Talk:Raven (DC Comics)/Archive 1

Updated Costume?
"In addition, through various press releases and creators' blogs, it is suggested that Raven will return to the pages of Teen Titans with an updated costume (see the picture in the infobox) either on or before issue #39, as part of the "Titans Around the World" storyline starting in issue #38. A few aspects of her new costume, such as her belt, are based on that of her animated counterpart."

I believe this needs editting as the information is wrong, or I'm just misunderstanding it. As far as I know, Raven had her bodysuit during Infinite Crisis. I forgot which issue but there was a large spreadsheet of MANY characters during the Crisis, and you could see a tiny Raven with a bodysuit with the raven on her chest. Can anyone clarify and edit this? Maybe I'm just reading into it wrong. --LM22102 06:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I found it. Infinite Crisis #7 the two page spread of 34-35. You'll find her with Beastboy between one of the Green Lanterns and the Green Arrow. Clearly, she's wearing a body suit. So she had changed costume had the end of Infinite Crisis (or during, as she was seen in the crisis of Bludhaven with her dress.) But my point is that her costume change did not occur during OYL, but right after Infinite Crisis, maybe during. Maybe I'm just thinking too much into this. --68.104.30.122 06:16, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Youthfulness in TV series
There's a comment that in the animated series Raven appears younger. So how old does she look in the animated series? RJFJR 04:21, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * maybe you should look at the comic series and compare for your self, if your blind I can understand if you don't notice a diffrence.--BerserkerBen 12:18, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * That's not a number. RJFJR 14:31, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * When does "looks younger" mean a exact age? --BerserkerBen 18:25, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, So how old does she look... was supposed to ask if it is possible to describe it more accurately. I find it too hard to estimate a number for an age of an animated character. RJFJR 20:18, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * I really don't think it's important to know how old she is. --Neigel von Teighen 20:38, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * True. In the comics books she looked to be in her 20s. In the animated I'd say 16 to 20, but there's a big difference in there.  I was just wondering if anyone could come up wtih a tighter estimate.  Sorry about the bother. RJFJR 20:49, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Who knows, seriously, I would also find it doubtful the producers will ever say what age the animated Raven is, nor do I think they even made up a age for her. Just assume young to be between the ages of 13-18, I would guess below 16 (because in the animated series cyborg is the only one that can drive a car)--BerserkerBen 23:04, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

French name?
I think Raven's name is French. Ravin in French means "gloomy". --Gravity Control
 * ...That might be the root of the english word, but I'm positive her name simply refers to the bird of the same name, which is usually associated with gloom. --InShaneee 17:13, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

What about a picture?
What about trying to find a good picture (without violating any copyright) of both Raven in the comic and in the animated series? It would spice this article up. --Neigel von Teighen 20:34, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I guess someone could find several images of the two((?)Raven may look diffrent from one comic series to another) and upload them, from what I have read in Here you can please those who are fanatic wiki-copyright @$$ @#$%^&$ by placing a tag like this in the image discription:


 * You should also place the artist's name, date of creation and producers in the desciption in accordence with the wishes of WikiProject_Comics --BerserkerBen 04:50, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I found some, but I wonder if we really can use them...you should know that copyrights are something important to respect. A copyright violation like this, where DC Comics and Warner Bros. Studios (for the anim. series) are involved, can get the whole Wikimedia organization into judicial troubles. I don't know if 'fair use' can be applied...--Neigel von Teighen 17:22, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * If that were true then wiki would be royally screwed for images like these:
 * and that just Batman! So no, I don't think uploading a image of Raven from the comics or animated series is something to worry about as long as the steps I descibe above are taken. --BerserkerBen 22:27, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I've added an image comparing both Ravens. What do you think? --Neigel von Teighen 23:11, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks fine, I doubt the site it came from had any copyrights to it either. --BerserkerBen 23:43, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm now thinking the picture it's not eligible to copyright and, thus, is public domain. It's a cut-and-pasting from two different sources (WB Studios & DC Comics) and IMO it's not any intellectual/creative property.
 * I was also wondering if a WikiProject can be created for improving the articles about the Titans members. The best page concerning one of them is the Starfire article, from what I've seen. --Neigel von Teighen 14:21, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Why not just at WikiProject_Comics?

