Talk:Rathika Sitsabaiesan

Untitled
If Tamil Canadian is an ethnicity then let Mr.Intoronto show me links from the website of Canadian gvt that say that there are ethnic groups in Canada named French-Canadian and English-Canadian/British-Canadian.

Canadian is citizenship.Tamil is ethnicity .Tamil-Canadian is not an ethnicity(Arun1paladin (talk) 03:58, 19 May 2011 (UTC))

Third opinion
On ethnicity

I am not a long time wikipedia user.I am not well aware of its rules and features.If am eligible to give third opinion on the dispute over ethnicity then.I would say that it should appear as Tamil in the panel below her photo and it must be directed to Tamil people or Eelam Tamils [Sri Lankan Tamil].A new field called community can be created to refer as Tamil Canadian (Arun1paladin (talk) 04:19, 20 May 2011 (UTC))

Photo issue
Rathika is available on facebook.Why don't we contact her and get a image of her from herself.So that we may not have this copyright violation notification(Arun1paladin (talk) 07:20, 20 May 2011 (UTC))


 * I informed her a week ago on the issue and forwarded an email today.Rajk2011 (talk) 13:33, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I'ave added a legit (cc licensed) Photo of Rathika from a recent event. Hopefully there will be others to come and those who are picky can have some selection --Ravipjoshi (talk) 17:02, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Ethnicity
There is no consensus to proclaim her ethnicity is Tamil Canadian; hence I reverted the edit of User:Intoronto1125.Hillcountries (talk) 05:05, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Nor is there a reliable source to state her ethnicity is anything else - so, I have simply removed the field, for now.


 * I hope that might avoid further edit-warring, and/or further article protection.


 * If anyone wishes to add ethnicity, supply a reliable source and discuss it here. Thanks,  Chzz  ► 14:40, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Agree with User:Chzz.Hillcountries (talk) 14:48, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm new to Wikipedia, so please humour me. What sort of source would be reliable enough to prove her ethnicity? Ethnicity is socially constructed and (as a law student), Canadian jurisprudence doesn't seem to have defined the term. Are "Eelam Tamils" or "Sri Lankan Tamils" ethnically distinct from Tamils in general? In that case, who defines what a Tamil is? Are the Ulster Scots or Boers or Acadians ethnically distinct from their Scots, Dutch and French ancestors? Sri Lankan/Eelam Tamils have a distinct history, culture and dialect, and genepool, sharing as much (and in some cases) more cultural and genetic ties to their Sinhalese neighbours than to Indian Tamils across the Palk Strait. See the following Wikipedia articles:

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Sri_Lankan_Tamils - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Tamils --Abmohan (talk) 16:35, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


 * And if by suitable source, you're looking for her referring to herself by her ethnicity, her Tamil speech in the house of commons does that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ke_IjjQv1w

She says (at around 1:50): "As the Canadian Parliament's first Tamil member", .... If you're looking for something in her own words, I'm not sure what the issue is. --Abmohan (talk) 16:58, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Rathika
If you are not properly able to read, here are the comments on user rajk's talk page:

"Hi guys, I've been looking through the dispute and am rather puzzled. I think there is a confusion between Nationality and ethnicity. Sitsabaiesan was born in Sri Lanka (I assume her parents are Sri Lankan?) thus making her an ethnic Sri Lankan. Ethnicity is not solely defined location. Since Sri Lanka is no longer her homeland and she doesn't appear to have Sri Lankan citizenship, then it would be most appropriate to classify her as Sri Lankan Canadian or Tamil Canadian.

I would say it is more appropriate to say that she is Tamil Canadian born in Jaffna (?), Sri Lanka.

Intoronto1125  Talk   Contributions   14:29, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


 * would be most appropriate to classify her as Sri Lankan Canadian or Tamil Canadian.


 * I would say it is more appropriate to say that she is Tamil Canadian born in Jaffna (?), Sri Lanka.


 * According to their opinions, It is already highlighted that Sitsabaiesan became the first Tamil Canadian.........and was born in Jaffna on the prime paragraph.


