Talk:Rat/Archive 2

Rats
This has nothing on rats! it gives no info people! I was tryin to look up some stuff on rats, and it gives NO INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I need:


 * birth weight
 * usual number of syblings
 * weight at 6 months
 * food
 * habitat
 * life span

And what do i get for looking for 2 hours? NOTHING! So if you are looking for ANY of that stuff...YOU ARENT GETTIN IT PEOPLE!

I HATE WIKAPEDIA SOMETIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hee hee! :D

-Erica —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.136.93.146 (talk) 22:13, 26 March 2009 (UTC)


 * well erica, it would help if you told us which rat you wanted this information on. the term rat refers to several species, and all this information is different for each one.  I would point you to first check out brown rat as they are they most widespread, other common rats include the black rat and rattus exulans. -- ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 01:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Verification that Rats get more domesticated the more generations they are in captivity can be found at: http://www.ratbehavior.org/WildAndDomesticRats.htm. It's a part of natural selection. I couldn't cite it myself. DigitalShepherd (talk) 16:56, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't think this article is meant for specific information regarding breeding rats. 3dec3 (talk) 16:54, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

24.50.151.151 (talk) 22:42, 7 November 2014 (UTC) My library has a great book on RATS. Very informative, just what you are looking for. I was amazed; they can survive 3 minutes submerged, can pass thru any hole the size of their head as they can collapse their rib cage, knaw holes in concrete, and they swarm like locusts due to density except when they move they are restricted to tactile contact with a another rat or curbing. Even lately there were villages in Mexico that were rat free due to the fact there were no paved roads to the village!!! As to breeding, a couple control a territory and their prodigy are excluded upon weaning to fend for themselves and often end up in the borders between territory where they live a horrific short life starved and ridden, eating their own pups. I had nightmares after reading that.

Nat Geo has an older article that claims rats have rat leprosy identical to humans and remember that science claims that it was impossible to find an animal carrier of leprosy? Until armadillos? 24.50.151.151 (talk) 00:16, 8 November 2014 (UTC) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/nature/rat-attack.html

Rats in medicine
We have a medicine section but no mention of the use of rats in diagnosing illnesses such as TB and cancer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.194.87.101 (talk) 07:41, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * check out working rat -- ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 01:29, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

rats are very interesting creaters. Some don't even like cheese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tgbyhn1 (talk • contribs) 01:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

In Culture
Why is Splinter from Ninja Turtles not mentioned as one of the positive portrayals of rats in culture? There was an entire decade when "Splinter" was the #1 most popular name for pet rats just because of that character!


 * Splinter was actually mentioned at one time over at Pet rats, however, due to the lack of third-party coverage about his role it was felt that the information was extraneous. If you could find a reference for your claim about it becoming the most popular name i think we could justifiably add that information to the other article. -- ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 18:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

AND WHAT ABOUT THE MOST FAMOUS OF THEM ALL: MICKEY MOUSE and MINNIE. OK, YOU COULD SAY THEY ENTER IN THE MICE CATEGORY (where they are also NOT mentioned). BUT HERE IN WIKIPEDIA IS WRITTEN THAT MANY CULTURES DO NOT MAKE DIFERENCE BETWEEN RATS AND MICE (which is true). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.196.80.60 (talk) 12:26, 12 April 2012 (UTC) JERRY MOUSE: A fictional animated character, is the main protagonist in Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer's series of Tom and Jerry theatrical cartoon short films. Created by William Hanna and Joseph Barbera, Jerry is a brown anthropomorphic mouse, who first appeared in the 1940 MGM animated short Puss Gets the Boot.[1] Hanna gave the mouse's original name as "Jerry",[2] while Barbera claimed the mouse went unnamed in his first appearance
 * Since those examples are all clearly mice I see no obvious reason why they should be included in this article about rats. I suggest you take it up on the talk page of the mouse article instead. --Saddhiyama (talk) 15:55, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Splinter is a rat. And many cultures don't split rat and mouse into two different animals whatsoever. It exists only rats as mentioned in this Wikipedia page. I bet a LOT of people are frustrated when reading rats in culture and not finding those three. That doesn't look good for Wikipedia. Why you just don't add it? Is that too much to ask? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.196.80.60 (talk) 03:00, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Difference between mice and rats?
It seems like an obvious section (Diff. between Rat and Mouse)... but I can't find it. Also, the "Rattus" genus page is nearly the same as the "Brown Rat" page? Can those be merged? Gpia7r (talk) 13:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * the "differences" between mice and rats are covered in the second paragraph of the lead. If you can think of more to say on the subject, feel free to add a section in the main article.  Regarding a merge, read through WP:MERGE and if you still feel a merge would be helpful to the project, use the appropriatye templates to start the discussion.  I will let you know my opinion though... the Brown rat is one of the most influential species on our planet, after humans, and has a close history with our civilizations over, at least, hundreds of years.  This cannot be said of the Rattus genus as a whole, and they are distinct, although related, topics.  Wikipedia does not have a deadline, and even though i agree both articles need a lot work - merging them right now is not going to faciliate that work. -- ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 18:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Makes sense. I agree they need work, and we can just leave it at that.  Just seemed very similar, and I didn't consider the other effects of a merger. Thanks for the response. Gpia7r (talk) 20:08, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Rodents
This is a notice to inform interested editors of a new WikiProject being proposed at WikiProject Council/Proposals/Rodents --﻿ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 02:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Rats have indeed very important jobs. I know that in Africa rats are trained to find land mines, they can smell them. That's something that could be mentioned in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.81.124.209 (talk) 18:55, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