--BerserkerBen 21:39, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * It's also a possibility. I think I'll do some contacts there and try to gather some people for this. --Neigel von Teighen 14:50, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * It is obvious that Raven's image in the animated series is more beautiful and adorable than her comic counterpart. This is perhaps due to the drawing style. User:Imiraven
 * Um....what? TalonTheater

True but we still need a full body shot of the animated Raven

Trigon
Raven's father's name is confirmed to be Trigon in the animated series. The credits and series creators if anyone needs to know.
 * Fine enough, source it though, I bow to your superior geekiness :D --BerserkerBen 03:40, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Move explained
The reason I moved the article was because the article talks about both Raven the comic character and Raven the animated series character. Thus, DC Comics as the disambiguation makes more sense than simply comics. KramarDanIkabu 00:09, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Bad move. No page links to "Raven (DC Comics)" and the standard is to disambig as little as possible. Reverted. - SoM 14:52, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Raven (DC Comics) would have been the best title for the article when creating it, but now that it is created as Raven (comics) we can't do such a change, considering that the articles Teen Titans, Trigon (comics), Deathstroke the Terminator, etc. link to this page under the current title. --Neigel von Teighen 20:48, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I regretted the idea as soon as I moved it but didn't have a chance to change it back until now. Sorry for the problems. KramarDanIkabu 00:26, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Raven (animated series) is not always sarcastic and powerful. Given her strict control over her emotion and powers, many's the time she expresses normal emotions. Regarding this, her fears and vulnerability should be mentioned. An example is the episode "The Beast Within". [User:Imiraven]

Raven Animated Age
She's 13 in the animated seris they had a 13th birthday episode in the 4th season!
 * 13!... Disastrous! The age doesn't fit at all with the character of the animated Raven. --Neigel von Teighen 22:31, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * She has a 16th birthday if I recall correctly, making her 15 prior to that. If she had a 13th birthday, that would make her 12 prior, and certainly not a 'Teen' Titan. Tyciol 18:05, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Her age is never actually stated, nor does it say what age she is turning in that episode. Michelle 00:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you sure her animated age wasnt stated im pretty sure she said it was her 13th birthday in the fourth season do we know which episode?Monkey2619 03:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Information from titansgo.net and the titanstower animated site place the birthday celebrated in Season 4 her 16th birthday. Takuyar 09:38, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

"Unlike the other Titans, Raven doesn't have an arch foe of any kind."
Why wouldn't Trigon count, or is this according to some very specific definition of 'arch foe'
 * Trigon is her arch foe, and Brother Blood maybe too... --Neigel von Teighen 16:54, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd support Trigon. --InShaneee 03:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I third Trigon. I mean, it's not really a Raven story without him, is it? --Gemtiger 02:24, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Then, I'll change that sentence. --Neigel von Teighen 22:00, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * In the animated series, Trigon is somewhat of her nemesis. In the DC comic, however, Brother Blood is more of her arch foe, ever since Trigon was killed. 09:44, 30 June 2006


 * Definitely Brother Blood. I mean, is he not after her every reincarnation? Even going so far as to making a new body AND bring out hell? Please. --LM22102 05:55, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps in the current run (even though Sebastion now officially dead). In TNTT, Blood claimed his power was "to resist [Raven's.] However, this "nemesis"-like side of him was too vague to consider them as such. - Talon

Rorek and Raven
What is all this stuff about Rorek the wizard (from episode "Spellbound") and Raven's powers? I mean, sure, Raven used white energy in that episode to defeat Kardiak, but she used that same exact color energy to defeat her mind's view of Trigon in "Nevermore", which the series seems to suggest occurred before Raven found the magical book. Plus, Rorek as a wizard was never seen (he was only seen in Malchior's dragon body, and that was only in the storybook sequences), so nobody knows his true intentions, or if he even knew about Trigon. I think you're giving Rorek more credit than he deserves, seeing as Rorek's only true purpose in that episode was as somebody with whom Malchior could switch bodies. --Numbuh3.14 12:58, 18 February 2006
 * I agree! I'd like an explanation from whoever put that in the article!  I think whoever it was just made something up and then tried to present it as fact. -Unknown —Preceding unsigned comment added by Evernut (talk • contribs)

Raven & Beast Boy's relationship
Is it okay that I added that link to that forum on BB/Rav shipping?
 * No. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of links. This BBS is not canonical, highly trafficed, or relevant to the article. --InShaneee 22:21, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It is canonical to the comic, just not the series, although somewhat implied. Tyciol 18:05, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention as far as present continuity is concerned thanks to "OYL", the relationship is now neither stable nor permanent, it will obviously be approached again in the future (it clearly was big enough to force the two to leave the Titans and go seperate paths),but for now this is just Geoff's way of quickly creating a good mystery and giving him time to develop the new team for the readers.