 * Their opinions don't support her Ethnicity is Tamil Canadian.Hillcountries (talk) 14:39, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Either way - please provide a reliable source to verify it. Thanks,  Chzz  ► 14:46, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Multiple reliable sources would be fine, otherwise we could use an infobox which is used for S. Rajaratnam and could mention her Nationality as Tamil Canadian.Hillcountries (talk) 15:14, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


 * According to this interview, she says she is Canadian.  Intoronto1125   Talk   Contributions   00:27, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

She says, "I was born in Sri Lanka and came to Canada when I was five" - she does not say "I consider my ethnicity to be Canadian / Tamil-Canadian" or anything like that.

Let's just stick to facts, and let the reader draw conclusions. There's absolutely no necessity to make a big deal of 'Ethnicity' (indeed, I wish we'd just get rid of it from the parameters...but that's a question for elsewhere).

We wouldn't put "Chzz is a great singer", we'd say "Chzz has sold a million records". We wouldn't say "Chzz is a terrible driver", we'd say "Chzz has crashed 13 cars". So, whether good/bad/indifferent - depending on your own opinion - there's no need to put "Ethnicity" in this article. We can state the facts - where the person was born, when she moved, etc. Let the reader conclude what they want.

Unless we have specific reliable sources stating clearly that her "ethnicity is...whatever" then this 'fact' does not belong - especially as is clear here on the talk page, it is controversial.

So, please, can we stop making a big fuss over this?

Consider also the undue weight issue. In that interview, linked, her ethnic origin is discussed for approx. 4 seconds of a 12 minute interview. Do you consider ethnicity to be a massively significant issue, in the life and times of a politician? It's worth mentioning where she's from, of course. But, please, keep perspective; let's just state facts.

I just looked through Category:Members of the Canadian House of Commons from Ontario - and although I only checked a few, I couldn't find a single one that showed 'Ethnicity'. Why should this article be different? Why is Sitsabaiesan's "ethnicity" so very important to our Encyclopaedic understanding of her life?

If you can show reliable sources discussing it - fine. If not, I really suggest dropping this issue. Thanks for your time reading this,  Chzz  ► 00:45, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Tamil or Eelam Tamil or Tamil Canadian or Sri Lankan Tamil?
The Canadian users had earlier raised an issue over her ethnicity sayin that her ethnicity is Tamil Canadian.But the fact is that Tamil Canadian is not an ethnicity and justa community.The same goes for Eelam Tamil or Sri Lankan Tamil.It's not an ethnicity but a community and a section of the Tamil ethnicity.

The Canadian users who want to refer her as a Tamil Canadian ,have no issues with saying that Scarborough has a sizeable SRI LANKAN TAMIL POPULATION.I would like to ask those users that if they don't find themselves contradicting!!??Regarding the term Eelam Tamil it's the term used to refer the native Tamils of the islan SriLanka in Tamil Language.Well some one may argue that there is no sovereing state called Tamil Eelam but the same goes to TIBET.There is no sovereign state on planet earth called Tibet but none has problems in calling Tibetians as Tibetians but people have hickups if someone writes that a person is of Eelam Tamil origin.Moreover I don't know how did some people conclude that she doesn't have lankan citizenship.Unlike India ,Sri Lanka allows it's citizens to have dual citizenship(Arun1paladin (talk) 11:04, 7 June 2011 (UTC))
 * First of your English is really poor, secondly, I never said Scarborough has big Sri Lankan Tamil population. Intoronto1125   Talk   Contributions   12:36, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Intoronto.I don't need a certificate about my English proficiency from you.Moreover it's not my language.So there is no need for me to be eloquent in an alien language.Stick to the topic rather than engaging into personal remarks.I am multi-lingual (Arun1paladin (talk) 03:47, 8 June 2011 (UTC)).
 * Is her skin brown, dark-brown, black, light-brown, green, or blue?
 * We don't mention that either.
 * Nor do we mention skin-colour on any of the other bio's of Members of the Canadian House of Commons from Ontario.
 * Why not? 'Coz, it doesn't matter; 'coz, nobody has discussed it. 'Coz, there are not newspapers analysing it.  Chzz  ► 03:50, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I have stopped editing the page after the earlier suggestions by Chzz. Intoronto1125   Talk   Contributions   03:52, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