working rats
Rats have indeed very important jobs. I know that in Africa rats are trained to find land mines, they can smell them. That's something that could be mentioned in the article.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rat" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.81.124.209 (talk) 18:57, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * and we do indeed link to the article Working rat. --&#65279;ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 19:27, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Please Fix the broken link to Brown Rat
There is a Wikipedia article on brown rats, but the link to it at the top of this page is broken. Please fix.

-Matthew D'Asaro February 10, 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Medasaro (talk • contribs) 03:19, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I see no such broken link. Compare WP:NOTBROKEN: links to redirects are still functional and need not be corrected. Ucucha 03:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Species of Rats
Sikkim rat is listed twice, once as //Rattus andamanensis// and once as //Rattus sikkimensis//... which is correct? Also, should this list be alphabetised? 24.84.178.199 (talk) 07:32, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Midge —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.145.135 (talk) 09:33, 8 March 2010 (UTC)


 * they are the same species, several animals are identified at various times and given names only to discover that later it was not a new species, i will address this instance. --&#65279;ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 01:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Diseases
I think citation is needed for the part about domesticated rats being more disease prone than their wild counterpart. Rats have been pets for about 130 years. This isn't much time for bad inbreeding to occur. Rats are actually clean animals.

3dec3 (talk) 16:52, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Rats swarm
Although rare events, there have been cases of overpopulation causing the rats to "flood" an area eating everything they can on their way, including resorting to cannibalism. I'm not sure how to call this exactly, but found no reference to that in this article. If someone knows more about this, it would be nice to add. Thanks, 66.11.179.30 (talk) 23:55, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I found out that this is most commonly called a "swarm" and modified the subtitle to reflect this. 66.11.179.30 (talk) 02:19, 15 November 2010 (UTC) 24.50.151.151 (talk) 22:33, 7 November 2014 (UTC) I remember reading an article referencing the 50 year periodic outbreak of rats from a valley between India and Nepal? due to the flowering and death of the bamboo. http://www.projectmaje.org/mautam.htm

Species doesn't decide...
Rat and mouse are one of only 2 pairs of animal terms I know for which species doesn't decide which term it gets. Namely, rat is for larger members and mouse is for smaller members. The other pair I know is cow and ox. Cow is for animals used as meat or milk; ox is for draft animals. Any other pairs of animal terms like this?? Georgia guy (talk) 00:02, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Pigeon and dove? I don't think it's actually true for "mouse" and "rat", though: usage of the two is in fact determined by the taxonomic group to which the species belongs. For example, species of the genus Oligoryzomys (which I think are generally about as large as the house mouse) are called "pygmy rice rats", but the species of Neacomys, which are closely related and similar in size, are called "bristly mice". Ucucha 03:44, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * i think genus is about as large a group that you can say will apply to either a "mouse" or a "rat" - the subfamily Neotominae springs to mind instantly as one that includes both. --&#65279;ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria

Rats as pests
That is the most common way they are viewed by the majority of the population! Why is that not even a subject on this site? I'm guessing the rat lovers have never experienced infestation of their home, or rats chewing the brake wires on their car! Unbelievable! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rob gerein (talk • contribs) 23:48, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * you are right that this is how rats are most commonly viewed in the western industrial world, and the article mentions this is in Species and description along with European cultures (although admittedly biased in the latter). However rats are mainly seen as a food source in Africa and in some Asian cultures, and even revered in some Indian cultures. The article on the Brown rat covers the topic of it's role as a pest species, as that is the species most attributable. --&#65279;ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 00:38, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

The main concept that rats are a pest that should be dealt with accordingly, especially when infesting a home, is not properly or even realistically dealt with anywhere in this extremely biased Wikipedia article. I can't believe this nonsense is still being portrayed as factual information. There could be millions of examples detailing cases in which rats have spread disease, and consequently, directly or indirectly, caused death to humans, including the Plague. But instead, it reads like some biased manifesto written by a member of the Rat Lovers' Association. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rob gerein (talk • contribs) 00:15, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree, im sure rats are nice pets but there has to be sections on disease and the viewpoint of them being pests. Millertime246 (talk) 00:19, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


 * This article is about the Rattus genus, and not every rat is the Brown rat or the Black rat, which are the biggest mammalian pests. You can read about how horrible they are in their respective articles. 74.36.132.106 (talk) 21:58, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

rats eat humans if they are hungry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dirtyblackratpoo (talk • contribs) 07:30, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Medicine
This section (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rat&action=edit&section=7) is really bad. It's unattributed, purports to refute something that is considered common knowledge by many. I'm all for shattering myths and correcting misconceptions but without a source cited what's the point? Not to mention it is poorly written and punctuated and it doesn't really even make sense.Hexrei2 (talk) 23:17, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2013
There is no law against feeding live mammals to snakes in the UK as this article suggests.... Please edit as appropriate. Whoever believes this to be the case should reference their source of this fallacy.