Black Raven... where? And what about Brown Raven?
Okay, I read through and can find no information on Black Raven, and she does not appear in "Nevermore"--I just watched it and didn't see her anywhere. But I did see a Brown Raven who is not mentioned in the article!? I'll upload a pic to show what I'm talking about. Sweetfreek 09:13, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Update: The pics I was talking about are now up... incidently, Green Raven becomes red in color during the "swirling phase" of their fusion!? I'll keep the episode a little longer on my TiVo if someone can tell me when/where in "Nevermore" Black Raven appears... but I'm skeptical. In any case, enjoy. Sweetfreek 09:57, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I dunno...are all those pics really neccisary? Frankly, I think too much was made about the different colored Ravens as it is. --InShaneee 19:47, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know of they are necessary or not, but let's let them there. --Neigel von Teighen 00:09, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Raven in 'Day of Vengeance'?
It says in The Spectre article that sometime in the Day of Vengeance storyline The Spectre made Raven unable to control her powers properly anymore. It doesn't say anything about that in the Raven article for some reason. Would someone who knows something about that please explain in the Raven article? -Unknown —Preceding unsigned comment added by Evernut (talk • contribs)

Well, to be honest, it was his weakening of the magical system of the DCU that caused her powers to fade and go haywire, so it wasn't the Spectre specifically. Though as you noticed, I added a part about her powers, I guess we'll see in the mini-series the extent of them if they returned to full strength or not. Coyote42 00:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up. :-) Evernut 15:23, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, it was The Spectre that caused the magical system to weaken, I think, when he was on his conquest to destroy all magic.

Is Raven a princess?
Trigon is the ruler of an entire dimension... while I haven't specifically heard him called a King, he effectively is, making Raven a princess. In the comics I believe he offered to let her come and rule with him, I'll have to see if he makes the reference to 'princess'. I ask this because I'd like to include her in my list of warrior princesses. Thoughts? Tyciol 18:05, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that's a little too much of a stretch. Anyway, she did renounce her father. --InShaneee 18:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It would render something like Lady Raven... as Lord Vader?? --Neigel von Teighen 21:27, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, in the series, Arella did mention this: "You forever had the love of your people, Raven, even knowing what you would become—and what that would bring." --User:Angie Y.
 * Technically, Raven is a demi-goddess, born of a human mother (Arella) and a demon-god father (Trigon)-User:Sh@z@m
 * Wouldn't she actually be a half-demon? Admittedly having a half-demon as a good guy is counter-intuitive, but I'd always thought of Trigon as more of a demon than an evil god. --Tim4christ17 20:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, she is a half-demon. Trigon saw her as a goddess, as she was his daughter, but that's solely because of his point of view. - TalonTheater

"To meet Wikipedia's quality standards, this article or section may require cleanup"
No kidding. I'm not going to make wholesale changes to the page without discussing it here first. But the "enemies" section is basically half of her character history. And the fact that there's more text on her skittles robes than the Trigon stories does not reflect well on the article. I do not see this newer organization as being progress, it was actually clearer as just one section that was simply in chronological order, without trying to organize stories by her wardrobe. Propose: 1.  Move ALL the stuff on "Powers" to the very bottom, right before "Trivia". 2. Make a "Character history" section, place it right after or right before "personality". Put all the "Multiple colors of Raven" "Enemies" and "After Trigon stuff in it. 3. Break up the "Character History" section into three sections: Before the coming of Trigon (Nevermore stuff, Malchior, Terra, etc.), Trigon, and After Trigon.  I think it would help make the page look a lot clearer.D1Puck1T 05:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll do anything you want. This article overwhelms me on top of all the other stuff I'm working on, but it needs to be fixed. If you want to tell me what to do, I'll do it, but I'm no Raven expert. --Chris Griswold 06:37, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I can do it, it's really just moving text around. But it's a big enough change that I want to give people some time to raise any objections first.  A lot of the damage that (I believe) has been done to this article could have been avoided by people discussing their big changes here before implimenting them.D1Puck1T 15:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I say do it D1Puck, and your plan sounds like a good one. If you need any help, please feel free to drop a note on my talk page. -Markeer 02:05, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Relationships
Yeah... about all this "brother, sister, etc." stuff. Unless someone can give me an episode where she actually says "I think of you as a brother/sister/etc." I'm going to delete that whole section. Near as I can tell, it's entirely made up of people's interpretations of her relationships, and not on anything actually stated.


 * Please do. --InShaneee 21:08, 16 June 2006 (UTC)