Talk:Rashtrakutas

Reddys link with rastrakuta
In history I would like to tell some information. The Reddys are ancestors of rastracutas or rastrikas or rattodi and Marathas. They migrated to North South and handover the Deccan pleatue.

Can you make changes. Rastrika (talk) 06:58, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * already there. read history section. Nittawinoda (talk) 20:17, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
 * This view does not bear close scrutiny. The Reddies are at present scattered even over Tamil country and north-eastern portions of Mysore State: but their original home and present stronghold is the Andhra country. The Reddies of Mysore are undoubtedly of Telugu origin and those in Tamil districts still speak a broken Telugu dialect. which clearly proves their northern origin. If we suppose that the Rashtrakutas were the ancestors of the modern Reddies their original home will have to be located somewhere in the Krishna-Godavari doab. In that case it is reasonable to expect that they would have first come into prominence in that locality. As it is, not only did the Rashtrakuta expansion not begin from the Telugu-speaking area, but most of it was never included in the Rashtrakuța dominions. The Chalukya rulers overthrown by them were those of the main and the Gujrat lines. The Vengi kings continued to defy them down to their fall. The mother-tongue of the Rashtrakūtas was Canarese and not Telugu, as will be presently shown. The Reddies were a class of traders and cultivators and they are not known to have distinguished themselves by military exploits in any period of ancient Indian history. It is but once that they are known to have founded a kingdom, and that was after the fall of the Ganapatis of Warangal, when for about a century, c. 1350- 1450 A.D., they were holding portions of Krishna and Rajmahendri districts. The change of Rashtra into Radda or Reddies is also not possible in the Telugu dialect, though it can take place in the Tamil one. Under these circumstances it is not possible to identify the Rashtrakutas with the ancestors of modern Reddies.
 * Many Historians don't agree with Rashtrakutas as ancestors of modern Reddies, the above statement was taken from by Anant Sadashiv Altekar CatTheMeow (talk) 14:42, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Rastrika @Nittawinoda Reddi are Kannada landlords of Northern Karnataka. They are now counted as Lingayats. Lingayat Patidars use Patil surname, which includes multiple landed gentry like different Reddi castes, Vokkaliga castes, Brahmins turned Farmerss. There are Lingayat Reddis like H K Patil(KAR assembly) and Balangi Reddy(AP assembly).

Not only is Reddi being amorphed as Reddy, the word is being linked to Reddy caste of Andhra Pradesh. Very far fetched. Lingayat Patidar are the same type of "caste" as Reddys, but not same ethnic group.

Broader Lingayats themselves are more "aryan" than Reddys and genetically equidistant to "less dravidian" Marathas and Gujrati Patidars and "more dravidian" Andhra Reddy caste. Link : https://sldna.blogspot.com/2019/02/harappa-world-sinhalese-dna-admixture.html

And above all, there is evidence that suggests that caste differentiation had not taken place in medieval age. And in fact they were shepherds. Listing them as Dhangar(marathi) - Kuruba(kannada) shepherds. Link : https://www.firstpost.com/long-reads/kalyan-varmas-documentation-of-the-dhangars-reveals-existential-threat-facing-the-pastoral-tribe-7707161.html.

So, take it a bit slow on generalisations. North Indian articles usually list both Jats(agriculturists) and Gujjars(shepherds) as source origins for ruling class. Lets improve this article and work together. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basavaraj Patel (talk • contribs) 07:45, 18 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The article is quite comprahensive as such listing all possible origin theories. Any further improvements has to come with discussions in the presence of neutral admins considering this is a FA.Pied Hornbill (talk) 13:31, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Origin of Rashtrakutas
It has been well established in the article that Rashtrakutas were of Kannada Origin. It has also been mentioned that they were of Dravidian Cultivator origin. The chief cultivating caste of Karnataka are the Vokkaligas. Kindly mention the possible Vokkaliga origin.

Shetty, Sadanand Ramakrishna (1994). Banavasi Through the Ages. Banavasi (India): Printwell. p. 121.:“The community of the land tillers or agriculturists was known as vokkaligas. The importance given to the cultivation of land is amply demonstrated by the fact that numerous tanks were dug and irrigational facilities were provided at various places. Some of the Rashtrakuta inscriptions found in the Banavasimandala carry the depiction of a plough at the top. There is a view that the Rashtrakutas were originally prosperous cultivators, who later on dominated the political scene. Some of the inscriptions refer to them as Kutumbinah which is interpreted as meaning cultivators.”

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=cUhuAAAAMAAJ&dq=vokkaliga+rashtrakuta&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=vokkaliga+rashtrakuta Cyberanthropologist (talk) 04:56, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * That the early Rashtrakutas may have been Kannadigas is already emphasized in the article. The fact that the Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta were surely of Kannada origin has been mentioned again. No need to further give a caste designation as Vokkaligas. Makes no sense.Pied Hornbill (talk) 13:58, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Castes like Telugu Reddy, Marathi Marathas are mentioned in the article despite historians like Altekar proving the contrary (Even this is mentioned in the origin of Rahstrkutas article, but you’ve let Reddy and Maratha stay). Even obscure origin theories from Punjab are mentioned. It’s only fair that the Chief Cultivating Kannada caste, the Vokkaligas are mentioned.

