Talk:Ratan Tata/Archive 1

The article said that Ratan Tata would have been the richest Indian had he not established the Tata Foundation, which engages in charitable work. This is definitely a PoV statement as the claims made thereof cannot be verified. I have changed that to the current version Rao.tushar 10:46, 28 December 2006 (UTC)rao.tushar

An excessive proportion of the text is devoted to -

[1] The (supposed) board-room tussle between Tata and Mody [2] The Rajan Nair incident

Surely there is more to the 65-yr-old Mr Tata's life than the odd entanglement with disgruntled employees.

This almost looks like a vanuty page. ςפקιДИτς 14:14, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Addition of the NELCO years, the TELCO labor dispute, the Russi Mody controversy and Globalization initiatives
Hi all, I propose the addition of the NELCO years, the TELCO labor dispute and the Russi Modi Controversy in the Career. Ratan has himself admitted that these three events defined his career growth path. Also, now Ratan is credited with the globalization of the Tata Group of Companies.

We should include all of them as they shaped his life as a business executive.

Regards,

Venkatesh--Venkatesh 11:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I request people to contribute more to "Early days" section of this article. Ajay

Linkspam
Jergens

I have added a link to a compilation of recent articles on Ratan Tata, that are found on Parsi Khabar. I do not see any reason, why you should delete this and treat this as spam. You have deleted the link from the Parsi page too. I would appreciate if you dont do that without first looking at the link. Anyways this is the Wikipedia, and on what basis do you just go ahead and delete a link. Please discuss this here before you go ahead and delete it.

--arZan 21:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know who Jergens is, but if he's my hero if he's deleting linkspam. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collector of information, and is not a linkfarm. See also: WP:NOT
 * To answer your question: you're linking to ParsiKhabar is spam because it fulfills (for multiple reasons) the criteria as per External_links.
 * It may also be a good idea for you to read Spam.
 * -- Fullstop 12:49, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * ps: It also doesn't make sense to reinsert a link even though it has already been repeatedly removed. A link that that gets removed is probably not as valuable as you think it is.
 * pps: ParsiKhabar is also not - even in the remotest sense of the term - "Further Reading". It does not even remotely contain any information not already in the article, and even if it did, it would not be citable since a blog is by definition not a reliable source.


 * FullStop
 * You are resorting to the same baseless deletion that Jergens did. Who gives you the authority to decide what is and what is not spam. If you click on the link it takes you to a collection of articles that talk about the life and achievements of Ratan Tata that this article does not even scratch the surface of.
 * And thanks for providing all those boiler plate links. I have read them numerous times. This is not the first time I am posting on Wikipedia. So please be so kind and stop playing games.
 * arZan 17:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I've explained why the link to ParsiKhabar is spam, and the WP:pages I noted above explain why a link to blog is to be avoided. I'm sorry if you haven't understood what the purpose of WP is (or perhaps what an encyclopedia is) or why your blog isn't a linkable source or why your linking to it is a conflict of interest.
 * Notwithstanding that your edits (also those before your username registration) are for the most part simply reinsertions of the link to ParsiKhabar, your edit history is entirely irrelevant to the issue of whether your link to ParsiKhabar is spam or not.
 * a) A blog (any blog) is by definition a link to be avoided.
 * b) Providing a link that searches a particular webspace does not qualify as "Further reading" either. Such linking does not improve the quality of an article, ergo has no justification for being there. This would also be true for a link to Google with the search term, but at least that wouldn't be advertising for any specific particular site, which is precisely what your link does.
 * Please contribute to Wikipedia in a positive manner, such as adding information (properly attributed to reliable sources of course) to an article so making it more valuable to the reader. Such contributions would be most welcome. -- Fullstop 11:24, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Net worth
Hello. I'm investigating the validity of the net worth value stated in this article. I looked at the edit history and found these changes that were made on 19 December by an anonymous user. The edits added the 50.6 Billion USD figure, but did not cite a source. They also deleted most of the remainder of the article. I searched and cannot find any sources supporting this figure. I did find several similar numbers, but they either referred to company revenue (not net worth), or they were in rupees (not USD). I suspect that the edits are either a misinterpretation of the facts or are intentional misinformation. Can anyone find a source to confirm or refute this net worth figure? Thank you. -- Tcncv (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm removing it for now. if a reliable source is located, it can be added back in.  -- Tcncv (talk) 06:38, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It makes no sense. Ratan Tata doesn't have an "effective right" over the charitable trusts. Ratan Tata's net worth is only 1 billion. Its irrelevant that 50+ Billion USD Is locked up in trusts - it doesn't make it his "effective property." That would be a complete bastardization of the rationale of holding assets in charitable trusts. Sanyasi (talk) 22:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * One can't deny the fact that the Tatas' earned it even if they don't own in outright now. And the fact that they placed it in a trust might probably say something about the values that they cherish and hold dear. Thanks.Civilizededucation (talk) 12:10, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * This still doesn't seem clear - he has an "income that is worth 300 million"? does that mean he makes 300 million a year? Prettyoldflowers (talk) 15:48, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Charity trusts are just to evade taxes. all that money is owned by Tata by several sub clauses.If he wants he can buy a delhi sized island with it and convert it into a casino with it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.241.195.103 (talk) 08:53, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Criticism
there is no reason why the criticism should be in the article for ratan tata- it should be in the tata group page only. "Mamata Banerjee did not have the support of the people" - is not relevant to Ratan Tata's life and can be disputed.trakesht (talk) 02:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no reason why Budhadeb Bhattacharjee and Narendra Modi's role should be mentioned here. The topic is Ratan Tata —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.24.11.6 (talk) 19:20, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * what amazing logic. also you can say we can have an article that is just written by Tata himself or even better Nira Radia. and no one else should touch it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.241.195.103 (talk) 09:00, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Change the image
I don't know how to change the image...Its written some Mishra, someone with the user-rights please change it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarath02 (talk • contribs) 18:13, 2 March 2010

