Talk:Ravidassia sect

Requested edit
Problem in the article is that section gotra is unsourced and is not adhering to wikipedia guidelines. This section is creating a edit war and COI unless when we dont have independent primary resource for this section problem will continue. Sehmeet singh Talk  08:45, 13 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Please discuss that here, and work towards consensus.  Chzz  ► 02:42, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Gotra
Hi,

Gotra are sorted by name, Noting deleted. --120.56.188.57 (talk) 08:22, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Gotras
To CiscoManager

Ahir, Aheer - is a caste.

Banga - Gotra of Sainis of Punjab.

Birdi, Kaler, Kataria, Parmar, Sahota - Gotras of Jats and Rajputs.

Lemme know if you have References of these gotras to add in Ravidassia. --120.56.177.34 (talk) 03:01, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

To Anonymous Deleters
Aheer/Ahir is a common last name/gotra of Chamars from the Hoshiarpur region.

Banga & Bangers: Is a common last name/gotra of Chamars from the Hoshiarpur region. Banga is also a small city name.

Birdi/Kaler/Kataria/Parmar/Sohota are also common last name/gotras of Chamars. These are overlapping surnames with many castes of punjab including Jats, Rajputs and Gujjars, Ramgharias, Ramdasias etc.

There are many gotras that are found in several different castes of punjab. Since Chamar is a occupational castes, members in this caste in different regions/villages were traditionally other caste members who took up leather-working occupation. This does not mean that they lose their original gotra.

If you are deleting, then you need to provide references.

CiscoManager (talk) 13:12, 8 June 2011 (UTC)bal537

Here is one reference: Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province, By H.A. Rose, IBBETSON, Maclagan

Page 150: "The gots or sections of the Chamars are very numerous and some of them are very large. They include the Chauhan and Bhatti gots and Badhan, Batoi, Bhatti, Ghameri, Hir, Jal, Kathana, Mahmi, Phundwal, Sindhu" — Preceding unsigned comment added by CiscoManager (talk • contribs) 14:07, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Lacking source
Please provide source and reference to relation with sikhism. Beliefs are not part of encyclopedia. PLEASE DO READ WP:NOTOPINION WP:NRVE Sehmeet singh  Talk  05:11, 28 July 2011 (UTC) hi please provide source to ravidasia gotra. Its very strange some of ravidasia caste belongs to jats, khatris. thanks  Sehmeet singh  Talk  18:05, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Nothing strange since it indicates that Chamars are a heterogenous group composed of various other castes of the local area. See wikipedia article Chamar

There are more than 1000 Chamar subcastes or gots. Many of the these subclans originated from the local regions from a mixture of the local population and this is some sub-caste names showing the region names such as Azamgarhiya Banaudhiya, Kalkattiya, Ujjaini, Saksena, Chandariya, Guliya, Aharwar, and Jhusiya, are specifically local; while other sub-caste names, such as, Gangapari, Purabiya, Uttaraha, and Dakkhinaha, point to definite geographical origins.[1]

Many of the sub-caste names indicate that the caste has received large recruitments from higher castes above. For example Chamar sub-castes such as Banaudhiya,Ujjaini,Chandhariya, Sarwariya, Kandujiya, Chauhan, Chandel, Saksena, Sakarwar, Bhadarauriya, and Bundela are names of Rajput clans and indicate higher caste group members who have moved down the social structure.[1]

Another major Chamar subcaste: the Jatiya and Jatav indicate Jat origin since members of this caste are of a higher physical type than some other sub-castes and of lighter complexion. The explanation in his case may be that some occupational demand drew Jats into this lower form of work or more likely, that some pressure or penalty resulted in their degradation.[1]

On the other hand, there have been large accessions to the caste from castes that are considered to be lower than the Chamars in the caste system. Got and sub-caste names show that many Chamars have sprung from the Dom, the Kanjar, the Habura, the Koli, the Jaiswar and other casteless tribes. This movement of peoples upwards through successive stages is a well-known phenomenon.[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bal537 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

bal537bal537 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bal537 (talk • contribs) 16:29, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * thats good explanation but can you provide proof source for these gotras in the article as they have no inline citation see WP:citation Sehmeet singh  Talk  07:25, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

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IT IS WRONG TO ASSUME THAT CHAMARS IMPERSONATE OTHER CASTES AND USE THEIR GOTRAS. CHAMARS GOTRAS ARE THERE SINCE ANCIENT TIMES AND IT IS NOT ANYTHING NEW COPIED FROM OTHER CASTES.GOTRA IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR CHAMARS AS IT IS THE BASIS FOR SOLEMNISING MARRIAGES. CHAMARS, ESPECIALLY IN HARYANA, WESTERN U.P ETC. AVOID GOTRAS OF SELF, THE MOTHER, AND THE GRAND MOTHER AND CAN NOT MARRY IN THESE THREE GOTRAS ON WHATSOEVER BE THE GROUND OR COMPULSION. IF OTHER CASTES WANT CHAMARS TO FORGET THEIR GOTRAS, IT WOULD BE A GREAT SIN AS BY DOING SO THEY WILL NOT KNOW WHTHER THEY ARE MARRYING IN THEIR GOTRA OR OTHERS. FOR CHAMARS GOTI NAATI BHAI BHAI,' AND BAAKI SAB COULD BE ASHNAI.' SOME CHAMARS SEEMS TO BE USING IMPROVED BUT SIMILIAR SYNNONYMOUS GOTRA NAMES SUCH AS MEHRA IN PLACE OF MEHARIA OR MEHARDIA WHICH ALSO CONVEY THE SAME MEANING. AS SUCH THERE IS NO DEVIATION AND THIS COULD BE LITTLE BIT CHANGE FROM ORIGINAL LOCAL DILECT WORDS TO IMPROVED HINDI OR SOME OTHER LANGUAGE. THIS IS A KIND OF SHIFT FROM LOCAL LANGUAGE E.G FROM HARYANAVI OR RAJASTHANI TO POPULAR HINDI OR PUNJABI NAMES. BUT ONLY VERY FEW PEOPLE HAVE IMPROVED THAT MANNER WHILE MOST OF OTHERS USE THEIR ORIGINAL GOTRA NAMES ONLY. BUT AT THE TIME OF COMPARING GOTRAS FOR MARRIAGE PURPOSE THEY TAKE UTMOST CARE AND INSIST FOR ORIGINAL GOTRA NAMES IF THERE IS A CONFUSION.--comments by Odinel

12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)12:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.177.1.216 (talk)