It seems that Chzz has lost his/her temper.Well Mr/Miss?Mrs Chzz.I wonder why you talk something irrelevant about skin colour.You can see your link yourself.they mention the origin of various MPs of Canada.It was you who said that said that the term Eelam Tamil [regarding origin]is not in the reference and changed it back to Tamil Canadian.

Thing that I want to mention is that you didn't change the sentence 'Scarborough has a considerable Sri Lankan Tamil population'(Arun1paladin (talk) 04:12, 8 June 2011 (UTC))

Political Career
Rathika Sitsabaiesan doesn't want to claim, but it is a verifiable fact that, "She is the first Tamil person to be elected to any federal parliament, outside India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia and Singapore........" Samy Vellu, Joshua Benjamin Jeyaretnam, S. Rajaratnam and Tharman Shanmugaratnam were/are the elected parliamentarians in Malaysia and Singapore from the Tamil community.Hillcountries (talk) 16:47, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * "During her first speech in the Canadian parliament she claimed to be the first Tamil person to be elected to any federal parliament outside India or Sri Lanka, which was incorrect, as there have been Tamils elected to federal parliaments in both Malaysia and Singapore for years. She is the first female member of parliament representing Scarborough-Rouge River." That is a better statement as that is what she said during her speech. Intoronto1125 Talk Contributions   17:00, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * We are not developing or expanding Wikipedia pages based on the subjects' statements or by giving importance to the subjects' speeches. We are expanding the pages by maintaining encyclopedic importance. I revert it back and request for a RFC.Hillcountries (talk) 17:10, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Where does she claim to be "the first Tamil person to be elected to any federal parliament outside India or Sri Lanka"?

At 8.27 she says "the very first female Tamil member of parliament in the world outside of India and Sri Lanka". This, as far as I am aware, is correct. All the edit warring has resulted in a number factual errors creeping into the article:

1) The intro states Rathika is "the first ever Tamil-origin Woman to do so in the entire world" - this is not true, there have been at least two females MPs in Sri Lanka (Pathmini Sithamparanathan, Thangeswary Kathiraman) and at least two females MPs in India (Subbulakshmi Jagadeesan, Parvathi Krishnan).

2) "Sitsabaiesan was born in Achchuveli" - there are no sources stating where exactly she was born. Her family hail from Achchuveli but that does not mean she was born there. Her website states "Rathika was born in Sri Lanka", nothing about where exactly she was born.

3) Previous versions of this article have stated she was the first Tamil MP outside of India and Sri Lanka- this is not true, there have been Tamil MPs in Singapore and possibly Malaysia.

Some editors are inferring facts or simply making things up to suit their own POV.-- obi2canibe talk contr 17:38, 16 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I too listened her speech on "youtube", at 8.28 she says "the very first female Tamil member of parliament in the world outside of India and Sri Lanka". That is correct. All those who were/are elected in Malaysia and Singapore to the parliaments are male members. There are other factual errors in the page as obi2canibe indicated above and should be revised.Hillcountries (talk) 18:25, 16 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Indranee Rajah is an elected parliamentarian in Singapore. But I am not sure of her ethnicity. Rajah is her maiden surname as she is not married. But she may be a half Tamil or a person with paternal Tamil ancestry.Hillcountries (talk) 04:08, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Roy Padayachie of South Africa, Perumal Mupnar of Fiji and Ernest Moutoussamy of Guadeloupe, an overseas region of France in the Caribbean were/are also Tamil parliamentarians.Hillcountries (talk) 09:35, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Removed the incorrect intro para, "the first ever Tamil-origin Woman to do so in the entire world".Hillcountries (talk) 18:39, 16 June 2011 (UTC)