Disambiguation
Can someone please insert the disambiguation notice at the top for Sir Ratan Tata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratanji_Dadabhoy_Tata)? Thanks!--Altonego (talk) 19:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Tata Group Vs Tata Sons
The chairman of Tata Sons is the position that makes Ratan Tata chairman to Tata group. It may be trivial but taking into account the history of Tata's in India and that Tata Sons [which is a charitable institution] controls Tata Group, I think that at least in the first paragraph and info group, the occupation of Tata should be changed to chairman of Tata Sons. Kc27 (talk) 06:21, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * What you say is right, but the distinction will be lost on most readers. Tata Group is what is known, not Tata Sons, so I'd say that the infobox should retain Tata Group, but the article body should mention that he's chairman of the group because of his status as chairman of Tata Sons. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  14:01, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually the concept of Tata Group is what is relatively new and less known. When some one referred to Tata in India before, it was as a chairman of Tata Sons, but you are right that internationally Tata's are known for Tata Group. I will revert the info box information back to Tata Group and will keep it that way until I can find a reliable source informing otherwise. Thank you. Kc27 (talk) 19:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Rao.anirudh, 5 August 2010
Please add to the Awards and recognition section:

On 8 August 2008 the Indian Institute of Technology Bombay conferred on him the Degree of Doctor of Science (Honoris Causa) in recognition of his outstanding contributions to the growth of Indian industry, to the propagation of the values of business ethics and the social responsibilities of business, and to the overall growth of the country.

Source: http://www.iitb.ac.in/Convocation2008/tday2.htm

Anirudh Rao 18:29, 5 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I would imagine, given your username, that you have a bit of a conflict of interest? Therefore, please could you give a reference to some news source or someting, to demonstrate that this award is significant and notable; I am not convinced that the ref covers it; is there some press coverage? If you can elaborate, please do so, and add a further . Thanks,  Chzz  ► 02:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism
I just removed vandalism under personal life, where someone had added "(Total Association Total Association)" after his name. TheQw 20:37, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Only praise should go into Wikipedia and no critisism?
Some users like spacemanspiff seem to believe that only praise should go into wikepedia for eminent personalities and not critism. Else why did he delete the following edit in personal life:

However, recently in at least two occasions he has been found to be taking active interest in political wheeling dealing for his business interests. First he somewhat forced the State Government of West Bengal to give prime agricultural land for Tata Nano factory in Singur through his connections up to the chief minister level. Ultimately he had to abandon plans for this plant due to huge people unrest.Tata_Nano_Singur_controversy Recently media and tape recording exposes of his and his PR consultant Niira Radia's conversation reveal that he was taking active interest in Congress ministry formation and was lobbying for a particular minister so that his company Tata Teleservices could benifit later in 2G and 3G allocations. . Even though he has personally moved the Supreme Court of India to stop this tape-leaks, the transcripts are already in public domain and most people in India have started to believe that even Tata is ready to compromise on ethics when it comes to business interests.

