Talk:Rat City Roller Derby

Proposed deletion of article
This article has been proposed for deletion. See Talk:Roller derby for discussion. —mjb 04:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

This article is about a significant case in a cultural trend, arising spontaneously in many cities. The team specific article covers a topic at least as notable as the plethora of wikipedia articles about obscure characters in video games. Furthermore, the Rat City Rollergirls are going to the championships where they may become the national champions this year, beating the team from Texas which was the subject of a series of television programs. What more do you need for notability? Do not delete this page! Michael J Swassing 05:46, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

It is my understanding that as the creator of the article I am not the one who should remove the tag for proposed deletion, however, as the content of this article establishes, the time has come to remove the tag: * "Roller derby enjoys rollicking resurgence,"  Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Sports, Friday, August 17, 2007. Michael J Swassing 18:17, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Look, pal, I'm starting to get a little impatient here. There is a Wikipedia article for Sanjaya Malakar, there is one for Shelbyville, one for Pia Zadora and one for the Spice Girls Greatest Hits album, which has not yet been released or reviewed. Maybe it will be great, and change the history of music, like Miles Davis. But most likely it will not be as notable as the Rat City Rollergirls. It is precisely because articles like this one require continuous effort to prevent their deletion that wikipedia is fast becoming an expanded version of TV Guide. Michael J Swassing 04:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The wikipedia process is to nominate for deletion, see Deletion process, and that is done on an article-by-article basis. If you wanted to propose this for deletion, then you should follow the steps outlined.


 * But, I really can't see how an article in this state could ever be deleted. It's got plenty of references to establish notability, so I would assume that this discussion is closed. Fredsmith2 19:00, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh hell No. If there is thousands of pages on Dr. Who than the biggest rollerderby league in the US is Wikipedia worthy. --8bitJake (talk) 23:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Remove non-profit reference?
This is similar to the comment I made on Talk:Minnesota RollerGirls, which was:

"How can you be an LLC and a not for profit at the same time? I think it's probably a mistake on the page that they are not for profit. Just because an organization isn't making a profit or isn't making much of a profit, or even donates all of their profits to charity, doesn't make them a 501(c) organization. Fredsmith2 00:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)"

Even though this isn't the place for non-profit advice, It's probably a bad idea to claim Rat City is a non-profit, or functions as a non-profit, until they're recognized by the IRS as a non-profit. The accounting assumption is that every for-profit corporation, which is what all LLC's are, is trying to make a profit. If Rat City's trying to eventually become a non-profit, and it's documented somewhere, we could change the wording from: "is registered as a limited liability corporation, Rat City Rollergirls, LLC, but functions as a non-profit organization." to "is registered as a limited liability corporation, Rat City Rollergirls, LLC, but is working toward becoming a non-profit organization."

Or another idea would be to quote some of their charter, and take out the non-profit wording. I'm not sure how their charter goes, but I'm guessing their charter would be pretty inspiring, and might convey better about what they're trying to accomplish than "non-profit" wording.

Tucson Roller Derby become an actual non-profit organzation, and they say the benefits are:
 * The City of Tucson owes ya'll a big ol' refund check for City Sales Taxes paid 4.1.04-8.7.06 -- which is a hellova chunk o' change in the coffers!
 * Donations to TRD are tax deductible!
 * This took a lot of work, a lot of patience, a lot of foresight from day one, and I believe this makes TRD the first league to be recognized as a 501(c)(3) organization.
 * TRD's non-profit status is effective 4.1.04 - 3.31.09.

