company after leaving university, though I don't think the name of this company has ever been given. I'm pretty sure both Chris and Tim Stamper tinkered with the odd arcade machine in an amateur capacity too, before and after founding ACG/Ultimate, and indeed developed their own arcade hardware during the Rare days. Hopefully now they have both left Rare they might find the time for an interview or two, but for now reliable info on those two - just like on Ultimate itself - is pretty sparse. Hope that helps.  Mi re ma r e  18:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that information, I'm guessing it's all a bit too vague to be included in the article itself in any capacity though. Oh, and thanks for replying in a polite and courteous manner, it is never what I expect when I ask questions or make points on games forums (and even game related Wikipedia pages, usually). Cheers Mr.bonus 22:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem. It should probably be included in the Tim Stamper and Chris Stamper articles, or the sorely needed Ultimate Play The Game article, but I'm not really one for starting them from scratch so I'll leave that to someone else.  Mi re ma r e  19:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Ultimate Play The Game
I've restarted the seperate Ultimate Play The Game page as this article contains virtually nothing on it.  Mi re ma r e  18:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Tim & Chris Stamper
I've removed Tim & Chris Stamper from the Key People column from the article, due to the fact that they are no longer part of the company as of January 2, 2007.

Citation Needed for Rareless Virtual Console Titles
Although i believe it it needs a source.. Uch iha  23  08:44, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Mixed reviews...
Although sources are given for Rare's 360 launch games being "critically acclaimed", that sounds very biased coming only from the one website (Gamespot). In fact just one mouse click away (the Critic's Score link) you'll see that scores for Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero in particular have been as low as 6 & 5 out of ten respectively from several publications both off and online in the US and overseas. Both of the games having been reviewed as unoriginal, even by other major publications and websites. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Although that is true, the average rating for all of Rare's Xbox 360 titles has been betwenn 8.0 and 8.5 which are very good. Although, "critically acclaimed" probably isn't the right way to say it. --Otherranch 04:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

History
It seems that at the beginning of the article following the introduction, we jump straight to the history of Rare around 1994, with the release of Donkey Kong Country. Although the following history beyond this is excellent, we should add what happened before this. Rare was established in 1985, and released their first game in 1987, which means were are missing about nine years of Rare's history. Otherranch 04:49, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Modernrarelogo.jpg
Image:Modernrarelogo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 04:47, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't we mention
That they like to make really cartoony games? It's, like, their trademark. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 06:08, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's very true, and has been since the Ultimate days, but it needs to be backed up with a source if you know of one?  Mi re ma re  19:23, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

A question to Rare: Why didn't you hire Public Relations staff in the first place?
To "feed" the media with information that may seem sufficient to satisfy their curiosities. To give people some idea on what you doing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.110.100.128 (talk) 03:20, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

WILL RARE (COMPANY) LAST?
The rare (company) will be shut down on september 23 2013 expected or unexpected. This is KMJ 09... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.216.34.0 (talk) 23:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

History Gap
No mention of the NES era on here, I will resolve that.--0pen$0urce (talk) 17:14, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Rare Rebrands
Rare's new logos! We'll have to update the page. --TheLupineOne (talk) 17:46, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, change has been made, but now there's no sign of the 2003-2010 logo!--TheLupineOne (talk) 17:57, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Huge interview/coverage of Rare and its history in Retro Gamer
The December 2010 issue of UK magazine Retro Gamer featured Rare on its covered and included a full 15-page-long interview with four of its members (sorry, the Stampers aren't any of them). If anybody wants a copy of the section to look at in which to expand and cleanup the article, let me know, and I can work a way towards providing you one. –MuZemike 01:56, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I also have an interview (and brief history) of Rare and the Stampers in Nintendo Power's September-October 1988 issue if anybody is interested. –MuZemike 21:55, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Rare
We should write: Rare, Ltd. (1984-2010) is a British video game [...]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walecs (talk • contribs) 09:17, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

About renaming the article to Rare, Ltd.
I will intend to improve this article heavily, but first and foremost, I think the article's name should be changed to Rare, Ltd. I know this was already mentioned before but the current title is unclear and contradictory with the way the article begins ("Rare, Ltd. is a British..."). I suggest we move the article to Rare, Ltd. and then start the article like this: Rare, Ltd. (also known as Rareware or simply as Rare) is a British... <--Niwi3 (talk) 18:57, 08 March 2011 (CET)
 * Good idea. Drop the comma though, it should be Rare Ltd..  Mi re ma re   18:45, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I will move it right now. <--Niwi3 (talk) 11:14, 09 March 2011 (CET)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Just don't ask me to do it again - there are fifteen different variants on the name that redirect here, that must be some kind of record! JohnCD (talk) 19:28, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Rare (company) → Rare Ltd. — The name Rare Ltd. is used in most video games websites and magazines, and it is much more specific about the topic. --Niwi3 (talk) 11:22, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Makes sense to me. The formal name is shorter than the parenthesis! —Tamfang (talk) 18:29, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Nintendo 2012
Nintendo most definitely did not buy back Rare for $200 million, and they are definitely not working on Banjo-Kazooie 3 and Diddy Kong Racing 2 for Wii U. I don't know how to revert these false changes, but someone should. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cleveland Rock (talk • contribs) 01:26, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Can someone make an SVG of their old logo?
To anyone with the skills and resources, that would really help this article imo. 76.120.17.197 (talk) 16:22, 6 August 2012 (UTC)