When adulation/praise "He is a dynamic and vibrant businessman and is considered as one of the best managers never compromising on ethics and customer care.[10]" stays in?

can some editor explain this please? 59.93.200.103 (talk) 19:11, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The above are just allegations. They have not been proved. If these have to be added to the article, may the user add it in a non-partisan manner and explicitly state it as an allegation. Besides, the Singur controversy clearly shows the stupidity of West Bengal in shooing away good investment opportunity which was eventually awarded to Gujarat. And it also shows the short-sightedness of Mamta Banerjee due to which the state has further fallen into the clutches of Communism! Besides, the Radia tapes are also just allegations. Please do not brand the man a thief without charges being proved. --Prasadksap (talk) 04:13, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The Nira Radia tapes are available on the internet and are not mere "allegations". Just google. I am amazed at your ignorance. I am taging this article for reading like an advertisement of Mr Tata. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsachin (talk • contribs) 08:21, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 98.193.66.103, 21 February 2011
Birthday: December 28, 1937 About: Ratan Naval Tata (born December 28, 1937, in Surat) is the present Chairman of the Tata Group, India's largest conglomerate founded by Jamsedji Tata and consolidated and expanded by later generations of his family.

98.193.66.103 (talk) 00:11, 21 February 2011 (UTC) He was born in Surat, Gujarat, India. Mot in Bombay.

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. We need a reliable source to add that info; furthermore, since you mentioned it, I took a look, and then removed the birthday from the infobox because it wasn't sourced either. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:04, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Some improvements
I have significantly rewritten the article. Why there is no mention of the turnaround he constituted in the Tata companies making it one of the biggest companies in India and of the world still stumps me. These are proven facts; and the story of how he overcame his hardships is an interesting and very inspiring one, and i believe are something which readers of wikipedia (who i suspect are mostly young readers) should definitely read about. As for the recent controversy, let me say a few *unsourced* views: Indian laws are such that it is quite impossible for businesses to survive without being illegal in some way or the other. I am no supporter of big businesses; but i believe that the Tata group has been more honest and less exploitative than any other company(e.g Vedanta).

Feel free to add a criticism section, but please, don't go overboard with it. Pratik.mallya (talk) 13:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The article appears to be much cleaner and better written now. If there are significant criticisms found in reliable sources that meet WP:DUE, then, yes we can add them.  It is always preferable to integrate criticism with the rest of the article rather than having a separate criticism section, but sometimes it isn't possible.  13:21, 21 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qwyrxian (talk • contribs)

Retirement 2012
http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report_ratan-tata-successor-likely-by-end-april_1525714

Hey out there! is it correct that Mr Tata has to retire in 2012 cause he gets 75 years old? might be intersting to write in the article. thx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.217.36.107 (talk) 14:19, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Since that is yet to happen, there is no reason to include it now.  Pratik Mallya  &#9742; 15:17, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Marital status and family history?
Whose son is he? and need more expansion on the Personal life

I also doubt if he is married. Being a Telco employee, its long been rumored that he is single — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.174.82.56 (talk) 14:10, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Whats his mothers name? nowhere mentioned.... ankit — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.224.98.224 (talk) 16:41, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Knighthood & Use of Post-nominal Letters GBE
Have reviewed both [[Indian honours system] and Awards & Medals (Ministry of Home Affairs) which don't state there is a prohibition on use of foreign honours or post-nominal letters (in the same manner as Australia allows the honours without post-nominal letters). On appointment as a Knight Grand Cross both substantive and honorary (clause 5 Statutes of The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire) enjoy the privilege to use the post-nominal letters GBE.

I've reverted the application of *both* KBE & GBE when Knight Commanders are promoted to Knight Grand Cross (both ordinary/substantive and honorary) are no longer entitled to privileges of the prior rank (''when appointments are in the same division such as Civil, Military or Foreign Office).