82.71.16.91 (talk) 00:51, 31 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format.  Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 17:13, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Ratzilla
Hi, what species of rattus is Ratzilla ? IQ125 (talk) 14:35, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Rat meat in Vietnamese cuisine
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=81341

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2518121/Vietnam-restaurant-offers-roasted-rat-stick-local-delicacy.html

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_22502204/vietnamese-eat-rats-and-are-aggressive-stanford-professor

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/lifestyle/rat-meat-menu-vietnam-border

http://www.travelchannel.com/video/would-you-ever-eat-a-rat-12048

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=421_1387157030

Rajmaan (talk) 22:22, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2014
"Robert Thorndike, for example, provided strong evidence for g in rats by the use of a variety of tests such as mazes, problem-solving tasks, and simple Operant conditioning (Thorndike 1935). Performances tended to correlate across tasks, with stronger associations found between mazes and problem-solving than with simple avoidance tasks. Thorndike (1935) also reviewed a dozen earlier studies which also suggested that the highest correlations are found between more complex problem-solving tasks. However, it should be noted that there were other contemporary studies that found split or near zero-order correlation matrices for other populations of rats across cognitive batteries (see Royce 1950)."

- REF:quote from 2002 Galsworthy et al "Evidence for general cognitive ability (g) in heterogeneous stock mice and an analysis of potential confounds"

Tifmiller (talk) 22:15, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * All the sources I can find say "avoidance", not "Operant". Eg http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1601-183X.2002.10204.x/full says "avoidance". Stickee (talk) 01:21, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Galsworthy et al. (2002) ref. formatting changed so it stays in this Talk entry, rather than being forced to bottom of page. Note also, the Galsworthy ref. is incompletely given, and non-standard in format. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 04:36, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Moving rat image here, in advance of returning it after discussion
Here is an image that featured prominently in the article, near its opening, in a section having nothing to do with the image content, meaning, or implications:

I propose we discuss where it should be in the article (leaving room if any might say not at all). I personally feel it is fine, though its place should be near the article's cultural material, and not in the vicinity of the general biological information as it was when I began editing today. A further reason to have this discussion is that the prominence of this image -- which is of a human caricature of the species, and not of the species itself -- has led to it being the image of choice when "rat genus species" or similar searches are performed, using Google. That is, the Google engine pulls text from the WP lead, and for some reason, pulls this photograph, of the several alternatives it could choose, to represent this subject in their return of WP information. This is a poor reflection of the content of the article, and on the article subject itself, and so I ask that this image remain in talk for a time (a fortnight), so that the Google engine pulls a better, more representative animal image. Note, I have suggested to Google that they instead present an image of a dam with her litter, and I repeat that suggestion here (so that one might be found, and added prominently to the article, as a better representative of the subject and article, than a man-made caricature). Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 04:32, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Nepal.rat.JPG

Incomplete Refs to MOUSE literature removed, moved here
These appeared, to my great chagrin, in all of their misguided and incomplete glory, in the rat general intelligence section of this article: The flaws of each are noted, and in themselves would have made removal an option. The fact that near all are deadlinks, and appear (a) to be solely primary literature, and (b) to have as their object Mus, rather than Rattus, leads me to move them here (with recommendation that they find a home elsewhere, if they wish to avoid the dustbin). Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 05:37, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Locurto and Scanlon FULL AUTHORS, 1998, "Individual differences and a spatial learning factor in two strains of mice (Mus musculus)," JOURNAL, VOL., PG. NOS., ETC.
 * Matzel, FULL AUTHORS, 2003, "Individual Differences in the Expression of a "General" Learning Ability in Mice," JOURNAL, VOL., PG. NOS., ETC., see, accessed 24 September 2012.
 * Matzel, FULL AUTHORS, 2004, "Novelty-Seeking in Outbred Mice Covaries with General Learning Abilities Irrespective of Stress Reactivity, Emotionality, and Physical Attributes," JOURNAL, VOL., PG. NOS., ETC., see, accessed 24 September 2012.
 * Kolata, FULL AUTHORS, 2009, "Domain-Specific and Domain-General Learning Factors are Expressed in Genetically Heterogeneous CD-1 mice," JOURNAL, VOL., PG. NOS., ETC., see, accessed 24 September 2012.
 * Matzel, FULL AUTHORS, 2011, "Individual Differences in Animal Intelligence: Learning, Reasoning, Selective Attention and Inter-Species Conservation of a Cognitive Trait ," JOURNAL, VOL., PG. NOS., ETC., see, accessed 24 September 2012.
 * Locurto FULL AUTHORS, 2003, "TITLE NEEDED," JOURNAL, VOL., PG. NOS., ETC., see [URL NEEDED], accessed DATE NEEDED.
 * Locurto FULL AUTHORS, 2006, "TITLE NEEDED," JOURNAL, VOL., PG. NOS., ETC., see [URL NEEDED], accessed DATE NEEDED.