Fredsmith2 18:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a good point and I will start to look into this. So far I have not found any reference to one of the IRS's code 501 exemptions.  The text I put into the "Business structure" section was intentionally ambiguous, stating that they "function as a non-profit."  And that the skaters are not paid.  As near as I can tell, it is a business structure without profits, and with a defining purpose that is not profit oriented, rather than a charity organization per-se.  I agree that the charter would be a good reference to have, and will see if I can find information about that. Michael J Swassing 14:56, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Wording with non-profits can get sticky, and the IRS doesn't like it at all when a for-profit corporation claims to be or to control a non-profit corporation.  It sounds like it would be better to remove the non-profit wording, and talk about how skaters don't get paid, and how they in fact pay dues, how they do it for the love of the sport, how the owners of the LLC plan on continuing indefinately even though they may never generate a profit, how they plan on donating future profits to charity, how the skaters contribute a lot of time to various charities, how they raise money for non-profits, etc.  You could say any of those and be okay. Fredsmith2

Your point is valid, I've removed that statement, and will go looking in the source materials for something along the lines of your suggestions which can be backed up with a citation. Michael J Swassing 14:47, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Updated the filing status to non-profit and added the WA state biz registration link pointing to that. Seattleretroguy (talk) 19:50, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Derby names opinion
My opinion is that people should be referenced by their derby names, mainly, because that's how they're referenced from within roller derby.

I think that their real names should only be disclosed in these articles if there are a lot of news articles that reference the person by name.

So, my recommendation is to change:

Jessica Bloom, who skates under the pseudonym "Holly Knockers" for the Socket Wenches, is the owner of Northwest Bloom Ecological Landscape Design, and is also the president of the Coalition of Organic Landscapers.

to something like:

Holly Knockers, skater number 4 for the Sockit Wenches, is also Jessica Bloom who is the owner of Northwest Bloom Ecological Landscape Design and the president of the Coalition of Organic Landscapers.

But, with this example, I'd probably remove the information about what Holly Knockers does in her spare time, because it doesn't seem to be heavily referenced in relation to roller derby. Like, if there were a number of newspaper articles that highlighted her whole life, tying it into roller derby, I think that would be different.

So, I'd probably change the section to just:

Holly Knockers is skater number 4 for the Sockit Wenches.

I guess I'm just worried that some derby girls may want to preserve some anonymity about their personal lives, especially since they haven't reached full celebrity status yet, and I think that the articles should be respectful to that. My opinion is that all WFTDA teams are probably notable, but there are probably only a few individual skaters who are currently notable. This section, WP:LIVING, kind of talks about that.

Fredsmith2 19:28, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The standard for notability of persons included within an article is lower than the standard for notability of persons to have an independant article about them. The inclusion of the names of persons who are cited in news accounts as participants seems reasonable.  And because roller derby is an amature sport, it seems to add interest to the article, and dispell stereotypical assumptions, to have some information about their day jobs and notable other activities.  It seems more encyclopedic to list participants by their real names rather then the charactors that they portray for sport, but to include that information about them in the item. Participants in roller derby who seek anonymity will probably not be giving their real names and day jobs or notable other activities to newspaper reporters, documentary film makers, or radio interviewers.  There is more information about other participants available in published reports, but there is a reasonable concern about whether the list should be expanded for completeness or limited by usefulness, interest, and verifiability of the information.198.187.135.179 19:20, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean for that to be a sock-puppet, I was just at the library when I wrote the comments above, in response. One more thing, any rollergirl who wants info about her removed here, even though it is cited from a previously published source, will have no difficulty in removing or asking to keep it off. - Michael J Swassing (talk) 02:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

2008 Season and the Rust Riot
I need to update the page with info from the 2008 season and the 2008 Rust Riot. Also I need to expand on the announcers and the Lightning Fist of Science --8bitJake (talk) 23:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

mascots and photos
I need to write up a section on the league's mascots and post some photos. I have some creative commons licensed photos I took at the last bout that would be great for this article. --8bitJake (talk) 18:13, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Sbux logo pre 1987.jpg
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Devil's advocate: Why so much detail on the independent kids' league?
I think a sentence or two about the kids' league that exists in Seattle. Because of WFTDA's 18+ rules, it's not part of Rat City Rollergirls, it's a separate organization.

In addition, JFTDA has renamed itself to JRDA (Junior Roller Derby Association).

Unless it can be established that the junior league is part of Rat City Rollergirls, does their support of the children's league merit more than a sentence or two? TimBRoy (talk) 18:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Photos requested
Need photos of an actual event. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 19:31, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

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