--Karl Stephens ( talk &#124; contribs ) 14:33, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * If the Indian Home ministry doesn't state that, it is because they think that the very idea of an Indian citizen using a antiquated, colonial-era, British post-nominal is too ludicrous to address. It doesn't mean that they allow it.  If they do, show me the link.  In my long experience of India, I've never seen or heard of an Indian national using any British post nominals awarded after 1947.  Let me politely suggest that you self-revert, unless you want me to take it to Talk:MOS#Biography and make you eat crow there.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  16:43, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Chandrika Prasad Srivastava, KCMG in 1990. Do you want salt with that crow? -- Neil N  talk to me  17:27, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * So the same mistake is being made on another Wikipedia page, where other nonsensical post nominals have been added as well. He was obviously not an ICS man, only an early IAS officer, and neither is used as a post nominal in India.  How about also adding BA, MA, and LLB to his long train of titles.  The Indian Home Ministry has interpreted Article 18.1 of the Constitution of India (which says, "18. (1) No title, not being a military or academic distinction, shall be conferred by the State.") to imply that Indian awards cannot be used as pre- or post nominals.  (See here, where the Home Ministry says, "In terms of Article 18 (1) of the Constitution, the (Bharat Ratna) award cannot be used as a prefix or suffix to the recipient's name.").  However, Article 18.2 of the Constitution of India says, "(2) No citizen of India shall accept any title from any foreign State."  (See [lawmin.nic.in/coi/coiason29july08.pdf here] page 8).  Again, please self-revert before I take this to a wider forum.  As for the nonsensical train after Srivastava's name, I shall soon be removing it.   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  23:09, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * And I've reverted you. Take it where you must. -- Neil N  talk to me  23:19, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

It seems a discussion has been opened at Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics. Karl Stephens, you may be interested. -- Neil N  talk to me  00:43, 30 April 2014 (UTC)


 * First, thank you User:Fowler&amp;fowler for:
 * Your WP:POV on the "antiquated, colonial-era, British post-nominal" which is used by 11 independant nations and was last awarded in the New Year Honours 2014.
 * Citing your source. My research was limited to honours and awards so scope failed to encompass the Indian Constitution which is my fault.
 * Saying "Indian Home ministry doesn't state that, it is because they think..." I have to say that I'm not confident that you're authorised to speak for the Indian Home Ministry or to know their thoughts unless you really are the Minister.


 * The prohibition against foreign titles/honours/distinctions in the Constitution is applicable to citizens, residents and visitors to India. The arguement that post-nominal letters that are part of a foreign honour is not in dispute however the Indian Constitution does not apply to Indian citizens resident outside of India.


 * In India Mr Tata is simply Mr Tata. In any other country he is entitled to style himself as Mr Tata GBE. While Tata holds single citizenship and is resident in India the post-nominals and the underlying honour are not recognised by the Indian Government. The Post-nominal letters have been removed from the article however the event of the both appointment and promotion within the Order of the British Empire remain in the article along with the relevant Categories. If Mr Tata takes residence outside of India we can revisit this discussion.


 * Next time you have this arguement, it is helpful to cite the authoritative source in the first interaction instead of waiting 24-48 hours.

--Karl Stephens ( talk &#124; contribs ) 13:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * To what reliable source are you attributing your new claim, that the Indian constitution does not apply to non-resident Indian citizens? To what source and what Wikipedia policy are you citing the notion that if Ratan Tata ever becomes a non-resident Indian, but chooses not to use the GBE, we as WP editors have the right to foist it on him?   Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  11:02, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Date of birth?
The article says:

"Ratan Naval Tata GBE (born 28 December 1937) is an Indian businessman ..."

and

"Sir Ratan Naval Tata

Born	 28 December 1940 (age 73) Surat, India ...."

Which is it? (or neither?)

Please solve this issue. ---Dagme (talk) 14:25, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

It now says Ratan Tata is 21 years old. Please fix this.

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.242.159.88 (talk) 04:52, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

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Harvard Business School attendance, NOT an alumnus
There has been some pushback on my removing Tata from. The article reads "in 1975, attended the seven-week Advanced Management Program of Harvard Business School". The AMP has no "no formal educational requirements", and no assessment at the end. It is nothing like the two-year full-time MBA, which most readers will infer an alumnus has completed. Please see Talk:Harvard_Business_School. Edwardx (talk) 10:27, 30 January 2019 (UTC)