 * It seems rather odd to say she is the first in the world, and then to add an exception. Either she should be identified as the second, or it should be made clear why we are both calling her first while mentioning someone else who may also be first. Monty  845  07:08, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

இராதிகா Vs.ராதிகா
Though இராதிகா is correct grammatically, as the subject herself corrected at 03:41, 13 August 2011 to ராதிகா...we will leave it alone.Hillcountries (talk) 06:45, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with that Hillcountries. Kanatonian (talk) 13:54, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

"Censored photo" claim
This article claims that the very photo we are using here has been Photoshopped to removed Ms Sitsabaiesan's cleavage. Anyone want to handle this? Nick Cooper (talk) 23:30, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't think its necessary to add to the article unless the issue becomes more of an "issue" Intoronto1125 Talk Contributions   00:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * How much more of an "issue," 10%, 50%, 100%? This is vague in the extreme. You obviously have some sort of "issue" threshold, what is it?154.5.45.119 (talk) 01:30, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, for example the Helena Gurgis scandal. If anything this should go under the Conservative party's page. Intoronto1125 Talk Contributions   01:39, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Ha ha ha pull the other one Tonto.154.5.45.119 (talk) 05:55, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

I wonder why she being a Tamil,wears such dresses at the first place! (Arun1paladin (Arun1paladin (talk) 10:17, 28 September 2011 (UTC))
 * Arun, She is a Canadian not a Saudi citizen, a strong woman and she has the rights to wear any clothes she wants and I agree with Intoronto1125, that this issue about cleavage is nonsensical and has no place in an encylopedia unless we see more substantial coverage of this issue. Kanatonian (talk) 13:52, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes,I agree that she is a Canadian. She has the right to wear what she likes.My comments was due to the culture of the place to which I belong.I am not from west .So comments will not be western which is usually dubbed as modern e.Anyway it's her personal thing.(Arun1paladin (talk) 03:49, 29 September 2011 (UTC))


 * They have aded the information withut getting consensus in the talk page, all what we know the pictures with a cleavage can be a hoax ?Kanatonian (talk) 22:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Where is the evidence of a hoax? Nick Cooper (talk) 22:33, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * This issue has blown over, no more coverge Kanatonian (talk) 15:20, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Befor and after,click on her near the bottom of the page. http://www.fourandsix.com/photo-tampering-history/category/2011?currentPage=2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.89.49 (talk) 04:42, 2 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Due to the media coverage it gained and that it was the official parliamentary portrait, which is even used in this article. It is worth mentioning as it has been covered by the mainstream media. Cossde (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:20, 10 December 2011 (UTC).


 * It has been covered in a couple of tabloids in a couple of articles. Read the BLP and RS policies about where tabloids can be used and where they cant be used. There is clear consensus here not to add that stuff as it is undue and poorly sourced.--Sodabottle (talk) 17:52, 11 December 2011 (UTC)--Sodabottle (talk) 17:52, 11 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Im sure you may consider the dailymail a tabloid, however would you do the same for thr Toronto Observer ? Cossde (talk) 04:05, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Please show your rationale Toronto Observer is not a tabloid.Sudar123 (talk) 12:50, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Unlike the Dailymail (UK) which is listed as a tabloid even in Wikipedia, Toronto Observer is not. Cossde (talk) 16:59, 14 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Your claim, "Unlike the Dailymail (UK) which is listed as a tabloid even in Wikipedia, Toronto Observer is not."
 * Toronto Observer doesn't have a Wikipedia page yet. So what made you for such a conclusion?....that is only your POV mindset.Sudar123 (talk) 10:50, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://web.archive.org/web/20120418194010/http://rathikasitsabaiesan.ndp.ca/about. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa (talk) 05:10, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I think the boot's on the other foot. Much of what you believe to copied or closely paraphrased was actually added by me in June 2011. It was then copied by Sitsabaiesan's website.-- obi2canibe talk contr 13:41, 22 February 2014 (UTC)