Kannad origin isn’t sufficient as that is not an ethnic identity like caste. Kindly allow the addition of Vokkaligas for fairness and neutrality. Cyberanthropologist (talk) 14:07, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Of the various books that I have read up on Rashtrakutas, this must be the only one that gives a caste connotation to Kannadiga origin. Better to keep it general.Pied Hornbill (talk) 12:30, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Alright sir, thank you for maintaining the top knotch article. Cyberanthropologist (talk) 14:18, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Citation missing
Citation missing for the following sentence under Architecture section:

“Other famous rock-cut temples in the Maharashtra region are the Dhumer Lena and Dashvatara cave temples in Ellora (famous for its sculptures of Vishnu and Shivaleela) and the Jogeshvari temple near Mumbai.”

Were these temples built by Rashtrakutas too? Clarity needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:578A:90AE:8166:FF8F:F57E:AA30 (talk) 14:06, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Citations not clear
There are no proper links for editors to check validity of the claims in this article for example, in society section it is extensively given that sati practice was prevalent but no link is given for readers to cross check the fact. The para even goes as far as saying that there are examples of members of royal family self immolating but does not give any proof of it. Should this be allowed? MindOfOm (talk) 03:17, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Exaggeration
"At their peak the Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta ruled a vast empire stretching from the Ganges River and Yamuna River doab in the north to Kanyakumari in the south" This statement is not backed with evidence. 217.43.83.91 (talk) 00:07, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 27 February 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:12, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Rashtrakuta dynasty → Rashtrakuta Empire – The Rashtrakutas were an empire than a dynasty, the empire consisted of many regions, states and vassals or feudatories of different ethno-linguistical identity and their region, in modern India the states which were part of the Rashtrakuta extension were Karnataka, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh, Telangana, Tamil Nadu, Goa, Madhya Pradesh and their influence over Northern India & Sri Lanka, here is an Historian based work which shows the map of Rashtrakutas in his work which is mainly written about Rashtrakutas CatTheMeow (talk) 14:25, 27 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Support This article is clearly about the state and not the rulers. Arnav Bhate (talk) 14:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per CatTheMeow and Arnav Bhate. The article is written in the context of an empire/state. A different article should be made or expanded upon to talk about the dynasty themselves. Zemmiphobia007 (talk) 18:30, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject India has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Former countries has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 30 April 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 15:09, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Rashtrakuta Empire → Rashtrakutas – Ngram graph suggests that the term Rashtrakutas have been used throughout commonly, and much WP:RS refers it in similar way. In JSTOR, 320 results for "Rashtrakutas" 288 results for "Rashtrakuta dynasty", and 17 results for "Rashtrakuta Empire". The pattern repeats in most of the WP:RS Imperial  [AFCND]  18:54, 30 April 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 20:45, 8 May 2024 (UTC)


 * comment: The nominator of Requested move 27 February 2024 is banned for their disruptive behaviour to other editors; and their PoV pushing (for Kannada) actions aganist articles which didn't satisfy their PoV.-- Imperial [AFCND]  18:57, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: While the nominator may have been banned, the argument seems to be still valid. Is the focus of the article the dynasty (a line of kings) or the kingdom? Currently, it seems to be the latter. Redtigerxyz  Talk 12:01, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Whether it's referred to as a "Kingdom," "State," or a "Dynasty," we cannot label an entity as an "Empire" unless reliable sources and historians do so. The discussion on the 27th is purely based on WP:OR, lacking evidence or valid statements. While there were indeed many branches of the Rashtrakutas, the parent article should be the one that is more WP: NOTABLE than the minor branches. Ngram and keyword searches can determine which term is more suitable for WP:COMMONNAME and which is not. Imperial  [AFCND]  13:46, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose, @ImperialAficionado I will not say it again again that you cannot destroy the historicity of a Power just because of Ngram.
 * See the Wp: RS for the Name Rastrakuta Empire
 * History of Medival India from 800-1700 by Satish Chandra. Page no 12"Rastrakuta Empire which dominated deccan and also controlled territories in north and South India"
 * History and Culture of Indian People by R.C Majumdar Volume 4. Page no 4 "The Ganga king Srfpurusha Muttarasa was defeated, his crownprince ^ivamara was taken prisoner, and the whole of Gangavatjl was annexed to the Rashtrakuta empire"
 * Rastrakutas and their times by As Atelkar"Boundaries of the Rashtrakuta empire did not alter as a result of his successes against Vatsaraja and Dharmapala." Rawn3012 (talk) 11:23, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support either Rashtrakutas or Rashtrakuta dynasty, per English-language common name in reliable sources. Celia Homeford (talk) 11:49, 8 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Support: Same as @Celia Homeford. PadFoot2008  14:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Celia Homeford I thing you should check WP: Precise.The Rastrakutas were an Empire, source of it is given below as you can check them. You can destroy a Imperial Historicity of a power just because Ngram and other things. We should go with what WP: RS says. Rawn3012 (talk) 16:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support Meaningful. Capitals00 (talk) 17:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose That's not how we evaluate Ngram hits. It's obvious that Rashtrakutas would be more prevalent in sources as it refers to the nation and its people rather than an empire, a state or a kingdom. Consequently "Marathas", "Ghaznavids" and "Seljuks" are more prevalent than "Maratha Empire", Ghaznavid Empire" and "Seljuk Empire"  respectively, but that doesn't mean we should start renaming them. (Because it refers to common ethnic, linguistic and regional people as a whole not an empire, a state or a kingdom). Moreover we find scholars like RC Majumdar, AS Altekar and KA Nilkanta entitling Rashtrakuta Empire. Hence I don't see how nom's and above arguments of @PadFoot2008 and @Celia Homeford are valid at all.Based Kashmiri (talk) 03:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC)